Post verdict discussion of evidence

[jrb0124]

Using Todd Willingham's arson case in TX as some kind of argument for Brad Cooper's strangulation case in NC is disingenuous, at best.

I will let you debate yourself,

I am amused watching people contort themselves into coming up with some other reason for the murder, other than the obvious one

You suggested that "coming up with some other reason for the murder, other than the obvious one" is amusing.

Todd Willingham was the "obvious one" according to LE, the State of Texas, its Governor, and about 90% of anyone following the trial.

He was later proven innocent, but unjustly convicted and executed.

So I ask you if you consider it amusing that anyone (prior to his proven innocence) would come up with some other reason for the death of his children?

 

[jrb0124]

I find it quite disturbing that Brad Cooper strangled the mother of his children, and discarded her naked body, face down in a drainage ditch, like yesterday's garbage.

If BC is innocent (to be determined), describing and characterizing the disposal of NC's body won't make him guilty.

 

[jilly]

Does this mean that paul bernardo will be elegible for parole after 25 years? Just curious as to the canadian system.

No. He was declared a "dangerous offender" meaning that he'd probably commit more crimes if he got out.
He'll be in there the rest of his life!

 

[jrb0124]

IIRC 2nd degree was also placed on the table by the so called "bias" judge. The jury said no for some reason to that verdict.

Exactly, defense did not want 2nd degree on the table, it could only help the prosecution at that point - hence another biased decision.

 

[gracielee]

If BC is innocent (to be determined), describing and characterizing the disposal of NC's body won't make him guilty.

Brad Cooper has been found GUILTY. A jury of 12 found him GUILTY. Our system demands 'innocent UNTIL proven guilty.' Well, he's now been proven guilty by a jury.

 

[jrb0124]

the so called "bias" judge

A bit off-topic here, but the next trial I plan to "follow" is this one:

Arraigned Offenses for Case Number: 2010001087 CRS
Arraigned Defendant Name: ABAROA,RAVEN,SAMUEL
County: DURHAM
Court Date: 08/01/2011
Session: AM
Court Room: 001S
0930 Felony MURDER 14-17

Right now, I think he is guilty - but I'll keep an open mind about it.

I took a peek at the Durham Superior Court calendar for 8/1, and lo and behold.

 

[jilly]

In one of the earlier trial day threads (I can't remember which, I think it was the same day the google search evidence was put in, or the day after) I commented that he is likely to try for a transfer. In Canada, a "life" sentence is 25 years and then you are eligible for parole. If he serves good time, he'd be out in 25 years for sure, and there is what is called the "faint hope" clause where you can apply to court to get parole in less than 25 years. He will have to wait until the appeal process is complete, and then he will have to convince both the NC government and the Canadian government to allow the transfer.

My understanding is that jails in the US are harsher than Canada, but I have no information to back that statement up.

Hi Calgary!

I highly doubt he'll be able to serve his sentence in Canada. It's 1st degree murder. As far as the 'faint hope clause' I also don't think he would have had a chance but aside from that since the Conservatives now have a majority government they will introduce legislation to repeal that clause.

I agree, the prisons in the US are tougher than Canada. I don't think the convicts in the US get an old age pension!

I think Cooper will serve his full 25 years. Do you ever see him confessing and having remorse? Of course he'll have his parole hearings but the Rentz family will be at every one of them to do their part so that he serves the full term.

 

[gracielee]

No. He was declared a "dangerous offender" meaning that he'd probably commit more crimes when he got out.
He'll be in there the rest of his life!

Is that written into the law? Again, not being argumentative, just curious. If Paul Bernardo should somehow display that he'd been completely rehabilitied in prison, *could* he then be considered for parole after 25 years? The reason my curiosity is peaked is because we know some of those really devious, manipulative types of criminals. Ted Bundy-ish. I'm hoping, regardless of future behavior, the "danerous offender" status remains.

 

[jrb0124]

Brad Cooper has been found GUILTY. A jury of 12 found him GUILTY. Our system demands 'innocent UNTIL proven guilty.' Well, he's now been proven guilty by a jury.

Has anyone found guilty by a jury ever been exonerated gracielee? If so, do consider that they were still 'guilty' during the period immediately after the verdict until their exoneration?

 

[Madeleine74]

Feelings of injustice will not free Brad Cooper nor sway any appellate judge. If the facts don't support and proof of judicial error cannot be found, the appeal will be denied.

 

[jrb0124]

Or perhaps some who are worried about Brad Cooper's case will help another <railroaded?> NC soul. One Jason L. Young about to go on trial for murdering his wife.

Those inclined to doubt BC's guilt do not do so because they think every defendent accused of murdering their wife is innocent, though conversely there are those that believe every defendent accused of murdering their wife is guilty.

Those inclined to doubt BC's guilt do so on the circumstances and merits of the case, realizing that the evidence in each is unique.

 

[jilly]

UNC, I don't know the answers to those questions.

Hi Jilly! JLY is right around the corner. I know you follow that one closely.

Ohhhh you better believe it! See you there!!!:hug:

 

[Madeleine74]

Those inclined to doubt BC's guilt do so on the circumstances and merits of the case, realizing that the evidence in each is unique.

And yet you compared BC's case to Todd Willingham's case of TX. :waitasec:

 

[gritguy]

And yet you compared BC's case to Todd Willingham's case of TX. :waitasec:

Well there is that idea that another poster pointed out that I had forgotten (repressed?) that NC died as an accident of her own making as part of an effort to frame Brad! :floorlaugh: That would erase at least some of the differences between the cases as at least some shallow thinkers have concluded, on the basis of I suppose no evidence, that NC was actually murdered. That's part of that "big tent" BII cabal that cannot distinguish between reasonable issues with the case and the need to entertain any idea, no matter how absurd, that ends with the conclusion that BII.

I give Kurtz much credit for not having gone off the deep end like that. He went down two avenues including unreliable evidence and failure to pursue viable suspects, both of which are within the realm of reason even if not accepted by the jury.

 

[jrb0124]

And yet you compared BC's case to Todd Willingham's case of TX. :waitasec:

Yes. Not in the details of the case, but in the sense that innocent men have been railroaded and convicted of 1st degree murder in the past. I thought that was obvious, it was in reply to your statement that you were amused that anyone could consider a suspect or circumstance other than "the obvious one".

I will add it to the list:

*LEO have tampered with or destroyed exculpatory evidence.

*SA's have risked their careers/reputation by engaging in misconduct detrimental to a defendent

*Witnesses for the State have lied under oath.

*LEO/State/Govt have railroaded innocent men, convicted them of first degree murder, and on occasion - executed them.

That's not just my opinion, that's the world we share.

 

[ohiogirl]

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9563005/

I didn't see this before, if already posted, please excuse. Looks like the jury is not ready to talk about this yet. But, this was last week. Anyone hear anything else?

 

[gritguy]

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9563005/

I didn't see this before, if already posted, please excuse. Looks like the jury is not ready to talk about this yet. But, this was last week. Anyone hear anything else?

Not yet. I'm surprised one of them hasn't spoken yet. I'll be very surprised if there is not a surprise in terms of what they thought was important to them during the trial.

 

[cassius]

Not yet. I'm surprised one of them hasn't spoken yet. I'll be very surprised if there is not a surprise in terms of what they thought was important to them during the trial.

Along those lines, I'll be interested to hear, if one of the jurors discloses such, what the initial poll was when they first started deliberating.

 

[unc70]

...

Yes, NC's phone got erased. That means LE didn't get any info off her phone either. Whatever information they got is from AT&T records. Don't you think LE would have wanted the phone info as well? Doh! They screwed that one up. It's something that should not have happened. But why does that mean Brad is automatically innocent and he should go free because a piece of evidence isn't available for anyone? It doesn't work that way.

I suspect that the CPD used a Cellibrite to sneak a peek at NC's phone without getting a SW. That is the only explanation I that explains their behavior when she first went missing and through the accidental erasure of the phone and the unexplained erasure of the sim, then the coverup and lying afterward.

ETA: If LE had wanted her phone records, why did they only request the billing detail level, not the forensic quality details which they did request for his phone. If you saw these actions by LE in some other case, is there anyone on here who would see it as other than a coverup of something on her phone. That something could involve something not obviously related to the main crime (murder of NC, in this case).

 

[Madeleine74]

... or.... something went wrong and the directions that were given either weren't followed exactly or some other mistake occurred or someone tampered with NC's phone before police ever got it.

Everyone who goes right for conspiracy doesn't know what happened...only that something happened. I can't imagine why CPD would see 'evidence' on NC's phone that might point to a perp and then not want to have that evidence. Sorry, but claiming they decided to make Brad the fall guy and thus erased any info that pointed to someone else is simply not believable.