April 22 weekend of Sleuthiness

[RoughlyCollie]

I don't think anyone is getting framed, but I can give you reasons why NC friends would be motivated to paint BC in the most negative light possible, regardless of truth.

I'd like to hear the reasons, if you want to elaborate. Thanks.

 

[SleuthinNC]

If I were to plant evidence in the form of a map file, the time stamp I'd choose would be between 1am and 5am the night of the murder. It is more believable that the killing was done in a fit of rage, and that there was a mad dash to destroy evidence in the wee hours of the morning. I was surprised to learn through this evidence that this murder was planned so far in advance.

What if you don't really know what you are doing and think you are changing the time to 1:15 am but screw it up and end up with 1:15 pm? We already know CPD screwed up the dates on multiple reports.

 

[cityslick]

I'd like to hear the reasons, if you want to elaborate. Thanks.

Well, the main one is they believe he killed her. They believed that as soon as they found out she was missing. Add the fact that they have a strong dislike for him, due to how NC perceived him to them. To some this may be their way of 'getting him back' for the way he treated NC, especially during the early months of 2008 (notwithstanding her murder). Another reason is to them, he was always the outsider, the one that didn't fit in. He's not one of 'them'.

Just off the top of my head.

 

[LyndyLoo]

HAPPY EASTER BUNNY MORNING :sunshine::grouphug:From :leaf2:

All caught up on readings.. and have been wondering why Brad or what could have been his trigger to plan this...Brad had been trying to control Nancy for months...ever since Nancy started to pursuit the separation, divorce, moving back to Canada with the girls....Since their relationship had been so antagonistic for months on end..What thoughts do you have was the final straw for Brad?? Here's some of my thoughts..

1) With Nancy and the girls being away the week prior (early July) returning on the Sunday prior to her death..maybe he had time to realize, that Nancy had support from her family and friends..and knew He wasnt going to be able to control things much longer?

2) Knew Nancy wouldnt leave both girls behind, and likely felt she wouldnt leave the house without them (kept one childs passport for insurance) because as all good Family Law lawyers tell their clients.."Dont leave the house or domain unless you HAVE to"...and suddenly he read that email from Realtor to Nancy about moving out and quik..which made him panic so to speak, that she would leave with kids SOON!!

3) He also knew a weekday would be impossible (due to work for him) and busy activity schedule for Nancy/friends and kids...SO Friday Night it had to be...apply the circumstances surrounding July 11th and onward...along with Brad's less than truthes and unusual activities..

So for me I think the notion (realization) that Nancy was about to MOVE OUT with girls soon was his final trigger to DO SOMETHING!!

Anyone else have a theory on just how far back Brad went in his plannings?

 

[ohiogirl]

Happy Easter to you, too, LyndyLoo. Have a great one!

 

[GhostCrab]

HAPPY EASTER BUNNY MORNING :sunshine::grouphug:From :leaf2:

All caught up on readings.. and have been wondering why Brad or what could have been his trigger to plan this...Brad had been trying to control Nancy for months...ever since Nancy started to pursuit the separation, divorce, moving back to Canada with the girls....Since their relationship had been so antagonistic for months on end..What thoughts do you have was the final straw for Brad?? Here's some of my thoughts..

1) With Nancy and the girls being away the week prior (early July) returning on the Sunday prior to her death..maybe he had time to realize, that Nancy had support from her family and friends..and knew He wasnt going to be able to control things much longer?

2) Knew Nancy wouldnt leave both girls behind, and likely felt she wouldnt leave the house without them (kept one childs passport for insurance) because as all good Family Law lawyers tell their clients.."Dont leave the house or domain unless you HAVE to"...and suddenly he read that email from Realtor to Nancy about moving out and quik..which made him panic so to speak, that she would leave with kids SOON!!

3) He also knew a weekday would be impossible (due to work for him) and busy activity schedule for Nancy/friends and kids...SO Friday Night it had to be...apply the circumstances surrounding July 11th and onward...along with Brad's less than truthes and unusual activities..

So for me I think the notion (realization) that Nancy was about to MOVE OUT with girls soon was his final trigger to DO SOMETHING!!

Anyone else have a theory on just how far back Brad went in his plannings?

But this in no way squares with state's assertion that he was a bad dad, one who had made the suggestion to NC that they split the girls. There is testimony from her friends that he did very little, took little interest in the girls, NC did everything. If this was the case why in the world would he plan to murder NC, which would leave in one of two places : facing a criminal charge, or a life of having to be the primary caretaker of two small children. Remember, this is selfish Brad we're talking about here.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Well, the main one is they believe he killed her. They believed that as soon as they found out she was missing.

I think the friends believed that because they were in hate Brad mode, too. At least, before the police were called, JA called the area hospital to make sure NC wasn't being treated there.

To me, it is strange that the friends turned out to be right -- NC had met with foul play and had been murdered. What are the odds of that having happened? I'd wager they are very slim.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

So for me I think the notion (realization) that Nancy was about to MOVE OUT with girls soon was his final trigger to DO SOMETHING!!

Well, that something was pretty radical, considering that he was not powerless, he had equal parental rights, and he could have made sure NC did not leave with the girls -- and he didn't have to kill her to accomplish that.

It is scary that some people use murder as the final solution to problems that can be otherwise nonviolently resolved. What makes them able to do that? Strangling someone takes time, so the killing wasn't instantaneous. The killer had time to think about what he was doing, and he had time to stop.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

But this in no way squares with state's assertion that he was a bad dad, one who had made the suggestion to NC that they split the girls.

I think that when Brad participated in the deposition with Alice Stubbs, he had received legal advice not to do that. No lawyer in his right mind would advise his client, who was obviously a suspect in his wife's murder, to do that. Brad did it anyway, because he did not want to lose custody of his kids. To me, that shows he wanted them and he loved them.

 

[LyndyLoo]

But this in no way squares with state's assertion that he was a bad dad, one who had made the suggestion to NC that they split the girls. There is testimony from her friends that he did very little, took little interest in the girls, NC did everything. If this was the case why in the world would he plan to murder NC, which would leave in one of two places : facing a criminal charge, or a life of having to be the primary caretaker of two small children. Remember, this is selfish Brad we're talking about here.

I guess I dont agree with that..The Pros. stating he was a BAD DAD...The only thing being illustrated was that Brad had been an abscent father most of their lives (not to mention husband even prior to that), too busy working etc..( Not so different than many fathers ) and then how be BECAME a dad who then tried to assert power over Nancy using the girls to try and "emotionally hurt" Nancy...No where have I heard anyone say Brad did not Love his children..Brad's lacking was emotional attachment. That inability he has has been shown in alot of ways..lack of close friends, lack of long term relationships, lack of joining into a "Bond" with people in general..antisocial no, but very very introverted and difficult bonding with people in general for long periods.

Brad being that loner type personality in of itself is not evidence he murdered anybody. However, the litany of circumstantial evidence of his behaviors within his nuclear family unit and behaviors of control and growing hatreds, led to this...He had few abilities to control Nancy, as she was a natural social personality, had strong bonds with family and friends and her children..however money could control, ability to spy and know what she was doing, who with and when, know her plans and advice she was getting...Due to realizing he could lose everything IF he allowed Nancy to win this fight..was too much for him to handle..and lacking social skills he emploded and did the worst thing possible...

Sorry, I seem to be doing a little pontificating, apologize..but disagree respectfully that anyone is even suggesting he was a bad dad, or didnt love his children..but his type of love for some reason gets judged by some..which I dont necessarily believe in..however post Nancy's missing/murder..his role as father was in question as "Healthy"..IMO:seeya:

 

[Star12]

I think that when Brad participated in the deposition with Alice Stubbs, he had received legal advice not to do that. No lawyer in his right mind would advise his client, who was obviously a suspect in his wife's murder, to do that. Brad did it anyway, because he did not want to lose custody of his kids. To me, that shows he wanted them and he loved them.

First, I would bet that BC did not just get a 'pretty please' letter from AS to cime to the deposition. It would be in the form of a subpoena which requires your attendance. No turning down that invite, and your attorney would insist that you attend.

Second, he had said that once Nancy and the children left for Canada he never wanted to see any of them again.

 

[GhostCrab]

I guess I dont agree with that..The Pros. stating he was a BAD DAD...The only thing being illustrated was that Brad had been an abscent father most of their lives (not to mention husband even prior to that), too busy working etc..( Not so different than many fathers ) and then how be BECAME a dad who then tried to assert power over Nancy using the girls to try and "emotionally hurt" Nancy...No where have I heard anyone say Brad did not Love his children..Brad's lacking was emotional attachment. That inability he has has been shown in alot of ways..lack of close friends, lack of long term relationships, lack of joining into a "Bond" with people in general..antisocial no, but very very introverted and difficult bonding with people in general for long periods.

Brad being that loner type personality in of itself is not evidence he murdered anybody. However, the litany of circumstantial evidence of his behaviors within his nuclear family unit and behaviors of control and growing hatreds, led to this...He had few abilities to control Nancy, as she was a natural social personality, had strong bonds with family and friends and her children..however money could control, ability to spy and know what she was doing, who with and when, know her plans and advice she was getting...Due to realizing he could lose everything IF he allowed Nancy to win this fight..was too much for him to handle..and lacking social skills he emploded and did the worst thing possible...

Sorry, I seem to be doing a little pontificating, apologize..but disagree respectfully that anyone is even suggesting he was a bad dad, or didnt love his children..but his type of love for some reason gets judged by some..which I dont necessarily believe in..however post Nancy's missing/murder..his role as father was in question as "Healthy"..IMO:seeya:

But even the notion that he flipped because he was 'losing control over her" doesn't add up. At the time of her death, I will readily admit that there were things he was doing to control her behavior, even hurt her. Contextually, though, they were in a divorce that had turned acrimonious. Both parties were doing things to hurt the other. She was running his name through the mud. And I know that doesn't sit well with the BDI group but NC was not a passive personality and as much as you would like to sanctify the victim you also need to be realistic. If all this were taking place outside the context of an adversarial relationship, I would say, you bet, he treated her badly, but unfortunately when you are dealing with something like a divorce too many times the players start to feel that anything goes.

 

[RaleighNative]

Wanted to post a few points and welcome feedback from both sides on my thoughts. Basically it has to do with what I think is at the heart of the case, and what I believe are smokescreens.

1) Affairs/Infidelity - Unless there is the claim that one of NC's lovers, or a spouse of a lover, is the murderer, I think this is a smokescreen. It seems we have people on both sides of the fence pointing guilt/non-guilt based on affairs. However, it's shown that both NC and BC were unfaithful. And as far as the amount of affairs, it seems NC was the less faithful spouse in the relationship.

I honestly don't believe NC and BC were in love with each other - being together was mainly to preserve the family. It seems BC was really non-chalant about NC's affairs. And NC was outraged over BC's HM affair, but I don't think it was outrage over love. It seems more outrage over the humiliation of HM being her friend and BC lying about it. I think NC used it as an excuse to get out of a marriage she wanted out of regardless, and wanted to portray herself as the wronged party in the divorce.

2) Blaming the victim - this, understandably, is a hot-button issue. Many people on boards seem to attack NC on a personal basis - affairs, spending, lack of what some people perceive as good housekeeping skills.

I must say, this bothers me as well. Can you imagine one day your entire life being opened publically and under suspicion? I don't think any of us would come across as perfect. We all have faults and flaws.

3) Framing BC - I feel the CPD decided "Brad did it" and got tunnel vision. They lacked following up other possibilties (and more of that is to come with the defense presenting their case), and were simply incompetent in things such as erasing NC's blackberry.

But a conspiracy theory and planting evidence? I'm hard pressed to believe that. Was the CPD inept? Yes. Diabolical? No.

In the end, I think this entire case comes down to technology. Namely - Was there a call from the home to BC at Harris Teeter? and Did BC search the site where NC's body was dumped before the murder?

 

[GhostCrab]

I honestly don't believe NC and BC were in love with each other - being together was mainly to preserve the family.

I agree with this, I think they were done with each other and I've had a hard time with the idea that because he didn't react to the news of her death the way some felt he should have then that means he killed her.

I mean you're talking about a guy that seemed to live his life in a remote, emotionally devoid manner and then add on top of that the acrimony he most like felt for her because of their problems....who knows how he should have acted.

 

[Star12]

But even the notion that he flipped because he was 'losing control over her" doesn't add up. At the time of her death, I will readily admit that there were things he was doing to control her behavior, even hurt her. Contextually, though, they were in a divorce that had turned acrimonious. Both parties were doing things to hurt the other. She was running his name through the mud. And I know that doesn't sit well with the BDI group but NC was not a passive personality and as much as you would like to sanctify the victim you also need to be realistic. If all this were taking place outside the context of an adversarial relationship, I would say, you bet, he treated her badly, but unfortunately when you are dealing with something like a divorce too many times the players start to feel that anything goes.

I think to a person we can agree that Nancy did not wear a halo, but does that mean she deserved death? Anything goes?

 

[unc70]

Do we know if the police or others looked at security video from places along possible jogging routes for NC? Either while she was missing or after her body was found? Anytime?

Probably none of the red light cameras would have been on a preferred route for joggers, but I really don't know that part of Cary that well. Are the cameras still up in Cary?

 

[LyndyLoo]

But even the notion that he flipped because he was 'losing control over her" doesn't add up. At the time of her death, I will readily admit that there were things he was doing to control her behavior, even hurt her. Contextually, though, they were in a divorce that had turned acrimonious. Both parties were doing things to hurt the other. She was running his name through the mud. And I know that doesn't sit well with the BDI group but NC was not a passive personality and as much as you would like to sanctify the victim you also need to be realistic. If all this were taking place outside the context of an adversarial relationship, I would say, you bet, he treated her badly, but unfortunately when you are dealing with something like a divorce too many times the players start to feel that anything goes.

I dont believe in my comment I even mentioned Nancy as sanctimonious..I said she was a social extroverted personality...anyway, Yes, Nancy was seeking separation and divorce and sort out of child custody...saw a lawyer, which her family gave her the money for..and Brad had no attny, his check or retainer given to his Family Law Rep...bouced..so no negotiations ever did get started..His knowledge of initial draft for separation he only saw, by having Nancy's emails copied and pasted to his email account...and the HATE grew from there...the "Breaking Up" of a family is always stressful, and in this case both adults showed complete lack of "communications" ..Nancy was able to vent her angers and distrust and frustrations to her network of friends and family, BUT Brad had NONE..He didnt talk to anyone, and he was unable to vent that slow burn and growing anger...

The old saying, the pot of water on a stove boils over when the lid is on, and it takes much more TIME to even boil if Lid is Off ..

 

[RaleighNative]

I honestly don't believe NC and BC were in love with each other - being together was mainly to preserve the family.

I agree with this, I think they were done with each other and I've had a hard time with the idea that because he didn't react to the news of her death the way some felt he should have then that means he killed her.

I mean you're talking about a guy that seemed to live his life in a remote, emotionally devoid manner and then add on top of that the acrimony he most like felt for her because of their problems....who knows how he should have acted.

I should have made a point #4 - Domestic Abuse.

All evidence based on NC's friends and her own actions (saying she was not concerned with her safety) points to that BC had never been physically abusive.

I don't believe there was ever any domestic violence in their relationship.

I think more the point is - Did BC have all he could take and just snap one night in a rage?

I don't think BC did snap... but I can see that just because there was no previous abuse, it doesn't mean he's innocent.

 

[RaleighNative]

I think to a person we can agree that Nancy did not wear a halo, but does that mean she deserved death? Anything goes?

Ghost isn't saying NC deserved her fate in any way.

If my life were under this kind of scrutiny, I certainly wouldn't have a halo on my head either. None of us would.

But I think more the point is - people are ready to point to BC's guilt due to his lack of a halo, and not evidence.

 

[unc70]

I think to a person we can agree that Nancy did not wear a halo, but does that mean she deserved death? Anything goes?

Of course not! And no one I have seen has come close to saying that. Those who have come the closest to saying that are supporters of the theory that she provoked BC enough that he snapped and killed her -- making her partially liable.

Before this is over, her reputation will be tarnished a lot more. Likely that several of her friends will suffer collateral damage in the process. Numerous witnesses have already had parts of their private lives placed in the public record -- their not passing an exam, their own personal indiscretions, their mistakes.