TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[Joe Friday]

Why did it take so long to find her car along the road???
Did I miss something? TIA

Karen's car was originally discovered along side of the road at I believe 5:30 AM the morning she went missing by a neighbor that pulled up behind the car and said she was not inside as he was going to work. (I would be interested in knowing which direction this neighbor would have turned from Harness Rd onto Millsfield Hwy to go to work. If he turned south (a right hand turn) than he had to do a U-turn to pull in behind Karen's car. If he turned north (a left hand turn) than I doubt he would have seen the car parked down the road in the dark at all. Kind of makes you wonder if he did head to the north how he seen the car there to begin with.)

Than David apparently left the house at around 6:30 AM and also found the car parked along Millsfield Hwy. This was after the daughter awoke at 6:00 AM to notice Karen was no longer sleeping in bed with her and she was now sleeping in bed in her sisters room. I don't know if we are clear on if the daughter awoke David to tell him that Karen was no where to be found, or the neighbor that found the car called David to tell him that Karen's car was parked down the road with a flat tire or if David just ventured out on his own looking for her. Which as I have said in the past would have been pretty odd if his phone records or hers show no record of David trying to contact Karen prior to leaving the house.

So to answer your question, the car was found not more then 4-5 hours after Karen was last seen.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm sure I missed it, but if her car was found by 6am, why was she not reported missing until late that afternoon? Or do I have this wrong?

 

[Joe Friday]

I'm sure I missed it, but if her car was found by 6am, why was she not reported missing until late that afternoon? Or do I have this wrong?

Until panic sets in that your loved one is no where to be found you just hope they have gone off running an errand and will return soon and their cell phone has a dead battery.

If you called LE and told them your loved on has been missing for an hour or two they would likely tell you to call back in 24 hours if you haven't heard from them by then.

The problem I see is when the significant other does not make the report and it is left up to another family member or friends of the victim to contact LE when someone is missing because the spouse does not for what ever reason feel that it is necessary to file a report. That sends up a red flag in my book. I believe Karen was reported missing by someone other than David IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

JMO

 

[dovebar]

Like Karen and David, my parents also married and divorced twice. I hate to say this about my own father because I love him so much, but it's true: he wanted to "teach my mom a lesson" about how difficult life would be without him. He wanted her to suffer financially so that she would need him. They lived a great life - big house, a few cars, trips to Europe and Hawaii, etc. He used to tell her "you would be on the streets begging for money without me." I have so many memories of him telling her that.

When she divorced him the first time, he completely cut her off financially and waited for her to come back begging. It worked the first time, and she remarried him. They had a miserable marriage and divorced for the 2nd time when I was in college. The 2nd time they divorced, my mom was the strongest she had ever been, and she never looked back. She rebuilt her life slowly, and never let herself consider going back to him. I know in my heart that Karen was probably so brave and so strong, and wouldn't let herself be controlled anymore. She was excited about starting a new life and providing for her children. I saw it in my own mom.

In my heart, I feel that 'somebody' decided that Karen wouldn't be allowed to move forward without him. All or nothing. Divorce can really bring out the nastiest sides of people. I saw sides of my father that I thought were impossible. To this day, I wish I could erase some of the memories of the way my own father treated my mom, because I love him so much and he's such a kind man otherwise, but I hated the way he tried to control my mom.

Brave post. Thanks for sharing this.

Can people review the evidence about her daughter waking up in another room?

I think this indicates that she was moved while asleep for a reason related to this - because she would have heard noise in that room, or.....I'm trying to figure this out. But if she has no history of sleepwalking, it's too coincidental on a night that so many other things happened.

 

[panthera]

It should have, but a few people are posting that the sensors are unreliable, with the light remaining on when the tire is not low.

I still doubt the tire could have had this screw in it, have enough air pressure to not notice something wrong before she got out of the driveway, and be on the rim in the distance it was from the house. One thing a screw like this does when embedded in a tire is make noise when one is driving.

On the other hand, couldn't someone whose intent was to stage a breakdown and subsequent "abduction", have put the screw in it either at the cemetery or somewhere between there and where the vehicle was found in order for the tire to become flat by the time they got close enough to home to walk the rest of the way?

MOO

 

[panthera]

I'm sure I missed it, but if her car was found by 6am, why was she not reported missing until late that afternoon? Or do I have this wrong?

Unless there is something suspicious in or around the vehicle (other than a flat tire) generally it's believed an adult could have taken off on their own and therefore isn't "missing". Many LE agencies won't take a report in such a short time unless there is some other justifiable reason for doing so, such as an imminent medical condition.

MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Until panic sets in that your loved one is no where to be found you just hope they have gone off running an errand and will return soon and their cell phone has a dead battery.

If you called LE and told them your loved on has been missing for an hour or two they would likely tell you to call back in 24 hours if you haven't heard from them by then.

The problem I see is when the significant other does not make the report and it is left up to another family member or friends of the victim to contact LE when someone is missing because the spouse does not for what ever reason feel that it is necessary to file a report. That sends up a red flag in my book. I believe Karen was reported missing by someone other than David IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

JMO

I believe a car found abandoned at the side of a road with a bad tire, and a woman missing since the middle of the night warrants a call to police as soon as the car is discovered. There could be no safe reason for her to be missing, IMO. That is why I think any number of hours that may have passed before calling LE is too many.

 

[dovebar]

Are there any parents here who can give reasons why the child might move beds in the middle of the night?

I know you can move a small child without waking them.

Is it possible to move an older child?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I still doubt the tire could have had this screw in it, have enough air pressure to not notice something wrong before she got out of the driveway, and be on the rim in the distance it was from the house. One thing a screw like this does when embedded in a tire is make noise when one is driving.

On the other hand, couldn't someone whose intent was to stage a breakdown and subsequent "abduction", have put the screw in it either at the cemetery or somewhere between there and where the vehicle was found in order for the tire to become flat by the time they got close enough to home to walk the rest of the way?

MOO

I'm beginning to wonder if she drove the car home and was aware of the issue but it was late and dark so she just drove on it. Maybe, she had stopped, called him to come help and he said no. Daughter may have been asleep in the car and not privy to conversation via phone or text.

I think he was either aware of tire issue and used it to stage the scene. Or was not aware and was not able stage the scene as intended.

Because it would have been hard for someone to get a tire that flat with a screw in a couple of hours, I wonder if the tire was the catalyst for the evening. Maybe he was upset bc she drove home on it and ruined the rim and tire and it would be another expense for HIM. Or he refused to help and she was fuming by the time she got home. Since we don't know which daughter was interviewed or if he has controlled the daughter's interpretation of the evening, we still don't know what really went on after she picked up her daughter.

Just some thoughts...

 

[panthera]

I'm beginning to wonder if she drove the car home and was aware of the issue but it was late and dark so she just drove on it. Maybe, she had stopped, called him to come help and he said no. Daughter may have been asleep in the car and not privy to conversation via phone or text.

I think he was either aware of tire issue and used it to stage the scene. Or was not aware and was not able stage the scene as intended.

Because it would have been hard for someone to get a tire that flat with a screw in a couple of hours, I wonder if the tire was the catalyst for the evening. Maybe he was upset bc she drove home on it and ruined the rim and tire and it would be another expense for HIM. Or he refused to help and she was fuming by the time she got home. Since we don't know which daughter was interviewed or if he has controlled the daughter's interpretation of the evening, we still don't know what really went on after she picked up her daughter.

Just some thoughts...

Good thoughts indeed. I will agree it could be possible she picked up the screw in the tire somewhere along the way home and he could have used it to his advantage to stage the scene of her having a breakdown shortly after leaving home. However, if this had occurred and he is the one responsible for her death and disposal, he would have had to use another vehicle to transport her to where she was found, then taken her car out to the roadside and left it there.

MOO

 

[AmyMarie222]

Are there any parents here who can give reasons why the child might move beds in the middle of the night?

I know you can move a small child without waking them.

Is it possible to move an older child?

The only time we have ever moved our child is when she fell asleep in our bed. I honestly cannot think of another reason to move a child who is already tucked in with their PJ's on without getting into far-stretched reasons, such as one side of the house is suddenly a lot warmer or cooler than the other.

In terms of moving an older child - Our daughter is only 2 years old, but I always ask my husband to move her, since he is so much stronger. David would have been the one with the better control and muscle mass for moving a sleeping child.

I'm actually curious if David might have moved his daughter thinking that she would wake up with no recollection of being moved. Perhaps it came out of her mouth on its own in front of either her older brothers or LE.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Good thoughts indeed. I will agree it could be possible she picked up the screw in the tire somewhere along the way home and he could have used it to his advantage to stage the scene of her having a breakdown shortly after leaving home. However, if this had occurred and he is the one responsible for her death and disposal, he would have had to use another vehicle to transport her to where she was found, then taken her car out to the roadside and left it there.

MOO

I agree, it would have been much easier to say, she couldn't sleep and went for a morning run and never returned....

 

[FightTheOstrich]

The only time we have ever moved our child is when she fell asleep in our bed. I honestly cannot think of another reason to move a child who is already tucked in with their PJ's on without getting into far-stretched reasons, such as one side of the house is suddenly a lot warmer or cooler than the other.

In terms of moving an older child - Our daughter is only 2 years old, but I always ask my husband to move her, since he is so much stronger. David would have been the one with the better control and muscle mass for moving a sleeping child.

I'm actually curious if David might have moved his daughter thinking that she would wake up with no recollection of being moved. Perhaps it came out of her mouth on its own in front of either her older brothers or LE.

A child will move out of bed in an attempt to get in bed with a warm body for security. Or a child will move if they wet the bed. Not knowing about the extent of the emotional turmoil these girls were feeling and exactly how ill the daughter was, it's hard to say. I can't say why but I was under the impression Karen was sleeping with her and moved her to the other bed. If both beds were twins, I can see why Karen would have moved her....to wake up without a sore back and stiff neck.

 

[LindaG]

Because it would have been hard for someone to get a tire that flat with a screw in a couple of hours, I wonder if the tire was the catalyst for the evening. Maybe he was upset bc she drove home on it and ruined the rim and tire and it would be another expense for HIM. Or he refused to help and she was fuming by the time she got home. Since we don't know which daughter was interviewed or if he has controlled the daughter's interpretation of the evening, we still don't know what really went on after she picked up her daughter.

Just some thoughts...

I don't think the tire was a catalyst because based on what "Here4myfriend" said earler, I don't think the STBX cared about Karen's car or the cost of a tire; I doubt he planned to pay for the tire. He may have liked to see her struggle with a car problem and need his help. I rather doubt she would ask him for help and make herself look weak.

I think we have a problem when we try to make sense of something that probably could not happen. We are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Why did she do THIS? - She DIDN'T; Why would she do THAT? - She WOULDN'T.

No matter how we twist and turn logic, we can't change the fact that this was a murder staged to look like an accident, and it DOESN'T.

 

[LindaG]

One of Karen's friends told us that there IS a POI and that LE is treading carefully to build their case. If she is correct in her info, I think that rules out a random stranger. Hoping DNA on her body will tell the tale...and if it is her husband's DNA by chance, I hope we are not going to hear the old story of "consensual sex"...JMO

But I am not convinced either way at this point...the main thing that makes me lean toward the husband is I can't see any reason for her to go out again after bringing her child home, none that make any sense. Not buying the going for meds theory, not without telling the other adult in the home.

DNA could mean a lot of things. The killer could have scraped his knuckles and left behind droplets of blood or a tiny piece of flesh; it could be evidence of saliva or mucous. DNA could refer to any bodily fluids and also hair, if part of the hair root is still attached, as in a hair aggressively pulled from the head.

But you're right. I think we could rule out consensual sex.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I don't think the tire was a catalyst because based on what "Here4myfriend" said earler, I don't think the STBX cared about Karen's car or the cost of a tire; I doubt he planned to pay for the tire. He may have liked to see her struggle with a car problem and need his help. I rather doubt she would ask him for help and make herself look weak.

I think we have a problem when we try to make sense of something that probably could not happen. We are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Why would she do THIS? - She DIDN'T; Why would she do THAT? - She WOULDN'T.

No matter how we twist and turn logic, we can't change the fact that this was a murder staged to look like an accident, and it DOESN'T.

Just bc he wouldn't have to pay now doesnt mean he wouldn't have to pay for it later. The second u file in the state of TN u keep every single receipt to show ur contributions to the court. If he wasn't helping with the cost of tires so she could provide her children with a safe mode of transportation but he was out buying toys or whatever (just an example) the court would take that into account when dividing assets and determining support. I still think he came to the realization that night with wife at party and girls out, that his future was looking pretty bleak.

 

[LindaG]

Just bc he wouldn't have to pay now doesnt mean he wouldn't have to pay for it later. The second u file in the state of TN u keep every single receipt to show ur contributions to the court. If he wasn't helping with the cost of tires so she could provide her children with a safe mode of transportation but he was out buying toys or whatever (just an example) the court would take that into account when dividing assets and determining support. I still think he came to the realization that night with wife at party and girls out, that his future was looking pretty bleak.

Thanks for that info. In an earlier post "Here4myfriend" stated that DS had cut Karen off from all support and she was basically forced to re-marry him in order to be able to care for her little boys.

Karen's friends had also mentioned that in one of their interviews. They said that DS had friends who were lawyers and advised him on how to do this.

I'm just sayin: :cow:
moo

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Thanks for that info. In an earlier post "Here4myfriend" stated that DS had cut Karen off from all support and she was basically forced to re-marry him in order to be able to care for her little boys.

Karen's friends had also mentioned that in one of their interviews. They said that DS had friends who were lawyers and advised him on how to do this.

I'm just sayin: :cow:
moo

ITA, TN is still the good ole boys club although probably better than the last time she filed. Until the court ruled on the finances she would not be able to force him to give her a dime although the court will usually force the spouse to pay whatever child support for example it determines from the date of filing. I think he probably spent the night at home, weighing his options, perhaps looking through her belongings and stewing. This time Karen seemed more determined and she was standing her ground. The control he once had over her was gone.....she was out at a party moving on. Divorce can become a big game and typically he who spends the most wins. But, this time she was prepared to fight, she stayed in the house and was working whatever job she could. She was no longer intimidated by him and he probably couldn't stand it.
MOO

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Good thoughts indeed. I will agree it could be possible she picked up the screw in the tire somewhere along the way home and he could have used it to his advantage to stage the scene of her having a breakdown shortly after leaving home. However, if this had occurred and he is the one responsible for her death and disposal, he would have had to use another vehicle to transport her to where she was found, then taken her car out to the roadside and left it there.

MOO

I also wonder if when LE said that they didn't want to get tunnel vision, if they were implying that they know he held help with disposal. That they were letting someone know they didn't think he could have pulled off the coverup alone. Just thinking out loud...

 

[ThoughtFox]

I believe a car found abandoned at the side of a road with a bad tire, and a woman missing since the middle of the night warrants a call to police as soon as the car is discovered. There could be no safe reason for her to be missing, IMO. That is why I think any number of hours that may have passed before calling LE is too many.

It was the husband who waited so long, and did so only after calling around to all the friends and his grown son.

The neighbor who found the car called him earlier in the day, I believe.

There's nothing around where that car was parked except for one farm. I doubt many cars passed that way on a Sunday morning before dawn either. Probably the police never patrolled out there much either - more's the pity.

So as with the Gail Palmgren case, it was really up to the husband when to call LE and he took his own sweet time. I cannot explain it, but he knew where the car was early in the day.