NY NY - Irondequoit, WhtFem 14-23, 122UFNY, skeletal in shallow grave, front teeth overlap, Jul'88

[believe09]

I am pondering the home ownership records and when the house was built-burying someone in a shallow grave at the edge of somone's property is pretty cheeky. Let me see if there are any good records online..

 

[believe09]

No luck for online records that I can see. I think the key to the case has to be the fillings-gold foils require quite a bit of skill in the dentist and they are very very expensive. She had 4 teeth with the foils=that was a hefty bill especially for the time.

Looking at the area on Google Map and trying to take away 30+ years is not easy-but if the house has been there for 30+ years, it takes some to bury a dead body in that area. If the grave was shallow, the person was in a hurry or wanted her found right? Right now the area is pretty heavily wooded at the back of the property and it abuts sort of a no mans land...must be wetlands or something because it has not been built up. The river is a good distance but some roads/streets are close, as is a hwy I believe.

Somewhere there is a dentist who would recognize his/her work.

 

[Billylee]

Is Rochester the same as Irondequoit? I can't find a 130 Bay Knoll "Drive", but here's a 130 Bay Knoll Rd in Rochester, is that the same place?
http://www.realtor.com/property-detail/130-Bay-Knoll-Rd_Rochester_NY_14622_b5b3cf02

If it is, then the house was built in 1964, which would be 25 years before the body was found. Could it be that the killer buried the body there when the houses were in their construction phases? If this isn't the same place, let me know and I'll delete this post.

 

[believe09]

Is Rochester the same as Irondequoit? I can't find a 130 Bay Knoll "Drive", but here's a 130 Bay Knoll Rd in Rochester, is that the same place?
http://www.realtor.com/property-detail/130-Bay-Knoll-Rd_Rochester_NY_14622_b5b3cf02

If it is, then the house was built in 1964, which would be 25 years before the body was found. Could it be that the killer buried the body there when the houses were in their construction phases? If this isn't the same place, let me know and I'll delete this post.

TY-I will check, but I am sure it is!

 

[believe09]

see what a good sleuther I am NOT, lol.

OK, according to your resource, the house next door (120 or 122 Bay Knoll depending on the numbers posted in the site) was last sold in 1964 for 95K, which was the year it was built.

Those are the people I want to talk to, lol! I bet they have an idea of what it all looked like back then and leading up to the discovery of the body...

 

[CarlK90245]

Is Rochester the same as Irondequoit?

It is close enough to Irondequoit that it must be the same place, despite the Rochester address. It also appears to be consistent with the description of where the remains were found.

See Google Map
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=130+B...318,-77.544336&spn=0.008899,0.024247&t=h&z=16

 

[Billylee]

Okay, so if the body was indeed buried during the construction phases of those homes, it would have been 63 or possibly 62. Which does fit the time frame of the doe network's estimates, if I'm reading it right. (I'm thinking a body buried there before that, would probably have been found when the did the initial excavation for the homes.) So, if it wasn't someone who actually lived in the house who buried the body (which I'd assume LE would have already checked out). Then it I'm guessing we're looking for someone who went missing in 62-63. Just a hunch.

 

[believe09]

Or, it was someone who buried the body after and was lucky it wasnt found before then?

I am not good with maps-but guessing what those trees would look like 30+ years ago is a start...and unless there was a lot of scrub, it seems like there was a risk of being sighted unless it was before the houses were built.

 

[CarlK90245]

Or, it was someone who buried the body after and was lucky it wasnt found before then?

I am not good with maps-but guessing what those trees would look like 30+ years ago is a start...and unless there was a lot of scrub, it seems like there was a risk of being sighted unless it was before the houses were built.

It looks to me like it's close enough to the road that someone probably pulled off the road at an area not visible to traffic or homes and buried her there in the middle of the night.

 

[believe09]

It looks to me like it's close enough to the road that someone probably pulled off the road at an area not visible to traffic or homes and buried her there in the middle of the night.

Agreed-using Billy's resource I took a little walk down the street and turned onto Newport which crosses Bay Knoll. Most of the houses seem to have been built between 1963 and 1968...It takes some doing (keeping in mind I already confessed to how well I read a map!) to get the body back there.

 

[believe09]

The homes in the cul de sac seem to have been built in the late 50's....hmm

 

[CarlK90245]

Agreed-using Billy's resource I took a little walk down the street and turned onto Newport which crosses Bay Knoll. Most of the houses seem to have been built between 1963 and 1968...It takes some doing (keeping in mind I already confessed to how well I read a map!) to get the body back there.

You get a much better perspective from Google's street-view. Clearly, one would have to take the body across someone's property to get it to the undeveloped area behind the houses. That would seem to be a high-risk move to someone who is coming in from outside of the area.

 

[hmg]

You get a much better perspective from Google's street-view. Clearly, one would have to take the body across someone's property to get it to the undeveloped area behind the houses. That would seem to be a high-risk move to someone who is coming in from outside of the area.

It looks to me like possibly someone could have come from a point on Newport St through that sandy or wooded area without going through someone's backyard. If you were coming from Newport St you may not even be aware that the area the body was being buried in was part of someone's property depending on how far back the body was buried. Growing up my house was much like this one, on a cul de sac but adjacent to a wooded area. People would walk through the woods from another street and into our backyard and say they didn't even realize a house was there.

Of course I would also hope that LE questioned the original owner of the house.

 

[believe09]

There is a gap in property lines where Newport Ave starts to curve-I am trying to picture someone parking there with a body slung over their shoulder walking into the sandy part and then dragging it a while or carrying it through sand it its eventual burying place. That is a whole lot of work. JMO. There is a lot of other wooded areas to choose from if you were looking for cover. That would be closer.

 

[hmg]

Also the house was built in 1964 according to Zillow.

Obviously someone would need to talk to LE or the ME regarding this but it seems to me that there was probably initial assumption that the UID predated the house but perhaps more recent evidence made them rethink that assertion. I read in another thread that Connie Smith missing from CT since 1952 was compared against this Doe so obviously at some point there was a change in the case from thinking that someone missing from 1952 could be a viable lead to thinking that this person went missing in the 1970s.

 

[believe09]

Does this fit in with any particular serial killer you know of? I defer to your vast vast knowlege of regional crime....:blushing:

 

[hmg]

There is a gap in property lines where Newport Ave starts to curve-I am trying to picture someone parking there with a body slung over their shoulder walking into the sandy part and then dragging it a while or carrying it through sand it its eventual burying place. That is a whole lot of work. JMO. There is a lot of other wooded areas to choose from if you were looking for cover. That would be closer.

I was more thinking the wooded area since it seems the sandy area is below the "cliff" that was talked about on DoeNet. Looking at the overhead map on Zillow it doesnt appear far but not knowing the actual property its hard to justify.

Believe I know you're familiar with our Granby Doe from 1978. She was also buried behind a house in a wooded area and was dragged further than this victim.

 

[hmg]

Does this fit in with any particular serial killer you know of? I defer to your vast vast knowlege of regional crime....:blushing:

Ha, I don't know if I shoudl be flattered by that or what, lol. :blushing:

Someone brought up earlier the Alphabet Murders which fit perfectly into the area and the timeframe if we assume she was murdered in the 1970s. If that was the case we'd be looking for a victim with I.I. initials probaby. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_murders

I already privately discussed with Believe Lewis Lent who presumably buried at least three children in NY (one was found in Ithaca, at least two others, one being Sarah Ann Wood, have not been found but Lent claimed he buried them in NY). Lent has been looked at for crimes committed during the 1970s but his known victims were killed in the early 1990s.

Kenneth Bianchi, the Hillside Strangler, lived in Rochester at the time.

 

[believe09]

I was more thinking the wooded area since it seems the sandy area is below the "cliff" that was talked about on DoeNet. Looking at the overhead map on Zillow it doesnt appear far but not knowing the actual property its hard to justify.

Believe I know you're familiar with our Granby Doe from 1978. She was also buried behind a house in a wooded area and was dragged further than this victim.

You are right of course-the perp used a strap around her neck.

I have been going beserk trying to find I-I's that are missing or possibles. I found the homeowners of the address and the next door neighbor whose home is still in his possession from the time he built it.

Did the Alphabet killer bury his girls in shallow graves?

 

[hmg]

No shallow graves for the first two victims, I'm not sure about the third. The first two were by embankments similar to the one by this victim though. Here's an article about the killer, be forewarned it's a little disturbing: 9 disturbing murders that shocked Rochester

The 17-20 range would be a little old for the Alphabet Killer.

<MOD NOTE: Original link broken; edited to include current link as of October 9, 2022>