Things That Make You Go "Hmmmmm . . ."

[DairyGirl]

I think this is a plausible theory that could be explored --
Wasn't there a discrepancy between where the bus was to end up, and where EJ ended up?
She could have taken him on that bus, and maybe that is why she took that particular bus? IDK
She could have taken him to some couple in Florida, for instance?
We do not know yet what she did between the 27th and and 29th or 30th--
That's another date I see conflicting reports on--was she arrested in FL on the 29th or 30th? I have seen both as I research through media for LE statements

I think we need to think about this, as perhaps the stay in SA was an attempt to cover their tracks? All we know about SA is what EJ has said, right?

They do have a video of her walking alone from the Motel 6 parking on the 27th, the last day she was in SA, but maybe she had help there?

I am pretty sure she was arrested on the 30th because that was the last date she signed onto My Space.

 

[not_my_kids]

I am pretty sure she was arrested on the 30th because that was the last date she signed onto My Space.

Edit - Never mind, I was wrong, it was the 30th, my dumb self was actually looking at something from the Prime Writer's Network, I know better. My apologies. Feel free to trout me now.

 

[DaneBramage]

Great input everybody, and this has me thinking.

What if the exchange took place at the Bus Terminal? EJ gets on one bus and the person with Gabriel gets on another (or in a car). EJ and the baby go in different directions?

Something like a reverse play in football.

 

[DairyGirl]

Great input everybody, and this has me thinking.

What if the exchange took place at the Bus Terminal? EJ gets on one bus and the person with Gabriel gets on another. EJ and the baby go in different directions?

Something like a reverse play in football.

Why would the adoptive parents bring their own car seat? Of course EJ could have been lieing about that, too.

 

[not_my_kids]

We know that Gabriel was photographed on December 26th, 2009. At that point he was in what we assume was EJ's hotel room.
What if it wasn't? What if the whole thing was staged to look like her room? The pictures in prominent display...it almost looks like when you dress a home for sale, that the occupants are still in. Keep it clean, but let it be a little homey, a little lived in. We can't assume that was her room...especially if we choose to believe the babysitter. Maybe those were her momento pics, and she chose to dress them with the pictures of her family in the background.
Hmmmm....

Also, the 26th to 11:45 a.m. the 27th when she pulled in and parked the car to get on the bus, that's a lot of time. She takes those photos in SA, knowing that LE will determine what hotel they were taken in and if they are date stamped, like LE says they are, then she had to have known they would easily fit into a timeline. So, what's to say she didn't take those pics, turn around drive 10 hours one way, dump him or hand him off and then drive back to SA where she gets on the bus. Does it make sense? no. Does anything? Likewise, no. Now, 10 hours with a good radar detector and a good strong of a beast of a car is almost halfway to MI from TX.
(I drove Laredo, TX to Grand Blanc, MI after I got the news that my brother was in the hospital after a seizure. Yes, I played hard and fast with a lot of speed limits, stopped a grand total of twice for anything besides gas and chugged a lot of Red Bull, but I made it in 22 hours, 17 minutes. I think EJ could make the same kind of time with the right motivation.)
Hmmmm

ETA: Also makes me wonder if the hotel room swap was the official plan...ever tried to print a hotel room? It's not an envious job and by the time they realized which prints were unknown, it would be months down the road.

 

[Krisy]

I was watching a show called, I almost got away with it. On the show, this man would buy a bus ticket to a location...BUT then he would get off half way there and hop a different bus to a different location to throw people off his trail.

Any chance EJ could have done something similar?

 

[captdj]

NMK...how needy do you think EJ was when she met TS...all she had to do was whine and TS took over the baby...all long story short for sure....so could someone else. Just because I bought a ticket without a infant in my arms, does not mean that child was not nearby....my theory is just that..You may be right about LE (although they have been very mute about it) but who knows about a video....and I'd bet the farm, and it is small no less, they DO know the number of adults/childrens and infants aboard...could be wrong...I'm a dumb hick with a frozen brain right now...

At motel 6 the manager talked about the the video and EJ sat in chair for about 5 minutes then exited the car and walked across the street to the bus terminal. No mention from the bus station or the hotel about a child....but its a really good thought and doesnt hurt to look at bus stations for Gabriel leaving and going another direction on this bus or any bus...

Another Hmmmm for me is why did she get another hotel room for 12/26 when she had a paid one next door....
I think this day/ or night was the beginning of a new life....so she thought

 

[not_my_kids]

At motel 6 the manager talked about the the video and EJ sat in chair for about 5 minutes then exited the car and walked across the street to the bus terminal. No mention from the bus station or the hotel about a child....but its a really good thought and doesnt hurt to look at bus stations for Gabriel leaving and going another direction on this bus or any bus...

Another Hmmmm for me is why did she get another hotel room for 12/26 when she had a paid one next door....
I think this day/ or night was the beginning of a new life....so she thought

BBM
Stage dressing?

 

[captdj]

We know that Gabriel was photographed on December 26th, 2009. At that point he was in what we assume was EJ's hotel room.
What if it wasn't? What if the whole thing was staged to look like her room? The pictures in prominent display...it almost looks like when you dress a home for sale, that the occupants are still in. Keep it clean, but let it be a little homey, a little lived in. We can't assume that was her room...especially if we choose to believe the babysitter. Maybe those were her momento pics, and she chose to dress them with the pictures of her family in the background.
Hmmmm....

Also, the 26th to 11:45 a.m. the 27th when she pulled in and parked the car to get on the bus, that's a lot of time. She takes those photos in SA, knowing that LE will determine what hotel they were taken in and if they are date stamped, like LE says they are, then she had to have known they would easily fit into a timeline. So, what's to say she didn't take those pics, turn around drive 10 hours one way, dump him or hand him off and then drive back to SA where she gets on the bus. Does it make sense? no. Does anything? Likewise, no. Now, 10 hours with a good radar detector and a good strong of a beast of a car is almost halfway to MI from TX.
(I drove Laredo, TX to Grand Blanc, MI after I got the news that my brother was in the hospital after a seizure. Yes, I played hard and fast with a lot of speed limits, stopped a grand total of twice for anything besides gas and chugged a lot of Red Bull, but I made it in 22 hours, 17 minutes. I think EJ could make the same kind of time with the right motivation.)
Hmmmm

ETA: Also makes me wonder if the hotel room swap was the official plan...ever tried to print a hotel room? It's not an envious job and by the time they realized which prints were unknown, it would be months down the road.

Do we know what time she checked into Quality Inn on 12/26 this would eliminate some of the distance she could travel?

 

[Ives]

Not trying to discount the Theory that Gabe was on the bus, BUT EJ is White, she stuck out like a sore thumb, In my small world, my kids are half black, so they are Tan. and when I go to the grocery store, I mostly see hispanic babies, because of the area I am in. That said, I am always surprised how white my sisters children are when I see them every few months. So IMOO, I think a little white baby would have stuck out just as bad as EJ did. especially too hispanics, who work for that bus line, and see mostly hispanics board those buses.

The Guy that sold EJ the Ticket also stated that she was the ONLY white person on the bus. NOw can a hispanic baby be as white as a white baby? I am sure there are some, even some with blue eyes and blonde hair, so if he was on the bus, he could have just been thought to be hispanic, without further thought KWIM? also, this theory, would bring yet another person into the mix, and that person would be hispanic.

 

[OneLove]

You're not a dumb hick, you are attempting to come up with ideas that haven't hit a dead end yet, which doesn't strike me as dumb. (My brain is frozen too, happens for the 6 months that MI calls winter. :crazy
However, I don't think that EJ really was that needy. I think she had a plan with some holes in it and used Tammi to fill those holes. Master plan, EJ. Finesse and fine detail, Tammi. That said, I think it's possible. Not extremely plausible, but in all honesty, the idea that Gabe would still be alive in SA is not all that plausible, but we saw the proof. I think if there was video, LE has it. I will not allow myself to think that they messed up that bad, because if they did, Gabe is as good as gone, IMO. It is possible that someone bought a ticket, held Gabe on their lap and he was never recorded.
I would like to see some official statement that says that other riders and the driver and other terminals along the way have been contacted, but not seeing it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There is a glaring lack of info on this case. JMO.

I do believe when these two met up, it created the perfect storm of personality disorders.

I also am holding fast to the hope that LE knows much much more than we do.

I do believe when Tammi could not have Gabriel herself, she excused every action from that point on as "protecting that baby". Her every word and lie since then seems to back that up, until she started doing the cha-cha. (cover her arse). I believe her self-righteousness and belief that God approves HER lies while condemning her "detractors" as evil-doers supports that.

There MUST be a reason why LE continued for so long to say they believed Gabriel is alive. I want to believe there is more reason than coincidence that Jack's friend in SA was investigated, like maybe phone records showing some significant conversation between them during the time in question. I hope that friend is more loyal to the truth than to friends who lie. I also hope there are computer/phone records showing conversation with 'alternative' domestic violence 'shelters', maybe in Victoria, that will eventually pan out.

Personally, I believe in the early interview when Tammi is asked why she lied about the Craig Cherry fiasco, she said "just pray" and then referenced "protecting" someone; I believe that to be Gabriel. I believe every step she has taken she feels has the approval of God Almighty, along with the approval of a vast fundamentalist evangelical network of likeminded people. I believe these people will continue forever to tell Tammi, but not Logan, that "God knows right where that lil baby is" as a way to reinforce that she did the right thing. I am hoping that means that someone knows where Gabriel is and that he is being well-cared for.

I will continue to wait for the good news of Gabriel coming home, and hope that is soon. Blessings to Logan and his loving family.

This is my theory, all my opinion only, I'm certainly not implying that "God is on my side" to support it. :furious:

 

[not_my_kids]

Elizabeth is captured on surveillance video driving into the parking lot of the Motel 6 at approximately 11:45am.

Elizabeth sits in the car alone for approximately 5 to 15 minutes.

At approximately 12:00pm, Elizabeth walks across the street to a Tornado Bus station.

Elizabeth purchases a one way ticket to Fort Lauderdale FL for $180, using the false name 'Elizabeth Jones'.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4751820&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline - Sunday, December 27, 2009[/ame]

The above is taken from the timelines kept by BeanE (sleuther of the year, as far as I am concerned)
This seems that if she had Gabe in that car or he were with her at any part of the bus boarding....LE would have mentioned it. That's why I find it so highly unlikely that she handed him off at the bus station. They have video. If they had video of Gabe on the 27th, they wouldn't be telling the public that they have no proof of anything after the 26th. Not in a case where they have requested help.

 

[captdj]

I do believe when these two met up, it created the perfect storm of personality disorders.

I also am holding fast to the hope that LE knows much much more than we do.

I do believe when Tammi could not have Gabriel herself, she excused every action from that point on as "protecting that baby". Her every word and lie since then seems to back that up, until she started doing the cha-cha. (cover her arse). I believe her self-righteousness and belief that God approves HER lies while condemning her "detractors" as evil-doers supports that.

There MUST be a reason why LE continued for so long to say they believed Gabriel is alive. I want to believe there is more reason than coincidence that Jack's friend in SA was investigated, like maybe phone records showing some significant conversation between them during the time in question. I hope that friend is more loyal to the truth than to friends who lie. I also hope there are computer/phone records showing conversation with 'alternative' domestic violence 'shelters', maybe in Victoria, that will eventually pan out.

Personally, I believe in the early interview when Tammi is asked why she lied about the Craig Cherry fiasco, she said "just pray" and then referenced "protecting" someone; I believe that to be Gabriel. I believe every step she has taken she feels has the approval of God Almighty, along with the approval of a vast fundamentalist evangelical network of likeminded people. I believe these people will continue forever to tell Tammi, but not Logan, that "God knows right where that lil baby is" as a way to reinforce that she did the right thing. I am hoping that means that someone knows where Gabriel is and that he is being well-cared for.

I will continue to wait for the good news of Gabriel coming home, and hope that is soon. Blessings to Logan and his loving family.

This is my theory, all my opinion only, I'm certainly not implying that "God is on my side" to support it. :furious:

I have wondered about a regilious group protecting them also... and Tammi's fb message to Pray for Gabriel... who was that message written for....I found some references to a church in SA from Tammi FB friends

 

[TXHOPE]

Elizabeth is captured on surveillance video driving into the parking lot of the Motel 6 at approximately 11:45am.

Elizabeth sits in the car alone for approximately 5 to 15 minutes.

At approximately 12:00pm, Elizabeth walks across the street to a Tornado Bus station.

Elizabeth purchases a one way ticket to Fort Lauderdale FL for $180, using the false name 'Elizabeth Jones'.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline - Sunday, December 27, 2009

The above is taken from the timelines kept by BeanE (sleuther of the year, as far as I am concerned)
This seems that if she had Gabe in that car or he were with her at any part of the bus boarding....LE would have mentioned it. That's why I find it so highly unlikely that she handed him off at the bus station. They have video. If they had video of Gabe on the 27th, they wouldn't be telling the public that they have no proof of anything after the 26th. Not in a case where they have requested help.

While any theories are good to throw out there and appreciated I find this one highly unlikely as well. Why would they board a bus together only to separate? They might as well separate then and avoid a smaller chance of getting caught together. I don't think they would travel together.

 

[kissdegirl]

While any theories are good to throw out there and appreciated I find this one highly unlikely as well. Why would they board a bus together only to separate? They might as well separate then and avoid a smaller chance of getting caught together. I don't think they would travel together.

Anything goes, right? I still think the POI's went to SA, and the exchange took place in a park (that way they couldn't be caught lying on a polygraph...half-truths). I think they brought a carseat, and after the exhange, either they or EJ drove...perhaps to a truck stop, and may have tossed that phone onto a semi or pickup loaded with a haul of junk. You see those all over here in TX. I think of that nudge when interviewed about Victoria, and I still think it was an "see, it worked to throw them off" nudge. Like "I told you so TS" from JS. The POI could have left that day, the day EJ checked into the other hotel, so they would have a head start. As the father of "H" has said, and I have mentioned before, I think if they sent EJ East, we need to look West. It makes perfect sense to me that the POI would have gone back West, and hidden him nearby.

Of course, if they took him somewhere, they would need another carseat to show the media that they still have it...sooooo....I feel there is proof somewhere, maybe video or giftcard used for buying another seat for Gabriel...probably the one he has with Gabriel nowl, and the one they took to SA, the one in the pictures, they took back to their home to cover their arses. IMO.

 

[captdj]

Anything goes, right? I still think the POI's went to SA, and the exchange took place in a park (that way they couldn't be caught lying on a polygraph...half-truths). I think they brought a carseat, and after the exhange, either they or EJ drove...perhaps to a truck stop, and may have tossed that phone onto a semi or pickup loaded with a haul of junk. You see those all over here in TX. I think of that nudge when interviewed about Victoria, and I still think it was an "see, it worked to throw them off" nudge. Like "I told you so TS" from JS. The POI could have left that day, the day EJ checked into the other hotel, so they would have a head start. As the father of "H" has said, and I have mentioned before, I think if they sent EJ East, we need to look West. It makes perfect sense to me that the POI would have gone back West, and hidden him nearby.

Of course, if they took him somewhere, they would need another carseat to show the media that they still have it...sooooo....I feel there is proof somewhere, maybe video or giftcard used for buying another seat for Gabriel...probably the one he has with Gabriel nowl, and the one they took to SA, the one in the pictures, they took back to their home to cover their arses. IMO.

I wish we knew a little bit more about that phone.... how did Elizabeth Text Tammi on the 27th... Tammi states this is the day EJ went missing and that she wouldnt talk to her just communciated by texting...WHY??? who really doing the texting if the phone is not with Elizabeth??
Could Tammi/LE determine from the text its source...was it from EJ s phone? Then when she was in Miami they communicated by myspace...
Somehow this way of communicating has me stumped and is important and has reason.... JMO

 

[BeanE]

I wish we knew a little bit more about that phone.... how did Elizabeth Text Tammi on the 27th... Tammi states this is the day EJ went missing and that she wouldnt talk to her just communciated by texting...WHY??? who really doing the texting if the phone is not with Elizabeth??
Could Tammi/LE determine from the text its source...was it from EJ s phone? Then when she was in Miami they communicated by myspace...
Somehow this way of communicating has me stumped and is important and has reason.... JMO

Personally, I don't think Eliz texted, called, or contacted anyone after her texts and call to Logan on Dec 27 until she arrived in Miami Beach on Dec 29 and used a computer at the hostel.

JOSTAD: Well, also, Tammi, were you exchanging any kind of messages, whether it was e-mails, IMs, FaceBook messages? Were you in contact with Elizabeth Johnson during that time after she left San Antonio?

SMITH: Yes. Like, I`ve got some MySpace here. You know, December 29th, I say, I believe in my heart that you would never hurt him, but detectives have recordings — your reporting (ph) that you killed the baby. And it says, We are also distraught. We love Gabriel and you. And it goes on to talk about, The lead detective of this case really feels for you and he wants to help you. You can call Detective Aguilera (ph), and it gives his phone number. He truly wants to help you.

I think in the beginning Tammi thought she could convince everyone of certain lies, and as LE found her out, and it's been exposed in the press, she became more truthful, and that her later statements are closer to the truth.

She couldn't maintain, e.g., that she heard Gabe on the phone on Dec 27, or that Eliz had texted her after texting/calling Logan. So bit by bit she's dropped out little snippets of more truthful information, such as that above, which looks to me like her way of admitting that it was actually Dec 29, and not Dec 27, that Eliz texted her that she had not harmed Gabe.

Not sure I explained my thoughts clearly - need my second cup.

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

New story on fox news:
"According to an eyewitness Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, was in the company of a Hispanic male in his mid to late 20's at least 2 times. The witness also tells us that during one of those meetings a couple in their late 30's was also with them."

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsro...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[kissdegirl]

Video
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml

Who Did Baby Gabriel's Mother Meet With While In San Antonio
New details in the search for Baby Gabriel Johnson have been uncovered by Fox News at Nine. According to an eyewitness Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, was in the company of a Hispanic male in his mid to late 20's at least 2 times. The witness also tells us that during one of those meetings a couple in their late 30's was also with them.
Federal and Local authorities have not given new information in the case. San Antonio Police Chief William McManus says that so far this investigation is still a missing person case. Who Did Baby Gabriel's Mother Meet With While In San Antonio Monday, February 1 2010, 09:55 AM CST

 

[kissdegirl]

New story on fox news:
"According to an eyewitness Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, was in the company of a Hispanic male in his mid to late 20's at least 2 times. The witness also tells us that during one of those meetings a couple in their late 30's was also with them."

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsro...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

oops...we posted at the same time.

I wonder if this is going to be acknowledged by LE? Very very interesting if true!