TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[otto]

She was found in a cemetary near a giant cross. That implies to me that maybe the person who killed her had some remorse, which implies someone who knew her.

Picture of the Cross Here: http://www.stategazette.com/story/1793716.html

The body was found in a place that is normally covered in kudzu, approximately 100 yards from a tall metal cross that sits high on a bluff. The cross is visible looking south from Highway 78, close to the Obion River Bridge.

Kudzu is always thick - it covers everything. The kudzu did not die this year until after Halloween because Tennessee didn't have freezing temps until then. It takes a frost down in the 20s to really kill the leaves, so it died quite a while after her body was left there.

I doubt in the dark at night with their mind racing that this person studied the plant life. They might not have realized it was kudzu in the dark. I think this was a crime of passion and was quickly covered up. I think the person wasn't familiar with the fact that in winter only roots and vines were showing at the back of the old cemetery.

That giant cross is the 2006 Tornado Memorial

 

[otto]

Exactly!! The husband watched his dog go to the neighbors and he came back sick. The dog was taken to the vet and kept overnight for observation and returned home the next morning. I have always believed that the neighbor had either set out poison for some other animal or rodent that had been a problem, not realizing that stray dogs would come along, or, that he just had some chemical in an old can in his garage. Karen went to the neighbors house and the guy was not home but she saw a pan of something blue and figured it was poisonous. I wondered if it was his actual intent to poison dogs, or it just happened that way. moo

People are supposed to keep their dogs on their own property ... and people in rural districts have been known to use poisons (legally) to deal with noxious weeds and, as you say, rodents. I don't think it can be concluded that any crime was committed unless the neighbor put out some meat laced with something that kills dogs.

 

[otto]

I don't see a cross. :waitasec:


ETA: Nevermind found it. The cross is by the cemetery and not where her body was.

The body was found between the 2006 Tornado Memorial and the Cemetery - on the same side of the cemetery road as the Memorial.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Back to the tire being "off the rim", my guess is logically the bead was broken. The bead is where the tire makes contact with the rim and seals in the air on a tubless tire, which is the norm for cars and pick-ups since at least the 60s. Two common ways for the bead to be broken is to run the tire flat, especially turning corners on a flat tire. The second most common would be a hard blow to the tire such as running into a curb or other stationary object that would impact the tire. I hope this helps.

 

[otto]

Back to the tire being "off the rim", my guess is logically the bead was broken. The bead is where the tire makes contact with the rim and seals in the air on a tubless tire, which is the norm for cars and pick-ups since at least the 60s. Two common ways for the bead to be broken is to run the tire flat, especially turning corners on a flat tire. The second most common would be a hard blow to the tire such as running into a curb or other stationary object that would impact the tire. I hope this helps.

There's also the possibility that someone is messing with the tires. I know of someone that had ongoing tire issues for a couple of years ... numerous punctures (like nails), broken bead without running flat or riding curbs. The repair shop started doing repairs for free since it was such a regular occurance.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

There's also the possibility that someone is messing with the tires. I know of someone that had ongoing tire issues for a couple of years ... numerous punctures (like nails), broken bead without running flat or riding curbs. The repair shop started doing repairs for free since it was such a regular occurance.

I ran my own garage for many years, also worked in a tire shop doing front end alignments and repairs. If a bead is sealed properly, it takes a good amount of force (air pressure and large bead breaker) to accomplish this. I'm not saying your story is off, it could be that the bead wasn't sealing properly to begin with, IF someone was deliberately breaking the bead.

 

[otto]

I ran my own garage for many years, also worked in a tire shop doing front end alignments and repairs. If a bead is sealed properly, it takes a good amount of force (air pressure and large bead breaker) to accomplish this. I'm not saying your story is off, it could be that the bead wasn't sealing properly to begin with, IF someone was deliberately breaking the bead.

I don't know all the details. Is it possible that if a tire is perhaps too small or under inflated the bead can break?

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I don't know all the details. Is it possible that if a tire is perhaps too small or under inflated the bead can break?

Yes it is, especially under inflated. If the car had aluminum rims, it increases the chances of a bead breaking prematurely. Also rust on a steel rim or if the tire was not properly seated to the rim. Michelin in fact suggests once the tire is seated, usually denoted with a loud bang when the air is applied, to fully discharge all air from the tire and then refill to the proper PSI (pounds per square inch). Most shops however will only let out air enough to acheive the proper psi without totally deflating the tire because it saves them time.
A tire too narrow for the rim used will also break away from the bead prematurely if bumped or run under inflated.

 

[otto]

If we suppose that Karen was driving the vehicle and got a screw in the tire (not from the house cleaning job she had ... since that was a foreclosure mess), the tire started to deflate and she kept driving, then it's possible that she ran the tire down until it completely came off the rim. However, if she was quite a distance from home, she would have known to pull over and call for assistance. If there is no record of her calling home about the flat tire, then that scenario did not happen. A slow leak caused by a screw would give the driver plenty of time to realize there was a problem ... long before the tire was shredded. I do recall that it was a front tire that was flat, and most vehicles have front wheel drive now, so a flat front wheel should have had some impact on the steering. Since the tire was shredded I'm inclined to think that was part of the staging. There's just something fishy about driving on a flat until the tire is off the rim up to the point of being 1/4 mile from home and then not driving the last 1/4 mile ... the tire and rim probably have to be replaced by that time, so what's another 1/4 mile?

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

If we suppose that Karen was driving the vehicle and got a screw in the tire (not from the house cleaning job she had ... since that was a foreclosure mess), the tire started to deflate and she kept driving, then it's possible that she ran the tire down until it completely came off the rim. However, if she was quite a distance from home, she would have known to pull over and call for assistance. If there is no record of her calling home about the flat tire, then that scenario did not happen. A slow leak caused by a screw would give the driver plenty of time to realize there was a problem ... long before the tire was shredded. I do recall that it was a front tire that was flat, and most vehicles have front wheel drive now, so a flat front wheel should have had some impact on the steering. Since the tire was shredded I'm inclined to think that was part of the staging. There's just something fishy about driving on a flat until the tire is off the rim up to the point of being 1/4 mile from home and then not driving the last 1/4 mile ... the tire and rim probably have to be replaced by that time, so what's another 1/4 mile?

Exactly, once tire and rim are ruined you might as well drive slowly the last 1/4 mile. Now if the perp used her car (which I think they/ he / she) did, to take her to the cemetery, they may have run into a rock, edge of a culvert or some other obstacle which knocked the tire away from the bead. Was the car not found at an intersection IIRC? Do we know if there is a curb there?
The reason I think the perp(s) used her car is LE has stated that evidence was found in the car to suggest she was not killed somewhere else (depending on the news report we choose to take as fact). I'm thinking that "evidence" could well be kadzu leaves, seeds, or some other debris from the area her body was found. JMO Well thought out post otto.

 

[Joe Friday]

I think what the sheriff meant by "the tire was off the rim" what that the tire was not beaded on the rim.


When a car is driven on a flat tire, the tire will sometimes come off the bead of the rim. For the tire to come completely off the rim would take a considerable amount of driving. I don't think the car was driven that far on a flat tire.

Since we seen picture of the drivers side of the car and all the tires looked to be inflated and on the bead, I think one of the tires on the passenger side of the car must have been the one that was flat. Karen (or who ever was driving the car) was said to have made a U-turn and parked where the car was found. When she (they) made a U-turn in the road that would have caused the tire to roll in such a way that it could have debeaded the tire from the rim.

But the fact of the matter is that the car was likely driven on the flat tire to debeaded the tire from the rim. That goes a lot towards the staging of the car theory. It debunks the theory that the car was driven to the location where it was found and the air let out of the tire. Also the drywall screw being found in the tire eliminates the fact that the tire was slashed/slit. If David was the perp, I don't think he would have intentionally flattened the tire with a drywall screw then drove the car down the road to cause the tire to debead from the rim and parked the car where it was found. I think the flat tire was an unfortunate thing that happened to Karen or who ever was driving the car that early morning.

A debeaded tire:

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't see a cross. :waitasec:


ETA: Nevermind found it. The cross is by the cemetery and not where her body was.

The cross is 100 yards from where the body was, according to that article I posted.

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1793716.html

Let's put it another way - her body was as close to the cross as it could get from the graveyard side, considering all the kudzu. There was nothing but vegetation between her body and the cross.

 

[Joe Friday]

If we suppose that Karen was driving the vehicle and got a screw in the tire (not from the house cleaning job she had ... since that was a foreclosure mess), the tire started to deflate and she kept driving, then it's possible that she ran the tire down until it completely came off the rim. However, if she was quite a distance from home, she would have known to pull over and call for assistance. If there is no record of her calling home about the flat tire, then that scenario did not happen. A slow leak caused by a screw would give the driver plenty of time to realize there was a problem ... long before the tire was shredded. I do recall that it was a front tire that was flat, and most vehicles have front wheel drive now, so a flat front wheel should have had some impact on the steering. Since the tire was shredded I'm inclined to think that was part of the staging. There's just something fishy about driving on a flat until the tire is off the rim up to the point of being 1/4 mile from home and then not driving the last 1/4 mile ... the tire and rim probably have to be replaced by that time, so what's another 1/4 mile?

BBM


Where did you see the information that the tire was shredded??? I don't ever recall seeing any information about the tire's condition other than it was flat up until the other day when Sheriff Box said a drywall screw was found in the tire. But still he never said the tire was shredded.

 

[Joe Friday]

Exactly, once tire and rim are ruined you might as well drive slowly the last 1/4 mile. Now if the perp used her car (which I think they/ he / she) did, to take her to the cemetery, they may have run into a rock, edge of a culvert or some other obstacle which knocked the tire away from the bead. Was the car not found at an intersection IIRC? Do we know if there is a curb there?
The reason I think the perp(s) used her car is LE has stated that evidence was found in the car to suggest she was not killed somewhere else (depending on the news report we choose to take as fact). I'm thinking that "evidence" could well be kadzu leaves, seeds, or some other debris from the area her body was found. JMO Well thought out post otto.

BBM

There are no curbs where the car was found.

 

[LaWanda]

I wonder if she stopped there because of the houses? Maybe there were lights on and she thought she would be safe there for a few minutes. So she starts to call home, but it's 2:00 in the morning by this point. A car comes by and pulls up. A guy gets out and since he looks pretty harmless, she rolls down her window. It turns out, the guy wants her car (or her?) so he forces her into his car. Takes her to the cemetery because he knows no one goes there at 2 in the morning. He tries to rape her. She fights, he kills her. He gets out and tosses her in the kudzu, not knowing that the kudzu will die off in a matter of months and goes about his business. He didn't touch her car so no fingerprints.

Just tossing that out there. I haven't read the first thread, just saw the info that she had been found and jumped in halfway through this one.

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if she stopped there because of the houses? Maybe there were lights on and she thought she would be safe there for a few minutes. So she starts to call home, but it's 2:00 in the morning by this point. A car comes by and pulls up. A guy gets out and since he looks pretty harmless, she rolls down her window. It turns out, the guy wants her car (or her?) so he forces her into his car. Takes her to the cemetery because he knows no one goes there at 2 in the morning. He tries to rape her. She fights, he kills her. He gets out and tosses her in the kudzu, not knowing that the kudzu will die off in a matter of months and goes about his business. He didn't touch her car so no fingerprints.

Just tossing that out there. I haven't read the first thread, just saw the info that she had been found and jumped in halfway through this one.

One of Karen's friends told us that there IS a POI and that LE is treading carefully to build their case. If she is correct in her info, I think that rules out a random stranger. Hoping DNA on her body will tell the tale...and if it is her husband's DNA by chance, I hope we are not going to hear the old story of "consensual sex"...JMO

But I am not convinced either way at this point...the main thing that makes me lean toward the husband is I can't see any reason for her to go out again after bringing her child home, none that make any sense. Not buying the going for meds theory, not without telling the other adult in the home.

 

[LaWanda]

Hmm ... Good Point. Has anyone said if she had a new man in her life? Or a Prospect? Maybe she went out to meet someone? ...

 

[cluciano63]

Hmm ... Good Point. Has anyone said if she had a new man in her life? Or a Prospect? Maybe she went out to meet someone? ...

No new man to anyone's knowledge...seems like it would be hard secret to keep in a small town, in my opinion. Her friends have said she was focused only on her kids and getting her finances together for the future, as far as I know.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

From the photo above, I would say any male in any of those homes within sight of the vehicle location should be looked at closely. Did any of those people have a male guest staying with them at the time.

 

[cocomod]

One of Karen's friends told us that there IS a POI and that LE is treading carefully to build their case. If she is correct in her info, I think that rules out a random stranger. Hoping DNA on her body will tell the tale...and if it is her husband's DNA by chance, I hope we are not going to hear the old story of "consensual sex"...JMO

<snipped for emphasis>

BBM - If this is true, it makes me still wonder if it is the husband. I am still on the fence, but I lean heavily towards his guilt for many reasons stated throughtout these threads.

I would imagine that they would want to build their case and be certain if it is him. They would not want to falsely arrest him and ruin his reputation / career / family life. They will want to be certain that they do not make an error, and they likely do not think he will run because of his family. IMHO