OK - Donald 'Joe' Neff, 61, Poteau, 14 May 2009 - #1

[Vegas Bride]

Did you mention earlier that some of the posters that had been put up around the area have been taken down?
Would there be any way you could find out who is taking down the posters? Perhaps have them in places where a security camera is near and could catch them on tape?
Has there been much news coverage done on the murder? Could you contact local/state news people to get more coverage and advertise the reward? Also, what about getting a tip line set up?

VB

 

[Roselvr]

3. go behind back side of bar to the old or new Wister hwy. then you could get on the bypass and it turns into 112.

I'm not understanding this one.
Can you tell me if I have the bar location right; what I mean is the pointer on the map?

We just are not sure. If he was in the back of a truck how could no one see him all the way to Pocola? If he was bleeding surely they would not have put him in the trunk of a car.
If this was not premeditated then why would the killer already have a gun-with them-loaded and something to tie him up with or cover him with? this sounds planned to me.I liked the scenario of maybe dad noticed someone had broken into the bar and was going to confront them but would he have not told anyone? Wouldn't the le have found records if he had talked to someone suspicious. I still cannot believe that anyone could out wit him, he was just too smart, too careful, and too cautious. More than anyone I know, he was always aware of all his surroundings.
I honestly cannot come up with one good suspect. None of it make any sense. I know I always wonder if my kids and I are safe. Apparently they know dad, do they know us too? Will they kill again? Scary thought.....

The more I look at the maps; the more I wonder what happened.
That's a fairly long ride with a body; my guess is that someone had a cap on the pick up truck bed or it was a car and he was in the trunk. Could have also been an SUV; mine (Mazda Tribute) has a piece of fabric you pull to cover what's in the back. I guess it would be easy for me to haul a bleeding body as I have a plastic molded mat back there.

i sure do miss this face......

Your dad was a very good looking man.
When I see his pictures; it breaks my heart that he was taken from you. He has such a kind face; his smile looks like it lights up a room.
If a picture could talk, it would say what a wonderful; caring man he was.
Every picture I've seen of him; it glows with his energy; if that makes sense.

This was such a senseless killing; knowing your dad's background, makes it even more senseless. One wonders if there is more to this; someone was going to hurt someone else and your dad got in the middle of it; they panicked.

This is going to be such a rough time for you with the holidays. I'm sure it's already started at least a few weeks ago; where your heart just feels like it's going to break wide open.

With what I have read about your dad; I think he'd want you to try to have as good of a holiday as you can; and try to see that he is right next to you & your family at this time.

I've told you about losing my dad. The 1st Christmas without him (2006) was very hard because we knew his last Christmas (2005) would probably be his last. There were things that happened on that Christmas that we all knew he was there. I 1st noticed it when I put my Christmas music on; it started with "Blue Christmas" by Anne & Nancy Wilson. What was weird was that there were all of my "A Very Special Christmas" total of 4 or 5 CD's; and that was the song it chose to start the shuffle with.

There was something else that made the kids know he was here; it had something to do with the Hess trucks we bought; which was normally what my dad gave my kids. I'd put them way under the tree, all the way in the back corner; you couldn't even see them. Something happened where they ended up moving.

My dad has come to me in other ways. I can sit here on the computer and start missing him; or start crying about what's going on with my hubby now & my computers (I run 2) and cell phone will start freaking out. My cell started rebooting; same for the computer. The phone on my desk will vibrate for no reason. There is no vibrate setting on the phone. The fax machine will start cycling. There is significance in what happens - he used to specialize in car wiring. We also were going to build computers when he got better.

After we moved into this new house (had to move away from my old town cause dad lived 7 blocks away) I found a snake (tiny) in my basement. I've since found 3 snakes this year alone; thankfully only one other one inside; but they were times I was down. My dad used to have my son's plastic snake on his front dashboard - my son now has it in his car. I did not put the snake together with my dad until after the 2nd one.

Also things like greeting cards - I will look for something and find a card that has something to do with making me feel better.

It's going to be 4 years that my dad is gone. While I miss him every day; the pain is not as bad & intense as it was the first 2+ years.

Basically, if you look, you will see. Open your heart & mind and you will see/feel your dad with you.

Also know that you are not alone. Your dad was loved by so many people; that has to fill your heart with some joy; hopefully it eases the pain some for you. It used to for me. There was a tree lighting ceremony in the town my dad owned a gas station in - he was one of the honorees. There was a cop (killed in line of duty) Judge (passed away) and my dad. My dad devoted his life to that town and the rescue squad. My dad's dedication was the longest; I felt so proud. It was a very hard ceremony; I started crying early & could not stop. The next day, I woke to an email from the lady that did the dedication; she'd sent me a copy of her speech. It was beautifully written.

(((HUGS)))


.

 

[Roselvr]

Newbie avatar

btw, you can upload a photo of your dad and use it as your avatar.
This is a pic of me & my dad, his last Christmas. He was 69 when he passed away. The cancer made him appear 15 years older

 

[wfgodot]

After reading through the thread twice, I keep going back to the fact that the sheriff said he found and removed $740 from Mr. Neff's shirt pocket, and also said that this wasn't a robbery---that this was personal.

Whomever left that kind of money in a dead man's pocket had to have wanted it to be discovered when the body was found. And, though they chose to move the body from the bar, they did dump it in a strip pit where it was found days later---they were familiar with the place and that means they knew that the body would eventually be discovered.

They wanted it to be discovered. Just not immediately.

So what does this say? They bought themselves some time, yes, but also they wanted to make a $740 statement to others who were associates of either the murderer(s) or Mr. Neff, or both: this wasn't about money; money won't save you. (And therefore, watch what you say about not only the murder, but the events leading up to the murder---whatever it turns out to be that caused the murder.)

The caveat here is with OK LE. A big portion of the population, at least in eastern OK, does not trust their LE. So some have problems with believing information released by LE in the first place. And there's a long list of unsolved cases in this part of the state.

Okay, that's my two cents.

 

[YellowDog]

After reading through the thread twice, I keep going back to the fact that the sheriff said he found and removed $740 from Mr. Neff's shirt pocket, and also said that this wasn't a robbery---that this was personal.

Whomever left that kind of money in a dead man's pocket had to have wanted it to be discovered when the body was found. And, though they chose to move the body from the bar, they did dump it in a strip pit where it was found days later---they were familiar with the place and that means they knew that the body would eventually be discovered.

They wanted it to be discovered. Just not immediately.

So what does this say? They bought themselves some time, yes, but also they wanted to make a $740 statement to others who were associates of either the murderer(s) or Mr. Neff, or both: this wasn't about money; money won't save you. (And therefore, watch what you say about not only the murder, but the events leading up to the murder---whatever it turns out to be that caused the murder.)

The caveat here is with OK LE. A big portion of the population, at least in eastern OK, does not trust their LE. So some have problems with believing information released by LE in the first place. And there's a long list of unsolved cases in this part of the state.

Okay, that's my two cents.

I doubt that the people who committed this murder even knew he had the money in his shirt pocket. Most people don't carry that kind of money loose in a shirt pocket. If they cleaned out his safe, they probably thought they had all the major cash.

 

[wfgodot]

I doubt that the people who committed this murder even knew he had the money in his shirt pocket. Most people don't carry that kind of money loose in a shirt pocket. If they cleaned out his safe, they probably thought they had all the major cash.

Mr. Neff was evidently known for being a person who had money on his person at all times, willing to lend it to anyone he felt needed it, and was a good risk to pay it back (see post #102 ["he was an atm for many"], #170 ["he did always carry money in his shirt pocket too and it was not strange to carry that much"] et al.). The crime appears to have been personal, and, if so, this would have been known by the person or persons who committed it.

Perhaps in some worlds people walk away from easily available cash, but, here in Oklahoma, they do not. As for the safe, your last sentence contains a big "if" and large "probably."

 

[missingmydad]

I am goona answer the question about the directions to the bar. There is a road that leads from hwy 59 right beside the bar, around it and then goes up behind it, and will lead you to the Old Wister Hwy. Or you can pass the Old Wister Hwy and keep going about 1 more mile and go to the new hwy. If you hit the new hwy turn right then you just drive until you get to the bypass just a couple of minutes. Then hop on bypass going north and you could stay on it all the way to Pocola.

 

[missingmydad]

did you mention earlier that some of the posters that had been put up around the area have been taken down?
Would there be any way you could find out who is taking down the posters? Perhaps have them in places where a security camera is near and could catch them on tape?
Has there been much news coverage done on the murder? Could you contact local/state news people to get more coverage and advertise the reward? Also, what about getting a tip line set up?

Vb

i think that since there are so many posters being taken down that it is just the teens or whatever that clean the windows. After awhile i guess they just get tired of cleaning around them. I bet they would not mind if it was their dad. I have talked with le about this issue and basically since they are doing us a favor by allowing us to hang posters, we cannot get mad when they take them down. Sad huh? I actually have been interviewed on the news 3 or 4 times. I call them every month and update and they come out and do a story. They called me last time since the fbi and us marshals entered into the case. The tip line is the sheriffs office and the osbi hotline. So i do not know what else to do on that. I sure wish nancy grace could catch wind of this story. I have emailed her and everyone else with an email address but it has to go through their legal department. So i guess it may take a while. If anyone out there has any connections with anyone let me know and i will give them the info they need to do they story, along with all the phone numbers to the osbi etc. So nancy grace, or diane sawyer, john walsh, if anyone of you out there are reading this please i am so serious, i am begging for help. Thank you and god bless each and every one of you that have taken your time to read this to help out for my dad. I can't thank you enough.

 

[Debbie Miller]

If this was not premeditated then why would the killer already have a gun-with them-loaded and something to tie him up with or cover him with? this sounds planned to me.I liked the scenario of maybe dad noticed someone had broken into the bar and was going to confront them but would he have not told anyone? Wouldn't the le have found records if he had talked to someone suspicious. I still cannot believe that anyone could out wit him, he was just too smart, too careful, and too cautious. More than anyone I know, he was always aware of all his surroundings.
I honestly cannot come up with one good suspect. None of it make any sense. I know I always wonder if my kids and I are safe. Apparently they know dad, do they know us too? Will they kill again? Scary thought.....

As far as Premeditation, I say yes. I don't think your dad was going to confront someone about breaking into the bar, if someone broke into the bar, wouldn't LE have found that when looking for evidence when they came up on the crime scene?

Your dad talking to anyone suspicious, are you referring to on the phone or outside the establishment or inside in cameras view. I would only hope they have gone over both with a fine tooth comb. Hopefully the cameras had film and were turned on.

You say that your dad was cautious and aware of his surroundings, this kind of leads me to believe that the person responsible for taking your dad's life is someone he trusted and was comfortable around especially with the fact that there were no defense wounds.

Sometimes the most obvious is the least expected. I think you and LE needs to look at ones you least expect.

 

[YellowDog]

Perhaps in some worlds people walk away from easily available cash, but, here in Oklahoma, they do not. As for the safe, your last sentence contains a big "if" and large "probably."

I am from Oklahoma and I have no problem walking away from easily available cash. You make it sound like everyone in the state of Oklahoma is a criminal and I find your statement to be ridiculous.

My last sentence did contain an "if" and a "probably" because I am only putting my thoughts out there. I, nor you, do not know what happened.

 

[Soulmagent]

I read a book in which this case reminds me. Murder in Maybury. The woman who was murdered had alot of similar traits that is has been stated Joe Neff had.
The book is a true story account of Ann Brasons murder. She was wealthy and loaned family memebers money often. She was close with her family with no known emenies. Owned her own bussiness.
The method of murder is very different but the desciptions of the victims are very much alike.

 

[rccook555]

BBM
Did I miss something? Where did this info come from?

I have found a bit of info but i am checking with Tricia before posting it. I do not want to violate tos.

 

[rccook555]

I have found a bit of info but i am checking with Tricia before posting it. I do not want to violate tos.

Ok, after speaking with Tricia i am not going to post any info or the g/f name. Her name has not been mentioned any where in print , nor has she been named as a suspect. I do not want to violate tos. If Tricia decides it is relevant to the case i will post her initials and the info. Until then, i am sure some good sluething could figure out who she is. Sorry all!

 

[Wudge]

This is from Topix - one of the Jody posts - They said that Joe's arms were taped and that they are not sure about his legs.

~snip~

Jimmy wrote:
What I didn't say, and what I was trying to say is that both Joe and Jodie's murders involve these two mountain ranges. That's one simialarity right there. But,was Jody brought there or lured there? Big difference.

I would have to say brought there, considering the Me thinks she was dead when left on top of the mountain, but those are good questions and Joe arms (not sure about the legs) were taped and he was shot in the head. I believe one of his relatives that was on this site not too many pages ago, wondered why he was taped after he was killed.... don't understand that one myself either.

I had asked early on if his hands were tied. If so, I believe it's very unlikely that he was killed in his bar.

His truck was found at the bar as was his hat. Bar robbers would have no real need to remove a bartender or owner's dead body from their bar.

It would seem more natural to think there was a fight at the bar that knocked Joe's hat to the ground, and he was subdued and his hands (or arms) were taped. He is then taken in the criminal's vehicle (red pick-up truck?) to Joe's home where they force him to help them open the safe. The contents are removed and they drive Joe to the strip mine area where he is murdered. And the rain washes away any potential tire tracks that might otherwise have been found.

 

[Debbie Miller]

I had asked early on if his hands were tied. If so, I believe it's very unlikely that he was killed in his bar.

His truck was found at the bar as was his hat. Bar robbers would have no real need to remove a bartender or owner's dead body from their bar.

It would seem more natural to think there was a fight at the bar that knocked Joe's hat to the ground, and he was subdued and his hands (or arms) were taped. He is then taken in the criminal's vehicle (red pick-up truck?) to Joe's home where they force him to help them open the safe. The contents are removed and they drive Joe to the strip mine area where he is murdered. And the rain washes away any potential tire tracks that might otherwise have been found.

Good Scenerio- but how do you explain that Joe was still coherent enough to help the robbers open the safe when there was alot of blood at the bar. The police probably didn't emphasize what the amount of blood meant when they said "alot of blood". There are certain things LE won't say and for specific reasons, mainly because only the killer will know those certain things.

JMO

 

[missingmydad]

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2009/05/23/obituaries/all_obituaries/obits05.txt

I ran across this earlier and I didn't know if it was already posted on here. This really tells a lot about my dad. The kind of person he was and what he loved. I still do not think dad ever came back to his house. We found no blood anywhere. Just my opinion. I think they might have exchanged info via cell phones. That way the driver could already be in route to the strip pit. But this is my opinion only, and it has never amounted to anything before now. Thank you all for your ideas. Please keep 'em comin'!!!!

 

[yosande]

and they knew his routine and when to catch him alone, i never thought his hours were that predictable, but he did go get the bar ready to open every day. but the time he showed up varied

Because the timeline is so tight, it seems to me that someone did know his routine and was waiting for him.

I also read there was signs of a scuffle, so he fought the perp.

Do you know if he would lock the door after entering when first arriving, and unlock the door for the early customer, and other staff, or just leave it unlocked upon arrival?

Since he fought for his life, it sure seems to me the perp's dna and blood would have also been found at the scene. Have LE ever said he was murdered there?

Do you know if any blood was found in his home, especially around the safe?

Did he drive to work, and where was his auto located?

How far, in minutes, and distance is his house from the bar?

Did his gf live with him at his house, if not, is her residence far from the bar or house, and in which direction?

Did he ever fish near or around where he was located?

Did he know and get along with the owner of the strip pit where he was located?

Thinking back to that time, can you think of anyone who wasn't seen for a week or two after May 14, or who looked as though they had been in a fight, but said they were in a car accident, or had some other excuse for the bruises, and scratches on face and hands?

Did anyone say they had gone on vacation, a camping trip, etc after May 14, and returned late May, or early June?


tia.

 

[yosande]

i wonder if dad got into safe everyday, it may have been broken into days before but that would be risky too, had he found it before, but then they could have left him alive. i just do not understand. even if it was or was not for money they could have left him alive, he would have gave them all the money or whatever. he was just too nice. i do not know about him holding something for someone. he was too smart to hve something illegal there he would have made an excuse as to why he couldn't hold it, he was not a stupid man. that is why this is so scary, he was the SMARTEST MAN I KNEW, he was too careful i cannot believe anyone could have snuck up and done this to him. he always paid attention to everything and everyone. he taught me to always be aware of what is going on around you, how did they do this without him suspecting something?

bbm, if it was someone he knew and trusted?

 

[yosande]

Plus taking the body away to another location is taking a giant chance of being 'found out'. Why not just leave the body, unless it might lead to a suspect?

I don't know height and weight, but moving a live person is far easier than one who is deceased, and the timeline is 10 am, last seen to 11:45 am when the crime scene was found. The fight, and blood was found somewhere in the bar, I don't know where, at the door, or somewhere further inside?

Is there a back entrance where something could be loaded into a truck without being seen from the road?

Were there signs indicating someone unconscience was drug across a floor that would indicate the murder took place at the bar?

It's difficult to accept that he died inside the bar, and was then moved.
That doesn't make sense to me, unless he was killed at the door entrance. jmo

 

[yosande]

The Broadway address is the main highway going through Poteau. The Country Club address was dads. It was probably my dads old shop address.
I know there are a lot of people that would have known that dad got the bar ready to open everyday, but everyone liked dad. He was friends with everyone, I cannot believe that anyone would have gotten mad enough to kill him. It just does not seem real. There are no enemies that I know of.
I am not sure which way they drove to the strip pit. There are 3 or 4 ways. 1. the hwy 59 to broadway going north, then east on hwy 112 to Pocola. 2. go south after leaving bar on hwy 59 turn on hwy 83 go east and go back way through Monroe, Gilmore, and Cameron, then onto 112 to Pocola. 3. go behind back side of bar to the old or new Wister hwy. then you could get on the bypass and it turns into 112. We just are not sure. If he was in the back of a truck how could no one see him all the way to Pocola? If he was bleeding surely they would not have put him in the trunk of a car.
If this was not premeditated then why would the killer already have a gun-with them-loaded and something to tie him up with or cover him with? this sounds planned to me.I liked the scenario of maybe dad noticed someone had broken into the bar and was going to confront them but would he have not told anyone? Wouldn't the le have found records if he had talked to someone suspicious. I still cannot believe that anyone could out wit him, he was just too smart, too careful, and too cautious. More than anyone I know, he was always aware of all his surroundings.
I honestly cannot come up with one good suspect. None of it make any sense. I know I always wonder if my kids and I are safe. Apparently they know dad, do they know us too? Will they kill again? Scary thought.....

Did your dad own a gun and keep one at the bar?

Since there was a fight in the bar, do you think the perp fought with your dad, and then remembered he had a gun?
Do you think if someone held him up with a gun, would he lunge at them or go willingly?


Did your dad usually carry money in his shirt pocket, and that much money?

Is there a reason why he would have been carrying that much money before the bar opened?

That's a lot of change for a register, and if it was change, it would be bulky enough to notice, so WHY was he carryng that much money in his pocket, and what were the denominations? Was he going to meet someone and loan them that money?

You said he loaned money to people all the time, how did those transactions usually transpire, ie, in private or public settings, for what purpose.


I think the answer may just be in the money in his pocket.

I think your dad knew the perp, and had an appointment to meet him/her that morning to loan them that cash.

Is it possible that your dad discovered something about someone he was going to loan money to, and your dad confronted him/her to encourage him/her to do the right thng, like turn himself into LE, such as embezzlement? moo