State v Bradley Cooper - 3/25/11

[sunshine05]

Even if CPD did erase her phone, there would still be a record of the text messages via the phone company. Emails I'm not as sure about if it was a pop3 account.

Yes, I think some of this will come out. Isn't it interesting that it's the defense who is most interested in the missing data? You would think it would be the prosecution to show further proof of BC's guilt.

 

[jmflu]

There are some people in the world who would still deny a specific person being guilty EVEN IF there were a plain-as-day video showing them doing the deed they are accused of doing. They would claim it was CGI, they would claim it was a look-alike actor, they would claim conspiracy and anything and everything.

I agree. ABB...anyone but Brad. I'd love to see their explanation for him declaring what Nancy was wearing when 1) it was the only thing she was wearing 2) they hadn't said it was her body, 3) he didn't see her leave, and 4) he said she had so many running bras he wouldn't know what was missing.

Or, just focus on plans that were not on someone's calendar.

 

[johnfear]

Even if CPD did erase her phone, there would still be a record of the text messages via the phone company. Emails I'm not as sure about if it was a pop3 account.

I was wondering what the timeline was on text messages. I know they stay on the device infinitely (unless erased). But, what is the standard for phone companies? I have read (because of this case) that different providers indicate different record keeping standards. 3-5 days for Verizon. 7 days for AT and T. Does that mean they are released altogether from the record keeping after that?

 

[johnfear]

I was just reading the posts about the ABB theories.

I have to admit that I don't know them (The Coopers). I know quite a few people in the Cary community who have been "attached" to this case or have some sort of peripheral involvement. (Several friends at Cisco in the same building, one who actually knew the family, a few folks involved with LE)

I don't have a stake in the personal side of it, but what I do have a stake in is the "system" side of it. (We all do, because it could be any of us.)

That's the main reason for my wavering on some of it (that and having lawyers and LE for friends) because I want to see that the pieces make sense.

I do think that CPD aimed to prove he had done it from the outset and one side of me says: Okay, let's see what made you go that way. The other side says: Really? You heard a few folks talk about "I hate Brad days" and a few folks say their marriage sucked and you AIMED at him. As far as his depositions and his reactions and all of that...you guys are sort of proving your own theory. He was a weirdo and he did weird things and he then had weird reactions. So, I cross that off. I get that he was a manipulative who's means were generally self-serving. I know a lot of folks like that (male and female) who have never murdered anyone, just made other folks lives miserable for their own selfish reasons.

I mean, Jessica Adams didn't even dial 911 and say something's wrong. She called into the non-emergency line, right?

I just would not want to be the guy who was being eyeballed (possibly because he just was the guy who did it) and be innocent. (Again, not saying he is or isn't) Do you know how devastating THAT would be? You lose your entire life to some dude who DID get away with murder because a few folks (who would later find out you were weird) thought your reactions were weird.

The most compelling thing for me so far has been something that really isn't proof (Her mom's testimony) but goes way further than the first few witnesses. And, by the way, those first few witnesses were the foundation of the prosecution's theory. They were what they hope the jury would believe was motive for murder. And they proved it was a terrible marriage, but they also opened up some huge gaps for the defense.

I think my point here is that if the system is to catch bad guys and people who committed murder, not weirdos who are bad husbands and clearly DID NOT commit murder (again, not arguing on BC's behalf).

It was pointed out to me (and verified) by a Wake County lawyer this weekend that the Grand Jury in Wake County returns a TBI (True Bill) on nearly every case presented it. He said (in twenty years here, mind you) he had only seen 1 case come back NTB (Not True Billed) and they waited and rammed it through on the next session with the same evidence and it was TB'd at that time. However, he said he felt like this case was special because of the extradition circumstances. That is why it moved so much more rapidly than some of the other cases (RA and JY as cases in point).

I should also point out that in the same argument that BC was "not convicted" for me this weekend, they took the other two big cases and based on search warrants and arrest warrants alone "convicted" those guys for me beyond any reasonable doubt. Not based on anything more than what the investigators stated as facts in the warrants.

 

[LyndyLoo]

I was wondering what the timeline was on text messages. I know they stay on the device infinitely (unless erased). But, what is the standard for phone companies? I have read (because of this case) that different providers indicate different record keeping standards. 3-5 days for Verizon. 7 days for AT and T. Does that mean they are released altogether from the record keeping after that?

My first inclination is that they had NC's phone right away..It was in her car..so I dont know just what this is all about..It is the Defense making this comment in their openings..but we havent heard what was actually found yet.Only logs from AT&T and Cell Towers...

My next question would be how far back would they really want to go anyway when trying to get clues to communication on her phone, whether texts, or calls?..She had only been home from her trip with her kids and her family less than a week before she went missing......so wouldnt only those calls/texts relevant only be the ones since she got back?? but more specifically in the preceding 48 hours before she was reported missing..

Whether there were missing calls/texts is only alleged by Kurtz...HOW would Brad know what calls she made on her phone anyway??..unless he made them doing his manipulatings per his remote abilities..But that too is speculation... Whatever Def. says is NOT evidence, it is not based on fact until it is proven by testimony by a witness...Just saying doesnt make it so :twocents:

 

[jmflu]

Again, how is it possible that he could identify the ONE THING Nancy Cooper was wearing when her body was found? No one asked him, no one said it was Nancy!

 

[gracielee]

Again, how is it possible that he could identify the ONE THING Nancy Cooper was wearing when her body was found? No one asked him, no one said it was Nancy!

I keep asking this too. How many red & black sports bras did Nancy own?

 

[SleuthinNC]

Ok sorry just me trying to account for hardware again.

Where is the other external hard drive and thumb drive from the July 25th search warrant?

 

[cityslick]

How do you know that they didn't? If they had proof Brad murdered Nancy, proof, why would they chase dead ends and waste your tax money?

Because the testimony and evidence up to this point does not suggest that they had proof. They didn't even have any foresnic evidence at the point when they recovered the body, yet at that point they had already dismissed BC's story if you believe what Det. Greer said to the ME (last seen at 12am, not 7am). They had more than one person call in and say they saw her but yet they didn't believe BC simply due to his statement and the statements of the neighbors.

They didn't believe his story but yet they didn't get an indictment until 3 months later. How would they know it's a dead end when they didn't even talk to these people?

On a side note, I think a lot this questioning of what LE did and did not do go along with where this happened.

 

[Just the Fax]

Yes, I think some of this will come out. Isn't it interesting that it's the defense who is most interested in the missing data? You would think it would be the prosecution to show further proof of BC's guilt.

Quite sure they will.....

 

[gracielee]

Ok sorry just me trying to account for hardware again.

Where is the other external hard drive and thumb drive from the July 25th search warrant?

LOL, I am so completely confused by the electronic stuff and the call routing. I've tried and tried to follow it, but my head is spinning. I have to focus on what I *can* understand. I wouldn't know a thumb drive from a clothespin. :maddening:

One other thing that surprised me from listening to the depositions, the coopers didn't have any savings accounts that I picked up on. Not a single savings account, except for a small, $400.00 account for Bella. They had a healthy income, Brad got a big bonus twice a year, yet no savings at all. Even when we were young and poor, husband still in school, we had a savings account. Windfall money went into it. Gifts, tax returns, into savings. And I opened savings accounts for each of our children, again, even when we were young and poor.

 

[SleuthyGal]

They didn't believe his story but yet they didn't get an indictment until 3 months later. How would they know it's a dead end when they didn't even talk to these people?

BC was arrested Oct 27, 2008. By Sept '08, Dismukes testified, the people who had called in saying they had spotted Nancy had been contacted. Some in the first few weeks, others up to 2 months later.

Why continued assertions that CPD contacted no one? That's not the testimony.

 

[SleuthinNC]

LOL, I am so completely confused by the electronic stuff and the call routing. I've tried and tried to follow it, but my head is spinning. I have to focus on what I *can* understand. I wouldn't know a thumb drive from a clothespin. :maddening:

One other thing that surprised me from listening to the depositions, the coopers didn't have any savings accounts that I picked up on. Not a single savings account, except for a small, $400.00 account for Bella. They had a healthy income, Brad got a big bonus twice a year, yet no savings at all. Even when we were young and poor, husband still in school, we had a savings account. Windfall money went into it. Gifts, tax returns, into savings. And I opened savings accounts for each of our children, again, even when we were young and poor.

Did they list any investment accounts? We only have a savings account for our kid with birthday cash type stuff in it. It is not our only means of savings.

 

[Just the Fax]

It was pointed out to me (and verified) by a Wake County lawyer this weekend that the Grand Jury in Wake County returns a TBI (True Bill) on nearly every case presented it. He said (in twenty years here, mind you) he had only seen 1 case come back NTB (Not True Billed) and they waited and rammed it through on the next session with the same evidence and it was TB'd at that time. However, he said he felt like this case was special because of the extradition circumstances. That is why it moved so much more rapidly than some of the other cases (RA and JY as cases in point).

.

GJ's in NC indict based only on probable cause....not a very high burden, thus pretty automatic.

Interesting someone told you the relatively swift arrest was due to extradition circumstances.

 

[carolinalady]

My first inclination is that they had NC's phone right away..It was in her car..so I dont know just what this is all about..It is the Defense making this comment in their openings..but we havent heard what was actually found yet.Only logs from AT&T and Cell Towers...

My next question would be how far back would they really want to go anyway when trying to get clues to communication on her phone, whether texts, or calls?..She had only been home from her trip with her kids and her family less than a week before she went missing......so wouldnt only those calls/texts relevant only be the ones since she got back?? but more specifically in the preceding 48 hours before she was reported missing..

Whether there were missing calls/texts is only alleged by Kurtz...HOW would Brad know what calls she made on her phone anyway??..unless he made them doing his manipulatings per his remote abilities..But that too is speculation... Whatever Def. says is NOT evidence, it is not based on fact until it is proven by testimony by a witness...Just saying doesnt make it so :twocents:

Brad gave them the phone. I know JA said she saw the phone in the car, but the phone was given to police by Brad, from a drawer in the house, IIRC.

 

[gracielee]

Did they list any investment accounts? We only have a savings account for our kid with birthday cash type stuff in it. It is not our only means of savings.

Brad has a 401K, IIRC, it only has about $25,000 in it. I could be wrong on the amount, but I think that's what it was. For his income, measley IMO. Again, IIRC I think he was putting something like 3% into the account. He had some stocks and stock options, but again, IIRC, only a few thousand in stock that they cashed in the previous year. There weren't any certificates of deposit, money market savings, etc. Just a plain checking account and Bella's account at the bank, and then the 401K which they'd borrowed heavily on. If I've missed anything, please, someone else chime in.

 

[gracielee]

Brad gave them the phone. I know JA said she saw the phone in the car, but the phone was given to police by Brad, from a drawer in the house, IIRC.

How do we know Brad didn't erase the phone *before* he gave it to them?

 

[RaleighNC]

So - quick question and back to the phone records.

What the heck was Brad doing checking his cell phone voicemail 2 times, within minutes, when the first call seemed to have been sufficient (time wise) to get his messages? I man, really, it was prior to 7 AM on a Saturday - who would have been calling him and why the 2nd call of a decent duration?

Based on the phone records. there were no more incoming calls to Brad's phone between those 2 times, so why the need to call again?

We're sure it's the cell VM right and not the Cisco VM / phone system?

I also suspect that as part of Brad's job, they had all sorts of funky stuff set up for test purposes that may or may not have been outside of the mainstream Cisco voicemail system.

Maybe I am just not a morning person, but there seems to be an awful lot of phone traffic prior to 7 AM on a weekend - and checking of work mail, cell phone VM, etc.

I am as addicted to being connected, getting my cell / home calls, getting my email as anyone - but not at 6-something AM on a Saturday - esp for work - and esp since we have not heard that Brad was in the middle of any important projects or crit sit's for work / customers, etc.

Hope to see this weeks testimony provide some real answers.

 

[jilly]

I was just reading the posts about the ABB theories.

I have to admit that I don't know them (The Coopers). I know quite a few people in the Cary community who have been "attached" to this case or have some sort of peripheral involvement. (Several friends at Cisco in the same building, one who actually knew the family, a few folks involved with LE)

I don't have a stake in the personal side of it, but what I do have a stake in is the "system" side of it. (We all do, because it could be any of us.)

That's the main reason for my wavering on some of it (that and having lawyers and LE for friends) because I want to see that the pieces make sense.

I do think that CPD aimed to prove he had done it from the outset and one side of me says: Okay, let's see what made you go that way. The other side says: Really? You heard a few folks talk about "I hate Brad days" and a few folks say their marriage sucked and you AIMED at him. As far as his depositions and his reactions and all of that...you guys are sort of proving your own theory. He was a weirdo and he did weird things and he then had weird reactions. So, I cross that off. I get that he was a manipulative who's means were generally self-serving. I know a lot of folks like that (male and female) who have never murdered anyone, just made other folks lives miserable for their own selfish reasons.

I mean, Jessica Adams didn't even dial 911 and say something's wrong. She called into the non-emergency line, right?

I just would not want to be the guy who was being eyeballed (possibly because he just was the guy who did it) and be innocent. (Again, not saying he is or isn't) Do you know how devastating THAT would be? You lose your entire life to some dude who DID get away with murder because a few folks (who would later find out you were weird) thought your reactions were weird.

The most compelling thing for me so far has been something that really isn't proof (Her mom's testimony) but goes way further than the first few witnesses. And, by the way, those first few witnesses were the foundation of the prosecution's theory. They were what they hope the jury would believe was motive for murder. And they proved it was a terrible marriage, but they also opened up some huge gaps for the defense.

I think my point here is that if the system is to catch bad guys and people who committed murder, not weirdos who are bad husbands and clearly DID NOT commit murder (again, not arguing on BC's behalf).

***snipped respectfully for space***

Hi John Fear and :Happybirthday:

I totally understand what you're saying (and that's a rarity for me here what with all this tech talk!:crazy but as well as gathering evidence, LE looks at everything objectively on the whole - which includes rulling out a person of interest such as a good alibi.

It probably comes down to statistics, as well, for domestic abuse. Here are a couple:

Women are much more likely than men to be victimized by a current or former intimate partner. Women are 84 percent of spouse abuse victims and 86 percent of victims of abuse at the hands of a boyfriend or girlfriend and about three-fourths of the persons who commit family violence are male.

http://www.endabuse.org/content/action_center/detail/754

Two-thirds of attacks on women are committed by someone the victim knows - often a husband or boyfriend.

*****

42% of murdered women are killed by their intimate male partners. 4,000 women are killed each year because of domestic violence.

Women are more often victims of domestic violence than victims of burglary, muggings, or other physical crime combined.

http://dso.uncc.edu/women/TBN_Web/stats.html

I had another link (which I can't find right now) that ups the above 42% to included acquaintances of the victim.

 

[carolinalady]

How do we know Brad didn't erase the phone *before* he gave it to them?

There's a letter on file where JA Young says the phone was wiped when he attempted to unlock. The subsequent s/w where another detective (he testified Thursday) reviewed it and no data was on the phone.