GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #4

[tlcya]

Is it possible that he told LE he had checked the apartments? And then, once suspicion landed on him, they realized that they needed to double check. Once they found the "obvious" crime scene that he said he had already checked, well, that is pretty damning evidence against him all by itself.

But initially, I wouldn't blame LE for having the staff of the complex help them look. Especially for empty apartments where the staff could enter without needing a warrant.

I was thinking either that or maybe he was the person who was assigned to lead LE to all the vacant apartments and he simply skipped over that one.

Third option, someone else associated with the complex was in charge of leading LE to the vacant apartments and skipped that one.

IDK, I just know this really bothers me alot. Last night when I went to bed, I was totally convinced that RB acted alone and no one conspired to assist him. Now I am not feeling nearly as sure. I do think RB is the culprit, but now I am considering the possibility that something additional that we do not know about is also afoot.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Or it could be that that apt was vacated very recently - maybe even the old residents there "skipped" and therefore mgmt was not notified so they didn't know about it being vacant. That could also possibly explain why it was unlocked (if it was unlocked - we have no confirmation on that). But if it was abandoned, say sometime earlier that week - then maybe only he knew about it? IDK - jsut throwing stuff against the wall here.


JMHO

 

[abagale]

bbm

I've looked for that and only found it on a site I'd have to join. Here is what was said as it appears the original story has been updated.

"It's very, very disturbing," McFarland said.

McFarland told police he saw a white Honda running near the playground Friday evening for about an hour, but no one was inside. He isn't sure if the vehicle is a clue, but wanted to make sure he informed police, he said.


Well if what McFarland told police is true and If what he had seen was a vehicle "running near the playground Friday evening for about an hour", then that is a very important clue. IDK if it could explain why police didn't find that vacant apartment full of evidence. It could however explain why the dogs didn't find the child.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Random thoughts:

* Hindsight might be 20/20 but it hardly took hindsight to speculate that a maintenance worker and an empty apartment might play a role in this crime. A good number of people here suggested just that, and a day before she was discovered. In any case, in a potential crime like this everyone must be assumed to be a suspect.

Knowing this, I would expect the police to ask the apartment manager for a list and keys to every vacancy. Seeing that there were only 35 in the entire complex, and knowing that the crime (if it occured in a vacancy at all) like would have occured in one of the close buildings, it is reasonable to assume that even a half dozen officers with keys could have located this crime scene easily within a half hour of possessing those keys.

Further, we were told at some point, unless I am mistaken, that the apartment was unlocked. I will simply say, in my opinion, ANY reasonably professional door to door search, knocking when appropriate, turning the knob when it appears to apartment might not be rented, would likely have uncovered this crime scene before the apartment staff had even finished gathering up a list of vacancies and keys.

Finally, from day one I was astonished that the police had not sealed the dumpster, placed a guard on it, and had it removed. A freaking phone call to the management company or fire department would have seen that thing moved. Or are these cops trying to pretend that if a kid fell into the thing it would take an act of congress to roust out the waste management folks?

I do not believe I am not going out on a limb when I say that this chief of police needs to begin getting his resume in order.

 

[tlcya]

Or it could be that that apt was vacated very recently - maybe even the old residents there "skipped" and therefore mgmt was not notified so they didn't know about it being vacant. That could also possibly explain why it was unlocked (if it was unlocked - we have no confirmation on that). But if it was abandoned, say sometime earlier that week - then maybe only he knew about it? IDK - jsut throwing stuff against the wall here.


JMHO

Hmmm. But then that makes me wonder too. I would think that upon finding the blood spattered, non lock box bearing apartment, LE would have immediately put out a BOLO on the occupants who skipped. If the apartment complex was unaware of the skipping and the vacancy then the former occupants would be logical suspects.

I wish we knew the process and policies followed by the management company in regards to vacancies.

When exactly do vacant apartments get lock boxes? The boxes are useful for allowing contractors, workman, and other non-complex key carrying authorized folk to access vacant properties to attend to business without the constant need for the realtor/property manager to be going back and forth and letting them in.

So do all vacancies get lock boxes, or just the ones that need workmen or outside personnel to have access?

Knowing more about how vacancies in that complex are handled would be so useful about now

 

[maedlamsmom]

Do we know for sure what day the apartment was discovered? Or do we only know when the papers reported that the apartment was discovered?

Eta: did le say during pc, that the apartment was discovered on a specific day? I don't have the ability to watch it, so I really don't know. Tia!

 

[stilettos]

Random thoughts:

* Hindsight might be 20/20 but it hardly took hindsight to speculate that a maintenance worker and an empty apartment might play a role in this crime. A good number of people here suggested just that, and a day before she was discovered. In any case, in a potential crime like this everyone must be assumed to be a suspect.

Knowing this, I would expect the police to ask the apartment manager for a list and keys to every vacancy. Seeing that there were only 35 in the entire complex, and knowing that the crime (if it occured in a vacancy at all) like would have occured in one of the close buildings, it is reasonable to assume that even a half dozen officers with keys could have located this crime scene easily within a half hour of possessing those keys.

Further, we were told at some point, unless I am mistaken, that the apartment was unlocked. I will simply say, in my opinion, ANY reasonably professional door to door search, knocking when appropriate, turning the knob when it appears to apartment might not be rented, would likely have uncovered this crime scene before the apartment staff had even finished gathering up a list of vacancies and keys.

Finally, from day one I was astonished that the police had not sealed the dumpster, placed a guard on it, and had it removed. A freaking phone call to the management company or fire department would have seen that thing moved. Or are these cops trying to pretend that if a kid fell into the thing it would take an act of congress to roust out the waste management folks?

I do not believe I am not going out on a limb when I say that this chief of police needs to begin getting his resume in order.

I was going to snip your post to teh last sentence...but it was so spot on that I left it in it's entirety..WORD!

Your opinion that the Chief needs to dust off his resume...is shared by many. The manner in which this case was handled from the outset will (IMO) be reviewed. The initial investigation was not handled properly. MOO

 

[abagale]

:worms:

Random thoughts:

* Hindsight might be 20/20 but it hardly took hindsight to speculate that a maintenance worker and an empty apartment might play a role in this crime. A good number of people here suggested just that, and a day before she was discovered. In any case, in a potential crime like this everyone must be assumed to be a suspect.

Knowing this, I would expect the police to ask the apartment manager for a list and keys to every vacancy. Seeing that there were only 35 in the entire complex, and knowing that the crime (if it occured in a vacancy at all) like would have occured in one of the close buildings, it is reasonable to assume that even a half dozen officers with keys could have located this crime scene easily within a half hour of possessing those keys.

Further, we were told at some point, unless I am mistaken, that the apartment was unlocked. I will simply say, in my opinion, ANY reasonably professional door to door search, knocking when appropriate, turning the knob when it appears to apartment might not be rented, would likely have uncovered this crime scene before the apartment staff had even finished gathering up a list of vacancies and keys.

Finally, from day one I was astonished that the police had not sealed the dumpster, placed a guard on it, and had it removed. A freaking phone call to the management company or fire department would have seen that thing moved. Or are these cops trying to pretend that if a kid fell into the thing it would take an act of congress to roust out the waste management folks?

I do not believe I am not going out on a limb when I say that this chief of police needs to begin getting his resume in order.

I am sure the police have to have their warrants in order for this complex. Management is not just going to allow anyone to come in without written warrants. It is unfair that having to get all of those legal ducks in a row can cause time delays. Eliminating delays are crucial to the survival of the victims.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

You're right tl - especially about the former tenants. We just have no way of knowing when LE found it, who they contacted - anything. Perhaps the former tenants moved away - far away and it was easily verifiable that they were not even in the state of Florida when she was killed. Maybe only RB knew of that vacancy and therefore thought that the former tenants would be implicated and invetigated? IDK

 

[Chris_Texas]

Warning: descriptions of violence follows:

For those of you who have never actually seen, in person, the scene of a violent and bloody crime:

As a general rule, when the blood starts flying (as it apparently was in this case) it is damn near impossible to miss. Nor do you necessarily need arterial bleeding and what not to create un-freaking-imaginable blood splatters. Even blows and kicks routinely cause blood to fly. I am talking about the floors, the walls, the freaking ceiling. It gets EVERYWHERE. And while it eventually dried to a distinctive and unmistakable rustish color, until then it's red and gruesome and you would have to be blind to miss it.

I will be blunt: I have been biting my tongue since day one, telling myself that the police must have done all this obvious rookie stuff, and it turned up as a bust. But now we know they didn't bother. It is damn tough to excuse incompetence like this. Not noticing an obvious and bloody rape-murder crime scene? Not checking the unlocked and vacant apartments? Not bothering to secure the dumpster? This is unbelievable.

It makes you wonder what else they didn't bother to do.

One thing we do not need to wonder: we KNOW that had they done their job, secured the dumpster and immediately begun a search there, this child's body would have, at the worse, been recovered that first day -- assuming that they didn't intercept the guy dumping it in the first place.

 

[mellynyc]

I've been able to find that mom lived in these cities in NY:
Oakland Gardens, NY
Long Beach, NY
Levittown, NY
Whitestone, NY
Glendale, NY

FYI: This information is only being posted because RB could have possibly lived in one of these cities in NY.

Wow! I live in Glendale NY!!

 

[tlcya]

Much as I hate to think badly of LE in any jurisdiction, I hope this was not initially mishandled by Canton LE.

LE has such a difficult job it feels awful to even be doubting them, I respect the profession so much.

But this whole case troubles me. The glaring fact that THE crime scene was right there and was never searched til GBI became involved.

I know I am probably grasping at straws with the whole maybe someone else misled them angle but man, I really hate to believe that LE screwed up so badly.

Also niggling at the back of my brain is the thought.

What are the odds that a not real bright child killer, does the following:

kidnaps a child from his work/home

Takes her to a vacant apartment, also at his home/work and horrifically murders her

Leaves the apartment (DOOR UNLOCKED to boot) covered in blood spatter and then sticks around to "help" in the search for said child

Sticks around and acts as if nothing has happened through LE and GBI involvement (DOOR STILL UNLOCKED?)

and then to cap it all off - LE just happens to miss that very (DOOR STILL UNLOCKED?) blood spattered apartment on their sweep?

This whole thing is just too danged bizarre.

 

[abagale]

You're right tl - especially about the former tenants. We just have no way of knowing when LE found it, who they contacted - anything. Perhaps the former tenants moved away - far away and it was easily verifiable that they were not even in the state of Florida when she was killed. Maybe only RB knew of that vacancy and therefore thought that the former tenants would be implicated and invetigated? IDK

You are right. It is possible that the former tenants moved away, broke their lease. Perhaps RB knew this information. He being in the position to check apartments all of the time. He could have noticed the former tenants moving out late one night. He may have noticed that and decided not to report it to management. He could have used this convenience to his favor. It makes sense. Most tenants' rent begins and is due on the 1st of each month. Jorelys was reported missing on the 2nd. It makes my head spin to think this, but that's probably what happened.

 

[Chris_Texas]

:worms:


I am sure the police have to have their warrants in order for this complex. Management is not just going to allow anyone to come in without written warrants. It is unfair that having to get all of those legal ducks in a row can cause time delays. Eliminating delays are crucial to the survival of the victims.

I would assume that securing any needed warrants would require no more than an hour or so.

However, I cannot IMAGINE that the apartment complex would deny them permission to search vacant units, and if they grant permission then no warrant is needed. Further, in any case where the police have a reasonable belief that a crime is in progress and someone's life is in danger, including in your home, they don't need a warrant. Obviously, they would later need to justify their actions if they did not have permission to search (we knew a kid was missing, and we heard a scream from inside apartment 23, so we entered). In other words, they cannot start kicking in people's doors and searching every occupied apartment, but that's not what we are discussing when talking about a door to door search.

But again, there is no way in hell this complex's management refused to grant them permission to search. That's just not gonna happen.

 

[tlcya]

The whole unlocked apartment thing is bugging me. Who does that? Who kills someone and then leaves the door unlocked to the crime scene?

Wondering just what keys RB had access to in his duties. We do not even know if he had access to apartments. Could he have left he place unlocked, thinking when things cooled down he would try to go back and clean up? Was the door unlocked because he had no means to get back in?

Very puzzling.

 

[Bravo]

Not going to pass judgement on LE and handling this case until I have all the facts. For now i don't have enough of the facts to pass judgement. Just sayin......I have no idea what the perp may have told LE to avoid an immediate search of that apt. I would guess LE would want to move searches along quickly in case Jorelys had been abducted and taken off premises. Small window of time from abduction to murder of a child. MOO

 

[abagale]

Much as I hate to think badly of LE in any jurisdiction, I hope this was not initially mishandled by Canton LE.

LE has such a difficult job it feels awful to even be doubting them, I respect the profession so much.

But this whole case troubles me. The glaring fact that THE crime scene was right there and was never searched til GBI became involved.

I know I am probably grasping at straws with the whole maybe someone else misled them angle but man, I really hate to believe that LE screwed up so badly.

Also niggling at the back of my brain is the thought.

What are the odds that a not real bright child killer, does the following:

kidnaps a child from his work/home

Takes her to a vacant apartment, also at his home/work and horrifically murders her

Leaves the apartment (DOOR UNLOCKED to boot) covered in blood spatter and then sticks around to "help" in the search for said child

Sticks around and acts as if nothing has happened through LE and GBI involvement (DOOR STILL UNLOCKED?)

and then to cap it all off - LE just happens to miss that very (DOOR STILL UNLOCKED?) blood spattered apartment on their sweep?

This whole thing is just too danged bizarre.

As you can see in snippet no.# 73. I got the missed vacant apartment down. I understand why LE missed it. I just can't get passed the dogs not finding anything. I am thinking that the dogs are an important tool to finding the child fast. Am I wrong to think this?

 

[tlcya]

The apartment complex would have no reason to bar Canton LE access to this particular apartment when they gave LE access to search their other vacants.

I just cannot figure how this one very important apartment was not discovered during the search.

For instance, the log says that on Dec. 3, the day after Jorelys vanished, police searched the River Ridge complex, building by building. That afternoon, it says, officers were specifically “checking all vacant apts at river ridge.”

About 10 percent of the 356 units are vacant, according to the property manager.

According to state investigators, there was no mistaking that something ghastly had happened in one particular unit; there was blood everywhere — on the walls as well as the floor.

Yet, police did not find that scene, which was determined Monday to be the place where Jorelys had been beaten and stabbed.

http://www.ajc.com/news/a-vigil-and-...g-1255879.html

How did this ONE specific vacant apartment not get searched?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

We haven't had any official confirmation that the door was unlocked - have we and maybe I missed it? IIRC all that was said was that it was a vacant apt.

IF it was a newly vacated apt and the tenants skipped on the lease - then maybe the door was locked but you could get in through the back (patio or glass sliding door)?

IF the tenants had skipped - it being only the 2nd of the month - mgmt would not have that apt listed as a vacancy and would have had a tenant name.

IF the door was locked and it wasn't known at the time that the tenants had vacated - then when LE knocked and no one answered - then they would have had to move on and wait for the tenants to return (thinking they were out, working, shopping, whatever). As the numbers of apts checked dwindled - then they would have gone back to check it - then possibly going around back to find it open that way?

Again, I have no idea - just thinking out loud about how this apt stayed under the radar.

JMHO

 

[Chris_Texas]

The whole unlocked apartment thing is bugging me. Who does that? Who kills someone and then leaves the door unlocked to the crime scene?

Wondering just what keys RB had access to in his duties. We do not even know if he had access to apartments. Could he have left he place unlocked, thinking when things cooled down he would try to go back and clean up? Was the door unlocked because he had no means to get back in?
Very puzzling.

That's my take on it.

he had to either leave it unlocked or somehow get the keys to it later. He's a maintenance guy -- he doesn't have a master key to every door in the complex. There is probably a keyboard or lockbox in the office with the keys to the individual units.