NY NY - Irondequoit, WhtFem 14-23, 122UFNY, skeletal in shallow grave, front teeth overlap, Jul'88

[hmg]

This is probably completely unrelated given the timeframe but there is a case on DoeNet 2170dfny concerning a Charlotte Heimann, a University of Rocherster MD student. She was afraid a man was after her so she checked herself into a psych ward where she knew she'd be held for 72 hours. When she left after her 72 hour hold she was still afraid the man was after her. She went home and was never seen again.

Given the 1981 date, Charlotte's height and age, I doubt this UID is her. But perhaps the mysterious man Charlotte was afraid of had killed others?

 

[Billylee]

Property description from Trulia:

http://www.trulia.com/homes/New_York/Rochester/sold/21183140-130-Bay-Knoll-Rd-Rochester-NY-14622

This is only a .38 of an acre parcel, I don't know about you, but I have 5 acres and I'd sure as heck know if someone buried a body on it. I think that unless it was one of the homeowners/tenants then this body was buried there before the home was built. I wonder why there is such a discrepancy between Namus and the Doe Network. Is it possible that they may now know that one of the owners actually buried the body (convicted for something else maybe and confessed) but don't have an ID on the girl? It would be interesting to find out what the big change is all about.

 

[Billylee]

If the Doe Network info turns out to be accurate, this missing girl could fit the bill. Mary Ann Switalski, Mary Ann Ruth Switalski – The Charley Project <Mod Note: updated link as of October 9, 2022>

Don't know exactly when these homes first sold, but interestingly this girl went missing from a carnival in Illinois and the NY World's fare opened in 1964. Who knows whom she could have met up with and maybe traveled to NY. Lots of things seemed to be going on on there in 63 and 64.

 

[Steely Dan]

Gold foil - is that just another term for gold filling or is it some type of method? I am not familiar with dental terms at all.

How far is this from NYC? Wonder if it could be an Alcala victim.

I live just outside of Rochester and to put the distance from NYC in perspective I can tell you this. My sister lives in Hanover, Pa which is near the PA/MD border. She lives closer to me than anyone in NYC.

It would be best to look for people from Rochester and Buffalo. Syracuse might work too. I'm not ruling out anywhere else just saying the highest probability is from the surrounding area.

Actually this is about 7-8 hours from NYC. I grew up in Rochester, and had grandparents in NYC. I am surprised I never heard about this. There was a serial killer in Rochester at this time, Arthur Shawcross. I would not be surprised if this was not one of his victims. O/T-In 1990 I lived right around the corner from him when he was arrested (8 doors away). I did not sleep for weeks. His victims were primarily prostitutes, however.

Edit: I re-read his history, and he most likely was not this Doe's killer, as he did not move to Rochester until 1987, and this Does approx. death is 10-30 yrs prior.

One of my best friends lived about 50 yards from his apartment building across from Genessee Hospital. Supposedly Shawcross would go into the Dunkin Donuts on the corner and talk to cops about the murders.

I agree with you that it wasn't Shawcross. He merely dumped his bodies and didn't bury them.

Is Rochester the same as Irondequoit? I can't find a 130 Bay Knoll "Drive", but here's a 130 Bay Knoll Rd in Rochester, is that the same place?
http://www.realtor.com/property-detail/130-Bay-Knoll-Rd_Rochester_NY_14622_b5b3cf02

If it is, then the house was built in 1964, which would be 25 years before the body was found. Could it be that the killer buried the body there when the houses were in their construction phases? If this isn't the same place, let me know and I'll delete this post.

My brother lives in Irondequoit and his mailing address has a Rochester zip code.

Here's a picture of the house. The photo was very dark so I lightened it up using a computer program that makes it look painted, kind of.

 

[reasypeasy]

There is a gap in property lines where Newport Ave starts to curve-I am trying to picture someone parking there with a body slung over their shoulder walking into the sandy part and then dragging it a while or carrying it through sand it its eventual burying place. That is a whole lot of work. JMO. There is a lot of other wooded areas to choose from if you were looking for cover. That would be closer.

It may well have been someone who knew the area well.

I have friends who bought on a subdivision of what was basically a valley with bushland at the bottom. The big iron fence the developers put in at the bottom of their blocks is now the bane of their existence because of all the burglers jumping it at night, and all the local high school kids who like to meet up behind it and drink and smoke and stickybeak and throw bottles over their fence.

I find it very credible that a body could be buried at the back of someone's house block on sloping land and they not be any the wiser. When you look out from your patio, you look out at the view, not down into the near valley. Add a bit of cover from shrubs or a fence? Pretty much as perfect as a suburban area is ever going to get for skulking about in.

 

[Cymro]

I believe I read that the body was buried on the edge of the property.

I am of course describing things as they are now or in the last few years, according to a recent satellite photo, and not according to how things would have been 30 - 45 years ago.

If you were to park up on the ramp around the expressway on the south side, under the highway bridge to hide your vehicle, you would see a wooded area after about 100 yards. However that wooded area is not so dense and after 125 yards or so you're in a clearing. Maybe this wasn't such a good hiding place after all... but the clearing ends after 100 yards and there are more trees. So you keep going to make for a better hiding place.

Only problem is, you are now near or even on the property. You decide that you can't find a better place as the only thing riskier than going into woods with a dead body or kidnapped girl is coming out of the woods with one - anyone could be investigating your stopped car or truck by now and you would lose control of the situation. So the deed is done there out of necessity.

It doesn't require access to a construction site or any special familiarity with the land. It gets riskier if the houses are occupied of course but even then may not be as bad for the killer as emerging from the woods with the victim.

If the killer did this and was intimately familiar with the area, they'd have known that, from the satellite view at least, the woods go much further back to the north side which would be at least as accessible.

 

[reasypeasy]

I believe I read that the body was buried on the edge of the property.

I am of course describing things as they are now or in the last few years, according to a recent satellite photo, and not according to how things would have been 30 - 45 years ago.

If you were to park up on the ramp around the expressway on the south side, under the highway bridge to hide your vehicle, you would see a wooded area after about 100 yards. However that wooded area is not so dense and after 125 yards or so you're in a clearing. Maybe this wasn't such a good hiding place after all... but the clearing ends after 100 yards and there are more trees. So you keep going to make for a better hiding place.

Only problem is, you are now near or even on the property. You decide that you can't find a better place as the only thing riskier than going into woods with a dead body or kidnapped girl is coming out of the woods with one - anyone could be investigating your stopped car or truck by now and you would lose control of the situation. So the deed is done there out of necessity.

It doesn't require access to a construction site or any special familiarity with the land. It gets riskier if the houses are occupied of course but even then may not be as bad for the killer as emerging from the woods with the victim.

If the killer did this and was intimately familiar with the area, they'd have known that, from the satellite view at least, the woods go much further back to the north side which would be at least as accessible.

If that story is approximately what happened, then two other things would be highly probable... the killer was working from an outdated understanding of the area (old map or knew the area from childhood) and that if the victim was alive and conscious when taken into the woods then her attempts to seek help from nearby houses would have escalated the situation quickly.

 

[CarlK90245]

I went back to the Google Earth street view. If you go down Newport Road past the houses and toward the boat docks, there is a clearing on the left that is surrounded by thick trees. That clearing takes you back around into a very well-hidden area that leads to what appears to be an incline right up to the rear of the property on 130 Bay Knoll Road.

This is probably where the killer accessed the area. He probably could have driven his car right into the clearing and up that incline and would have been entirely hidden from view.

 

[Billylee]

Namus says minimum age 17 and maximum age 19. Can they really be that accurate in determining age? Just curious.

 

[CarlK90245]

Namus says minimum age 17 and maximum age 19. Can they really be that accurate in determining age? Just curious.

Probably not. I would probably look for anyone from 16 to 21.

 

[Billylee]

I don't see any rule outs, are there none, since 1988, or we just don't have them here? How about Denise Sheehy, if she hasn't been ruled out: Denise Marie Sheehy – The Charley Project <Mod Note: updated link as of October 9, 2022> She went missing from Woodside NY in 1970.

I have a feeling that they would have at least ruled out the local missing persons by now, but then, you found out then didn't rule out Sheryl yet so who knows?

 

[Billylee]

Toronto is only a 3 hour drive to the grave site. This gal from Canada, last seen in Toronto in 1976, Crystal Elizabeth VAN HUUKSLOOT, her nose looks like the one in the doe network sketch to me. Hard to tell about her teeth, because the picture is pretty crappy, though it looks like there may be some crowns there. Maybe not her, she is listed as 5'7", I doubt they could be that far off in height. 907DFON - Crystal Elizabeth Van Huuksloot <Mod Note: updated link as of October 9, 2022>

 

[Billylee]

From what I can see, Darlene Polizzi has not been ruled out here. Darlene Polizzi – The Charley Project <Mod Note: updated link as of October 9, 2022>

There is something about her eyes and width of her nose that resembles the recon drawing to me. She fits within the age and height of the original doe network description. I also found this interesting from her case:

Raymond Alves lived in Polizzi's neighborhood in 1967. He worked with her husband at a sheet metal plant, and she was friends with his wife. The Alveses moved away the day after Polizzi disappeared. In 1974, Alves was convicted of raping a teenager and tossing her off an overpass. He was released from prison in 2000, after serving 23 years of a 47-year sentence. Authorities believe he may be a serial killer responsible for the murders of as many as seven teenage females whose bodies were found in Bergen County, New Jersey. He has not been charged in any of the deaths, however, and he has not been connected to Polizzi's disappearance.


When I did a people finder's search there shows up a Raymond Alves at least at one time connected with Rochester NY. (67 YO now). Now I don't know if it's the same guy, but he does have several last name aliases and there's usually a reason for that.



More about Raymond Alves, and it appears that since his release from prison, he's vanished.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/17/n...-disputed-release-of-rapist.html?pagewanted=1

 

[Billylee]

Apparently Alves is not on the loose afterall:
<modsnip: broken link>

The state keeps 412 convicted sex offenders in two civil-commitment facilities &#8211; 162 in Kearny and 250 in an annex at the Avenel Adult Diagnostic and Treatment Center in Woodbridge.

Among those is Raymond Alves, who was sentenced to 47 years for raping a teenage girl in Fair Lawn in 1976. He completed his term in 2000 but was placed in civil commitment after a brief release.

I was wondering why I couldn't find him listed as a registered SO, now I know.

 

[Billylee]

Darlene Polizzi vs. JD 122UFNY

Surely they would have already checked her out?

 

[CarlK90245]

Darlene Polizzi vs. JD 122UFNY
Surely they would have already checked her out?

I'm not so sure that they would have.

The up-do kind of threw me off, but I tried doing an overlay and the alignment looks pretty good. Their jaws and chins are shaped a little different, but I don't think that I would rule it out on that.

This might be worth calling in to see if she is on their list.

 

[Billylee]

Would you like to give them a holler, since you already contacted them. Just seems like she would have been an obvious one to rule out. Could be Alves grew up in Rochester area and knew that area.

 

[believe09]

Darlene Polizzi vs. JD 122UFNY

Surely they would have already checked her out?

I'm not so sure that they would have.

The up-do kind of threw me off, but I tried doing an overlay and the alignment looks pretty good. Their jaws and chins are shaped a little different, but I don't think that I would rule it out on that.

This might be worth calling in to see if she is on their list.

Would you like to give them a holler, since you already contacted them. Just seems like she would have been an obvious one to rule out. Could be Alves grew up in Rochester area and knew that area.

FWIW, I like her a whole lot...

 

[CarlK90245]

Would you like to give them a holler, since you already contacted them. Just seems like she would have been an obvious one to rule out. Could be Alves grew up in Rochester area and knew that area.

Yeah, I can bring it up when I make the follow-up call for the S Tillinghast submission. Just as a rule, I give them 3-4 weeks. It's been a couple of weeks, so I will give it another week.

 

[Billylee]

Probably better if we're not coming at them from too many directions. I'll really be surprised if they didn't consider her, being an acquaintance of Alves' wife and her husband worked with him, but who knows? Too bad I couldn't find a better picture of Polizzi, her maiden name was DeWolff, googled that to see if I could find another picture, Nada. The sketch artist showed something going on with the teeth, but you can't tell from her picture if there is anything. Other than, her smile is a little crooked, which sometimes people get in the habit of doing when they have a noticeable gap or tooth problem on one side. Anyway thanks. We'll see.