GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #4

[tlcya]

thanks abagal, I think you or WOO may be right. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that for whatever reason, LE was unaware that specific apartment was vacant. I just want to figure out why they may have been unaware.

I agree Bravo, I am not one to bash LE without loads of reason first, that is why I am trying so hard to figure out how this happened. I am looking for anything that would make this make sense.

 

[katydid23]

I wondered and posted to the fact.

Why did it take them so long to find the apartment? I even commented on the fact that maybe if RB was helping in the search he could have directed or kept them away from that particular apartment. I think that is why he helped to make sure they didn't find it. jmo

Which is why I wonder where the apt. manager is and was. Surely LE would have gone to the highest authority at the scene for information concerning vacancies, and not a random 20 yr old employee. I hope so anyway.

 

[Chris_Texas]

The apartment complex would have no reason to bar Canton LE access to this particular apartment when they gave LE access to search their other vacants.

I just cannot figure how this one very important apartment was not discovered during the search.

For instance, the log says that on Dec. 3, the day after Jorelys vanished, police searched the River Ridge complex, building by building. That afternoon, it says, officers were specifically “checking all vacant apts at river ridge.”

About 10 percent of the 356 units are vacant, according to the property manager.

According to state investigators, there was no mistaking that something ghastly had happened in one particular unit; there was blood everywhere — on the walls as well as the floor.

Yet, police did not find that scene, which was determined Monday to be the place where Jorelys had been beaten and stabbed.

http://www.ajc.com/news/a-vigil-and-...g-1255879.html

How did this ONE specific vacant apartment not get searched?

Did any of them actually get searched?

 

[katydid23]

That's my take on it.

he had to either leave it unlocked or somehow get the keys to it later. He's a maintenance guy -- he doesn't have a master key to every door in the complex. There is probably a keyboard or lockbox in the office with the keys to the individual units.

If it was me, I would leave it unlocked, to make it appear as if anyone could have gone in there.

 

[tlcya]

Keenan said the crime happened at an unlocked vacant apartment unit adjacent to where Jorelys resided with her family.

Read more: Cherokee Tribune - Jorelys Rivera died of blunt force trauma to head http://cherokeetribune.com/view/ful...rce-trauma-to-head?instance=home_news_bullets

He said there was no evidence of forced entry into the apartment. It was unlocked. Asked how far the vacant unit is from Jorelys' home, Keenan said, "The buildings are adjacent to each other."

The GBI director told reporters Tuesday that investigators felt "very strongly" that Jorelys' killer "resides in ... or has ready access" to the apartment community. Several registered sex offenders live at River Ridge, but Keenan said there was "no reason to believe at this point that the sex offenders are involved." http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/arrest-made-in-jorelys-rivera-case#video-8645169

 

[abagale]

I have to admit that I want the reason the dogs didn't find her is...They had taken her off the premises for a short period. That is the only elimination for me as to why those dogs didn't find her. Is this RB so cunning that even he can escape the precision of these specialized dogs. This is really bugging me.

 

[katydid23]

Not going to pass judgement on LE and handling this case until I have all the facts. For now i don't have enough of the facts to pass judgement. Just sayin......I have no idea what the perp may have told LE to avoid a immediate search of that apt. I would guess LE would want to move searches along quickly in case Jorelys had been abducted and taken off premises. Small window of time from abduction to murder of a child. MOO

I know they were searching cars leaving the area and they were searching the woods behind the complex. I kind of feel they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I am sure they originally thought that if she was abducted. she was moved somewhere quickly. If they had put all of their resources into searching the 356 apartments immediately, and then found her in the woods a mile away, they would have been criticized for that as well. imoo

 

[tlcya]

I am not as troubled about the lack of the dogs success in trailing her. Trailing dogs are very specifically trained to seek out a scent. Jorleys, was all over that complex with limited supervision (not finger pointing or judging, just stating a known fact) so her scent would be as well. Trailing dogs are seeking tiny unseeable scent cones put of by skin cells. I can imagine that the dogs may have been confused by the sheer volume of her scent available all over. Plus the scent does not hang there forever, there is a time limit involved.

We are not even sure what sort of dogs were used that I know of or how well trained they and their handlers were.

The only coverage I have seen talks about drug sniffing dogs being used to search cars coming and going. All search dogs are not trained in all types of searching. The dogs used may not have been the best for the circumstances of this case. We just don't have enough info on the dogs and the searches to know

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Keenan said the crime happened at an unlocked vacant apartment unit adjacent to where Jorelys resided with her family.

Read more: Cherokee Tribune - Jorelys Rivera died of blunt force trauma to head http://cherokeetribune.com/view/ful...rce-trauma-to-head?instance=home_news_bullets

He said there was no evidence of forced entry into the apartment. It was unlocked. Asked how far the vacant unit is from Jorelys' home, Keenan said, "The buildings are adjacent to each other."

The GBI director told reporters Tuesday that investigators felt "very strongly" that Jorelys' killer "resides in ... or has ready access" to the apartment community. Several registered sex offenders live at River Ridge, but Keenan said there was "no reason to believe at this point that the sex offenders are involved." http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/arrest-made-in-jorelys-rivera-case#video-8645169

Thank you!!!! Even though they are saying it was unlocked - it could have been left unlocked from the "back". Glass sliding door and/or patio door. That one I lived in - we had a screened in patio with 2 sets of glass sliding doors inside that patio. Of course the screened patio door would have been so easy to get into (in fact, there were several in the complex where you could visibly see the "L-shaped cut" and the lil flap of screen blowing in the wind where people had cut it to get in. Once in the patio you had to deal with the glass sliding doors.

I'm just thinking that the "unlocked" part of that pat was around the back and that the main front door was locked. LE missed it at first because even the complex mgmt didn't have it listed as vacant. Then when re-checking to see all the apts they had visited - this one kept coming up and finally LE got real interested and went around back.

This bldg 10 was right up against the property line in the back. Narrow walkway behind the bldg (and also the bldg JR lived in). Leaving that back open - you could be fairly confident that no one would find it. After all - who goes back there?

IDK - again just my specualtion and all but I kinda think that's how this happened. RB thought he was being so cunning because only he knew about this "newly vacated" one.

JMHO

 

[Bravo]

thanks abagal, I think you or WOO may be right. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that for whatever reason, LE was unaware that specific apartment was vacant. I just want to figure out why they may have been unaware.

I agree Bravo, I am not one to bash LE without loads of reason first, that is why I am trying so hard to figure out how this happened. I am looking for anything that would make this make sense.

No worries tlcox. Yes i agree so many unanswered questions. I'm sure it will come out at some point. One thing we do know is he would have access to the apt. easily as he would know where a master key was. I wonder if he diverted LE and stall in hopes of having time to clean up? Perhaps not and he simply didn't care if he was caught.

 

[tlcya]

I love you WOO, that is brilliant. Maybe that is the situation.

 

[Bravo]

Which is why I wonder where the apt. manager is and was. Surely LE would have gone to the highest authority at the scene for information concerning vacancies, and not a random 20 yr old employee. I hope so anyway.

Wonder if the Manager appointed "him" to escort LE to unoccupied Apts? to save LE time? Or perhaps he offered?

 

[vlpate]

That's my take on it.

he had to either leave it unlocked or somehow get the keys to it later. He's a maintenance guy -- he doesn't have a master key to every door in the complex. There is probably a keyboard or lockbox in the office with the keys to the individual units.

Maintenance leave vacants unlocked sometimes so that the vendors can go in and out without them having to go to the office and get keys. It's not a good practice, it's just reality. Many offices have keys coded, but 9 times out of ten, the code sheet is nearby and a 3 year old could figure it out. If he was told to trash out the apartment and do basic make-ready stuff, which a porter does, it may have been unlocked for him, or he was given the key. He could have returned the key after leaving a window unlocked in order to get back in and unlock it later.

To get an apartment ready for a new tenant, these are the individuals who usually have to gain access - and in the order they would need to go in:
Manager - walks the unit to assess damages
Lead Maintenance - walks unit to schedule work to be done
Porter - trashes out (removes trash and anything else left behind)
does a basic make-ready (removes caulk, takes electrical and switch plates off to soak, takes down bad blinds, etc.)
Make-ready - Makes sure all appliances, electrical, and plumbing items work - sometimes the make-ready paints the apartment
Painter - paints
re-surfacer - shoots bad tubs and counter tops
Carpet layer if new carpet is being laid
Housekeeper
Carpet shampooer
Locks are changed

Sometimes this all happens in the span of two days - the novelty of taking out and putting back keys in a busy office or by maintenance is a pain and they let it slide from the porter on. However, I thought I read these vacant units had lock boxes. I know I read that in one report, the apartment upstairs. Maybe it was a lock-out knob that had been placed there on a delinquent tenant.

 

[tlcya]

Wonder if the Manager appointed "him" to escort LE to unoccupied Apts? to save LE time? Or perhaps he offered?

That is something I have wondered as well.

List of questions I have so far

What dogs were used in the searching and how were they used?

Was this apartment one that was known to be vacant to the onsite manager, and further, if it was, did the management company also know of its vacancy?

What possible routes could RB have used to come and go from the crime scene and how visible were they to others?

How long had this apartment been vacant?

If it was known to be vacant by management, what state of post move out cleanup was it in? How soon was it going to be ready for showings/re rental?

Exactly how extensive was RB's access to varying areas of the complex? What keys did he have or have ready access to?

 

[bunky]

Not going to pass judgement on LE and handling this case until I have all the facts. For now i don't have enough of the facts to pass judgement. Just sayin......I have no idea what the perp may have told LE to avoid an immediate search of that apt. I would guess LE would want to move searches along quickly in case Jorelys had been abducted and taken off premises. Small window of time from abduction to murder of a child. MOO

You said that well and I agree. To me it sounds like assumptions about LE and its inaccuraces are coming without full knowledge of what was and wasn't done the evening Jorely disappeared.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

tl - it HAD to have been a fairly recent vacany and one that mgmt did NOT know about. He knew he was free to come and go (through the back) and that no one (other maintenance, vendors, mgmt) would come in there. It was only the 2nd of the month - you usually have to at least the 5th, if not the 10th, to pay the rent before mgmt starts to take action.

He was comfortable in knowing that he "had this apt" and it would very much undetected for at least a few days, so he could carry out this sick crime.

Also, I do think he carried her out and put her in the dumpster through that "back property line". He would have walked behind the buildings (it was probably already dark or close) and when he emerged from the last bldg along that back line, it was only a few more steps to the compactor. He threw her in - then all he had to do was walk across the parking lot to his bldg. right there. Mike Brooks showed all the locations the other day on HLN and I knew right then that he had carried her outta there and to the compactor that night with little or no observation.

JHMO

 

[vlpate]

Thank you!!!! Even though they are saying it was unlocked - it could have been left unlocked from the "back". Glass sliding door and/or patio door. That one I lived in - we had a screened in patio with 2 sets of glass sliding doors inside that patio. Of course the screened patio door would have been so easy to get into (in fact, there were several in the complex where you could visibly see the "L-shaped cut" and the lil flap of screen blowing in the wind where people had cut it to get in. Once in the patio you had to deal with the glass sliding doors.

I'm just thinking that the "unlocked" part of that pat was around the back and that the main front door was locked. LE missed it at first because even the complex mgmt didn't have it listed as vacant. Then when re-checking to see all the apts they had visited - this one kept coming up and finally LE got real interested and went around back.

This bldg 10 was right up against the property line in the back. Narrow walkway behind the bldg (and also the bldg JR lived in). Leaving that back open - you could be fairly confident that no one would find it. After all - who goes back there?

IDK - again just my specualtion and all but I kinda think that's how this happened. RB thought he was being so cunning because only he knew about this "newly vacated" one.

JMHO

BEM: Hmmm, this is VERY interesting WOO. Knowing shady managers the way I do, I've had my share, this sounds very familiar. I am wondering now if this apartment was not showing up as a vacant because the manager had taken it off the vacancy list on purpose. There was a mattress in the apartment - have we heard of anything else in the apartment? I think saying they took out a bloody mattress means just that, it doesn't mean there was no other furniture or belongings. The manager could have been letting her son and the stay there, yet showing it on her books as a down unit or a model. When the said he was going to get a free apartment and 1,200 per month for being a porter, that sounded awfully strange. Porters usually make minimum wage, and at most, get a small percentage off their apartment. We give 20%. Only the manager and the lead are allowed a free or highly discounted apartment. I've not heard of it since the 80's for all apartment personnel.

The manager would have definitely hidden this apartment from LE because she wouldn't want to get in trouble with her company and lose her job.

Can you tell me where to go to find this information about the apartment not showing up as vacant when they first started looking?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

We don't have any confirmation that this apt showed up as vacant or not. That was just me speculating. As for her son and RB - they were listed as living in an apt in bldg 12 - right across from the compactor - so I don't think that was the case.

As for the rest of what you said - you're right. Mgmt could have been keeping this one under wraps for any kind of varying nefarious reasons - but I don't think that was the case.

JMHO but I think this apt had jsut been vacated and that the tenants "skipped" and no one but RB knew about it. But that is JMHO.

 

[bunky]

Was it reported who showed LE the empty apartments?

 

[tlcya]

vlpate, this would make total sense ecxept didn't they also search RB and roommates apartment? This led me to believe they had an actual apartment (on the books) and that it was a separate apartment from the crime scene one. I think we even discussed the addresses of the varying apartments in trying to determine their proximity on the last thread.

I do agree that 1200 a month seems very high for porter wage. But that figure IIRC came from RB's braggy FB posts in the argument with the guy over the money and the x-box, so I chalked that up to exaggeration to impress the other guy.