17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[m00c0w]

Well, usually, when you are a witness to something, you have to fill out a report? He is the one who said this kid matched the description his wife gave? At least his wife would be on a report, and their address?

And that would be one instance. But if you call the police on someone in the neighborhood, they then go and talk to that person, and then go directly to your house after... What does that imply to the person you called the police on? They're probably not going to go down to the station to submit an FOIA request to obtain 911 call records just to figure it out. However, they would know quite easily if the cops met up with you directly after their call.

 

[Velouria]

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.

respectfully snipped for length

The fact is, that the above is only George Zimmerman's version of the events that transpired. No picking and choosing necessary.

That doesn't make it true and accurate.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Not for GM. LE ordered one, then canceled it. :waitasec:

Kinda weird if he was just one blow away from paralysis as his brother said.

I wasn't expecting that? But I do have to question... did they cancel the 2nd ambulance because Trayvon had already been declared deceased and they could use the same EMS for Zimmerman?

Probably not because they did say they were trying to give Trayvon CPR?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.

With all due respect, we don't know these as facts.

 

[m00c0w]

Not for GM. LE ordered one, then canceled it. :waitasec:

Kinda weird if he was just one blow away from paralysis as his brother said.

I'm pretty sure his brother said he didn't know if the next blow would have left him messed up for life. JMO

 

[suzihawk]

I don't think anyone is trashing or trying to ruin a child's reputation. I, for one, am insulted that this entire incident was painted as a little boy being shot in cold blood by a criminal - and painted by pictures that were not at all indicative of who either of them were the day this tragedy happened.

Why is it ok to trash George Zimmerman for things that happened when he was 17 or 18? Thread after thread he was trashed due to a report from an unreliable online publication.

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.

Should GZ have been watching Trayvon, yes, he should have IMO. Should Trayvon have run? Sure, if GZ scared him, but he should have run home, IMO.

The teens you describe are probably from an entirely different world than Trayvon Martin. Trayvon was from Miami Gardens, Florida. A rough area where teenagers, 17 and under, are killed at alarming rates. Survival becomes a way of life for them - cars and girls are secondary.



Maybe Trayvon ran because that is what he would do back home where his life might well have been in danger because teens are known to be the culprits of record numbers of murders and thefts. GZ wasn't in Miami Gardens where it wouldn't be unusual to see a 17 year old to run, so TM's behavior caused even more suspicion. GZ lived in a gated community of houses where everyone knew everyone - people watch out for each other.... they don't run from each other. Neither GZ or TM was right or wrong in their reactions - both, IMO, were running on instinct and fear, based on what they knew.

Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days and sent to his dad's house so he couldn't have fun with his friends. IMO, that meant "get in trouble" while his mother was at work. I am basing my opinion on the fact that his dad had no problem with Trayvon going to the movies with his cousin the same night he arrived, even though he wasn't sure and Trayvon never came home. His dad didn't try to find Trayvon aside from calling his phone a couple of times. He didn't call the cousin. Parents worry about their "children". Something isn't right - and it's ALL relevant. Kids that aren't supervised get into trouble all the time.

GZ didn't chase Trayvon down with his gun pulled. He didn't shoot him in cold blood. This statement, made over and over again is so without factual merit, it is insulting, especially when I'm told to accept it without question or I'm being judgmental and trashing a child. This isn't that cut and dried. IMO.

JMO

#1 Bold/Underline - How do we know for a fact TM jumped GZ? Link?

#2 Bold - Why should GZ have been watching TM? By all accounts (except GZ) he was doing nothing but walking home in the rain with his hood up.

 

[Velouria]

BBM


Um, not really. Miami Gardens is a fairly nice part of Miami. It is a northern edge city of the county and really is closer to Broward than downtown Miami.

Yes, crime is rampant here. But, Miami Gardens has upper middle class homes and is, like I said, a fairly nice area. Certainly not like Liberty City, Overtown, or even Little Havana. It all depends on where you hang out.

I was raised in Broward and both of my kids were. While it is a somewhat different way of life than rural areas - where Trayvon was doesn't look much different than Broward or even Miami Gardens. So, I don't know about Tray's "survival instincts" being all that different.

In fact, Miami Gardens is very close to Dolphin Stadium and that's a real nice part of Dade county.

Crime is everywhere. It just depends on where you go. Sure, there are streets, heck entire sub-divisions that I would NEVER consider even driving down in Broward - but that doesn't make my neighborhood crime-ridden.




JMHO

OMG, WiseOldOwl, you live in Miami Gardens?

Gee, you don't sound like a gangbanger!

 

[songline]

I don't think anyone is trashing or trying to ruin a child's reputation. I, for one, am insulted that this entire incident was painted as a little boy being shot in cold blood by a criminal - and painted by pictures that were not at all indicative of who either of them were the day this tragedy happened.

Why is it ok to trash George Zimmerman for things that happened when he was 17 or 18? Thread after thread he was trashed due to a report from an unreliable online publication.

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.

Should GZ have been watching Trayvon, yes, he should have IMO. Should Trayvon have run? Sure, if GZ scared him, but he should have run home, IMO.

The teens you describe are probably from an entirely different world than Trayvon Martin. Trayvon was from Miami Gardens, Florida. A rough area where teenagers, 17 and under, are killed at alarming rates. Survival becomes a way of life for them - cars and girls are secondary.



Maybe Trayvon ran because that is what he would do back home where his life might well have been in danger because teens are known to be the culprits of record numbers of murders and thefts. GZ wasn't in Miami Gardens where it wouldn't be unusual to see a 17 year old to run, so TM's behavior caused even more suspicion. GZ lived in a gated community of houses where everyone knew everyone - people watch out for each other.... they don't run from each other. Neither GZ or TM was right or wrong in their reactions - both, IMO, were running on instinct and fear, based on what they knew.

Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days and sent to his dad's house so he couldn't have fun with his friends. IMO, that meant "get in trouble" while his mother was at work. I am basing my opinion on the fact that his dad had no problem with Trayvon going to the movies with his cousin the same night he arrived, even though he wasn't sure and Trayvon never came home. His dad didn't try to find Trayvon aside from calling his phone a couple of times. He didn't call the cousin. Parents worry about their "children". Something isn't right - and it's ALL relevant. Kids that aren't supervised get into trouble all the time.

GZ didn't chase Trayvon down with his gun pulled. He didn't shoot him in cold blood. This statement, made over and over again is so without factual merit, it is insulting, especially when I'm told to accept it without question or I'm being judgmental and trashing a child. This isn't that cut and dried. IMO.

JMO

I still find it offensive that the news will show a photo of a 10 year old sweet face
child next to an overweight GZ and nether are correct yet both create PUBLIC OPINION.

I wish they would be forced to use the proper picture CURRENT photos of both.
I wish there was no witch hunt.
I wish there was no Civil rights movement on this case
I wish the LEGAL system did not betray TM and IMO they did.
What if he was the one who standing his ground and stated that he has done
nothing bad and had no intentions of it?
And because we do not know...The investigation was very important.

 

[Schu7]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

Potholes, kids playing, etc..... What an ugly read here.IMO

 

[OneLove]

I still find it offensive that the news will show a photo of a 10 year old sweet face
child next to an overweight GZ and nether are correct yet both create PUBLIC OPINION.

I wish they would be forced to use the proper picture CURRENT photos of both.
I wish there was no witch hunt.
I wish there was no Civil rights movement on this case
I wish the LEGAL system did not betray TM and IMO they did.
What if he was the one who standing his ground and stated that he has done
nothing bad and had no intentions of it?
And because we do not know...The investigation was very important.

True. And this is why people should not formulate their opinions based on emotion, conjecture, and bias. Remaining neutral until facts are revealed and allow the true puzzle to be filled in saves one a LOT of wear and tear on the adrenals, lol.

 

[gxm]

respectfully snipped for length

The fact is, that the above is only George Zimmerman's version of the events that transpired. No picking and choosing necessary.

That doesn't make it true and accurate.

This is true. But it is the only evidence via firsthand account that we have. Each of us can choose to believe if GZ's story is true or false, plausible or implausible. IMO, I do not know whether it is true or not, but it is plausible and does conform to the other hard evidence (transcripts, at least one witness account) available. Unfortunately, we don't have a whole lot of evidence, and much of it is vague and requires conjecture.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Concerned Papa]

I doubt I could put any stock in anything the people living in that development have to say about that night, especially if they own their homes and don't rent.

That HOA and every property owner in there are subject to huge judgements against their property from civil lawsuits. This killing happened on an area of the development's common grounds where every single deeded owner has an equal share of the liability.

With property values already scraping rock bottom, they probably don't have much equity left for attachment as it is. Their best bet to avoid losing everything they own is to help get Captain George clear of all this mess in a hurry and promote him to General.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Ok - I went to that stats link.

I put in Liberty City's zip code to compare stats between Liberty City and Miami Gardens.

The blue line on the graph is Miami Gardens and the red line is Liberty City.
(The Green is the State)

LOOK at the difference in all areas of crime between Miami Gardens and Liberty City.

Its HUGE - especially in the murder and robbery categories.


Miami Gardens is not that bad as far as crime goes.

http://www.clrsearch.com/Miami_Gardens_Demographics/FL/Crime-Rate?compare=33142


JMHO

 

[songline]

Dark red - songline

#1 Bold/Underline - How do we know for a fact TM jumped GZ? Link?

This is why an investigation was important. This is what GZ told but TM was
not available to tell his side he was dead.

#2 Bold - Why should GZ have been watching TM? By all accounts (except GZ) he was doing nothing but walking home in the rain with his hood up.
Because he was a watchman and he did size him up somehow.
GZ has a right to do that. People do live-in gated communities because of a reason.

I think this case has so many holes and so many sloppy records.
I will be shocked if there is a fair verdict.
No matter what happens one side will be screaming not fair.
BECAUSE of horrible police work, and their higher ups.
Sorry but they make me uke:

 

[LambChop]

I don't think anyone is trashing or trying to ruin a child's reputation. I, for one, am insulted that this entire incident was painted as a little boy being shot in cold blood by a criminal - and painted by pictures that were not at all indicative of who either of them were the day this tragedy happened.

Why is it ok to trash George Zimmerman for things that happened when he was 17 or 18? Thread after thread he was trashed due to a report from an unreliable online publication.

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.Should GZ have been watching Trayvon, yes, he should have IMO. Should Trayvon have run? Sure, if GZ scared him, but he should have run home, IMO.

The teens you describe are probably from an entirely different world than Trayvon Martin. Trayvon was from Miami Gardens, Florida. A rough area where teenagers, 17 and under, are killed at alarming rates. Survival becomes a way of life for them - cars and girls are secondary.



Maybe Trayvon ran because that is what he would do back home where his life might well have been in danger because teens are known to be the culprits of record numbers of murders and thefts. GZ wasn't in Miami Gardens where it wouldn't be unusual to see a 17 year old to run, so TM's behavior caused even more suspicion. GZ lived in a gated community of houses where everyone knew everyone - people watch out for each other.... they don't run from each other. Neither GZ or TM was right or wrong in their reactions - both, IMO, were running on instinct and fear, based on what they knew.

Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days and sent to his dad's house so he couldn't have fun with his friends. IMO, that meant "get in trouble" while his mother was at work. I am basing my opinion on the fact that his dad had no problem with Trayvon going to the movies with his cousin the same night he arrived, even though he wasn't sure and Trayvon never came home. His dad didn't try to find Trayvon aside from calling his phone a couple of times. He didn't call the cousin. Parents worry about their "children". Something isn't right - and it's ALL relevant. Kids that aren't supervised get into trouble all the time.

GZ didn't chase Trayvon down with his gun pulled. He didn't shoot him in cold blood. This statement, made over and over again is so without factual merit, it is insulting, especially when I'm told to accept it without question or I'm being judgmental and trashing a child. This isn't that cut and dried. IMO.

JMO

BBM: Are you saying this is a fact? If so, where did you get this information????

The information on GZ is public knowledge and since he is the one being investigated for his actions anything he has done in his past regarding violence should be a consideration because they are documented. "IMO's" about where TM was from and how one might concluded how another person should have reacted are not facts and only opinions.

It's really not a matter of trashing GZ as it is finding out why he felt it was necessary to do what he did. It is not clear at all but with every passing day it does get clearer and clearer. Walking or running in the rain is normal behavior. Chasing/following/pursuing someone is aggressive behavior viewed by all....no matter who you are. If someone were following me and I attempted to hide and they found me I'd be fearful for my life.

GZ had two options....stay with his vehicle.....or follow not knowing who he was after. One is safe, the other is dangerous. No one can argue this point based on GZ's call to LE. He chose the dangerous road with deadly results. His motivation right before the shooting are as important as his history from the past. It paints a picture of a crime just waiting to happen. jmo

 

[belle3]

Crazy, right??

I want to talk more about why Zimmerman didn't want to give out his addresss. He did the same thing when he was making a call to LE while he was in his home? Why does he not want LE to know his address?

What is in his home, or what is he hiding in his home, to not want LE knocking at his door? Something strange is going on?

MOO

You know ive been wondering about this for days now. I wonder what other communities gz has lived in and if their crime rates went up suddenly in the time he lived there. Just wondering???

 

[LolaMoon08]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

Potholes, kids playing, etc..... What an ugly read here.IMO

I don't have a problem with pot holes being reported, especially when I've seen ones that could swallow your car whole. Calling 911 for potholes? No! But making sure the city knows, I think it would be the DOT, is a good thing to do if you do see one that could possibly cause problems.

We had an incident where my niece was driving home by herself on a residential street (not many houses at all) and it was dark and she hit a pothole and it popped the tire and she was all alone out there. She called her parents who told her to stay in the car, lock the doors, roll up the window. If anyone approached you, just tell them through the closed window that you have someone on the way.

So yes, I do think if people see a pothole that could put someone in danger, it should be reported... not to 911 though.

 

[stmarysmead]

I've seen all the proof I need to see to convince me he had no injuries. We've seen quite a bit of the video that was released when he was taken into the police station, many different angles of him in those as well. There is no blood anywhere on him, there is no sign based on his clothing that he had been in a fight for his life.

I never said anything about anyone taking the opportunity to speak on behalf of Zimmerman but now that you mention it, I really wish the ones that he have speaking out on his behalf did not presume that the general public was stupid and would believe their stories without question. Perhaps also, he might want to pick different representatives to do his PR for him instead of allowing friend, Taaffe < mod snip >; the uncle, no best friend, no make that someone he used to work with, Joe Oliver who tried to say he was the best of friends with Zimmerman; and his brother, Junior, who as it turns out (according to Zimmerman's lawyer) hasn't spoken to him in more than a year. Wow, just thinking about that, with friends/family like these, he really doesn't need any other enemies.



~jmo~

To my point, it takes a great deal of courage to speak on behalf of GZ. One needs to be able to endure the anger and insults, the assumption that you LIE, the dissection of one's own life and character....while no such character assessment is tolerated of anyone who says what most people want to hear. That is how we shut people up. That is how we only allow one version of events to be heard. That is mob intimidation.

Has anyone done a similar investigation of the girlfriend? How about the mother of the young witness who has now flipped his story? Should the veracity of ONLY people who speak well of GZ be analyzed? This is a slippery slope. Shall we dig up everything on everybody...really? or just on people who won't fall in line.

really?

This is what keeps the fullness of a story from coming out. There is no reason I can think of for these people to subject themselves to venom and hate unless they really believe that GZ is being wronged.

What advantage is there for them? I suggest GZ is lucky to have people of courage in his life. Until you have seen it close up, you can't imagine how people turn to sheep. It is so easy to say what is ...demanded and will bring you praise.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'm pretty sure his brother said he didn't know if the next blow would have left him messed up for life. JMO

Yep that's right. Said he would have to feed him in diapers or something like that. Was that before or after he was explaining how Chapstick and a toothpick were also deadly weapons? :waitasec:

 

[gxm]

I'm pretty sure his brother said he didn't know if the next blow would have left him messed up for life. JMO

Yes. And let me say, again, that speaking from personal experience I can attest to the fact that having one's head repeatedly slammed into a hard surface is terrifying and as you listen to the sound as your head makes impact you are wondering if the next slam will be the last. This part of GZ's account rings completely true to me.

JMO, OMO, and :moo: