17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[songline]

LOL...so do you think GZ had a roll of paper towels stuck in his waistband, too. GZ had enough blood on his face for LE to think he had a bloody nose and the way witnesses described him, leaning down towards the body, walking, pacing around before LE got there, he surely would have had blood on his shirt if it was his and not just wiped on his face from TM's blood. jmo

NO I think he had a major hit to his nose that hurt like a dickens, but I don’t know.
As for the roll of paper towels in his waist band. LOL
While I do not know I have to take a leap of faith and say.
NOP he did not cary paper. :floorlaugh:
BUT... didnt an ambulance show up? they could have had plenty of paper.
:floorlaugh:

 

[LambChop]

Right, but the rest of the world did not. If he had stated his address on phone, it would have been in the recording for anyone to access, just like all the addresses and phone numbers of Casey Anthony's friends and acquaintances.

He was calling from his cell phone. LE would have gotten his address and still placed it on the report which is public information. He'd called before he would know that. Sounds to me like GZ was adding more and more drama to the mix. Don't know who this kid is.....like he's public enemy no. 1. jmo

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I understand that. But when talking about the 3rd highest crime rate in the U.S. would Sanford's crime rate have been included in that?

dunno - I would guess it would depend on the stats that were used. Did they use Orlando (city-proper) stats or just the "greater Orlando area" stats?

Again, just like here - Ft. Lauderdale would have its own stats and Plantation, Sunrise, Tamarac, etc etc would have theirs - but if they want to say "the Greater Ft. Lauderdale area" then I would guess they would include all of those.

Miami does the same thing - many many many different cities in Miami.

Again, clear as mud?

lol - it would depend on the stats they used.

 

[songline]

Ah--good point. But I assume they had to have arrested him in order to bring him to the police station in handcuffs, even if they subsequently let him go without charges, no?

They had to disarm him, and apprehend him and take him in.
You cannot charge someone without knowing what to charge for.

 

[OneLove]

Crazy, right??

I want to talk more about why Zimmerman didn't want to give out his addresss. He did the same thing when he was making a call to LE while he was in his home? Why does he not want LE to know his address?

What is in his home, or what is he hiding in his home, to not want LE knocking at his door? Something strange is going on?

MOO

I have to say that I do understand some justifiable reasons for this. Not saying this was Zimmerman's reason, as I don't know, maybe he did have something to hide. But when reporting something, as I did, my eyewitness of a beating and strangulation (and I was just driving down the road minding my own business, saw it from the car), you have to consider your own safety. If you are reporting someone you believe to be criminal and particularly meth addicted or dealers, IF it became known you reported them, they might not hesitate to come after you or yours.

There was a case I read here at Websleuths several years ago, a family in rural Texas. They had a known meth house down their road, buyers AND dealers driving by their isolated house all the time. They reported it, as I recall, maybe several times. Police investigated. The entire family was found brutally murdered, kids and all.

It wouldn't take much to figure out who did the reporting in that case, but where you have an untrustworthy crooked police department, you also never know who is on the inside. It's scary.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm pretty sure LE would have his address. He just wanted to make the reports anonymously to avoid any tensions in the neighborhood, and he didn't give his address during this instance because he said he didn't know where Martin was (and didn't want him to know where he lived).

Zimmerman, in another call to report a "black teen suspect", he was in the comfort of his own home and did not want to give LE his address. This call is so eerie because it matched so much of what he said when he was reporting Trayvon acting suspicious, it included the clubhouse, the back entrance, he does't know what he's up to, he's looking at cars (basically casing them out).

 

[octobermoon]

I have never gotten a receipt is I was buying snacks with cash? Usually when paying with cash at a convienience store, you have to ask for a receipt. I would not ask for a reciept if I had only bought candy and ice tea? It's a waste of paper. However, if LE wanted to get a receipt of Trayvon's purchase, I am sure the 7-11 would be more than willing to go through their records to get it?

IMO, If Trayvon was trying to keep the gun from shooting him, even while on top, he could be screaming.

I just went to 7-11 this morn. No receipt.

Just saying. (not at you Lolamoon)

 

[w1df10wr]

I would think LE would be going door to door asking if they saw anything and also going door to door with a picture or pictures of TM in the morgue asking who's son was this.

and Tracy Martin got home between 10:15 to 10:45. PM, and the shooting happened around 7ish.

I do not believe that the Police just up and left so very quickly. I would think they would be there for hours and not just minutes. So IMO, they were still there when Tracy Martin and his Fiancee got home. i find it very odd that plenty of police cars and possibly sirens going off at the complex did not pip his curiosity about what was going on.

Something about the whole story the family is telling is not right.

1st officer on scene at 7:17pm.

10 - 15 minute drive to the police station from that complex.

GZ & and some LE arrived at the police station around 7:52pm.

We do know that a few of the officers did leave within 20 minutes of arriving to the complex. What we don't know is how many officers etc were actually at the scene. It's very possible that witness statements taken, photos of the scene, etc were all done by 10pm, imo.

Have any of the witnesses mentioned how long LE was there?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I believe its called "detaining" - They detained him.

I could be wrong but that's how I've always thought it worked. LE can "detain" you without an arrest (which mean they also can cuff you). They only have so long that they can hold (detain) you without either arresting or letting you go.


JMHO

 

[CarolinaMoon]

In a way, it was a good thing GZ was only detained, and not arrested that night. An arrest would have started the timer ticking for a speedy trial. That's one thing I remember from that, ahem, other Florida case.

Now, the Special Prosecutor can take her time, relatively, to review all the LE information and interview the witnesses. There is time for some forensic testing as well.

If GZ is arrested, it will be with a lot more ammunition than was available the night he shot Trayvon.

 

[vlpate]

I was at work last night and we have two 16 fixing to turn 17 year old boys working there. One is about the same height and build of Trayvon. He has worked there for awhile, the other one only started this weekend. Anyway, when we slowed down they introduced themselves to each other. I stood there listening to them talk about their sports teams and who played who, girls, cars...you know 16 year old things. And it broke my heart, because I thought about those conversations Tray will never have.

A child is dead. And reading how some are trying to turn him into a thief and worse is sickening. Does it bother anyone that they may be trashing a good kids reputation? Or is this world so ******up that no one cares anymore? I'm ashamed for the state of humanity today. People need to look in the mirror before pointing fingers.

I don't think anyone is trashing or trying to ruin a child's reputation. I, for one, am insulted that this entire incident was painted as a little boy being shot in cold blood by a criminal - and painted by pictures that were not at all indicative of who either of them were the day this tragedy happened.

Why is it ok to trash George Zimmerman for things that happened when he was 17 or 18? Thread after thread he was trashed due to a report from an unreliable online publication.

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.

Should GZ have been watching Trayvon, yes, he should have IMO. Should Trayvon have run? Sure, if GZ scared him, but he should have run home, IMO.

The teens you describe are probably from an entirely different world than Trayvon Martin. Trayvon was from Miami Gardens, Florida. A rough area where teenagers, 17 and under, are killed at alarming rates. Survival becomes a way of life for them - cars and girls are secondary.

Participatory Action Research to Reduce Youth Violence
"A university-community alliance organized local partners to address alarming levels of youth gang activity, murder, violence and crime in low-income, African-American neighborhoods in South Florida. Some communities in Miami have prospered in recent decades, while in contrast, the small cities of Opa Locka & Miami Gardens suffer from some of the highest crime rates in the entire Nation (FBI, 2006; USDOJ, 2004; FDLE, 2008). "

Maybe Trayvon ran because that is what he would do back home where his life might well have been in danger because teens are known to be the culprits of record numbers of murders and thefts. GZ wasn't in Miami Gardens where it wouldn't be unusual to see a 17 year old to run, so TM's behavior caused even more suspicion. GZ lived in a gated community of houses where everyone knew everyone - people watch out for each other.... they don't run from each other. Neither GZ or TM was right or wrong in their reactions - both, IMO, were running on instinct and fear, based on what they knew.

Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days and sent to his dad's house so he couldn't have fun with his friends. IMO, that meant "get in trouble" while his mother was at work. I am basing my opinion on the fact that his dad had no problem with Trayvon going to the movies with his cousin the same night he arrived, even though he wasn't sure and Trayvon never came home. His dad didn't try to find Trayvon aside from calling his phone a couple of times. He didn't call the cousin. Parents worry about their "children". Something isn't right - and it's ALL relevant. Kids that aren't supervised get into trouble all the time.

GZ didn't chase Trayvon down with his gun pulled. He didn't shoot him in cold blood. This statement, made over and over again is so without factual merit, it is insulting, especially when I'm told to accept it without question or I'm being judgmental and trashing a child. This isn't that cut and dried. IMO.

JMO

 

[songline]

right, but the rest of the world did not. If he had stated his address on phone, it would have been in the recording for anyone to access, just like all the addresses and phone numbers of casey anthony's friends and acquaintances.

exactly

 

[LolaMoon08]

Why would he have thought he'd have to fill out a written report?

Well, usually, when you are a witness to something, you have to fill out a report? He is the one who said this kid matched the description his wife gave? At least his wife would be on a report, and their address?

 

[LambChop]

NO I think he had a major hit to his nose that hurt like a dickens, but I don’t know.
As for the roll of paper towels in his waist band. LOL
While I do not know I have to take a leap of faith and say.
NOP he did not cary paper. :floorlaugh:
BUT... didnt an ambulance show up? they could have had plenty of paper.
:floorlaugh:

Yes, the ambulance did show up but he was treated in the police car. The EMT appears to have cleaned him up pretty good, no signs of blood anywhere which tells me the EMT was looking for where all the blood came from and did not find a wound. There is absolute nothing on his head in the way of a covering to protect an open wound. No EMT would have allowed him to walk away like that without some type of protection to keep a wound clean.

Now it's an contusion but it was way too early to see a black and blue mark on the video from a bruise. It would have started out pinkish or light red in color followed by darker colors in the following days. This was within an hour. No way did a bruise get that black, that fast. jmo

 

[Concerned Papa]

That helps? I'm in Lee County and we don't call anything in Charlotte, Hendry, Collier a suburb of anything in Lee County? We're not Orlando though? I guess when you get around bigger cities, they do that, right?

BBM

Especially when everything within 50 miles of Downtown Orlando is a concrete jungle with Mickey Mouse billboards reaching to the sky. You've pretty much gotta go all the way to the Atlantic Ocean to be out of the Mouse's house.

 

[songline]

In a way, it was a good thing GZ was only detained, and not arrested that night. An arrest would have started the timer ticking for a speedy trial. That's one thing I remember from that, ahem, other Florida case.

Now, the Special Prosecutor can take her time, relatively, to review all the LE information and interview the witnesses. There is time for some forensic testing as well.

If GZ is arrested, it will be with a lot more ammunition than was available the night he shot Trayvon.

You cant charge someone unless you know what you are charging them for.
BUT
If one is standing and one is dead.
AN INVESTIGATION is urgent or we will have the wild wild west in every state.
I think that TMs parent got a closed case and that infuriated them, had they been told
it is under investigating - they would not feel it was swept under a rug.

IMHO LE, DA State...ALL *advertiser censored**** up.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm sure everyone in that neighborhood knew who and where George Zimmerman lived. He, imo, made his presence more than known.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

didnt an ambulance show up? they could have had plenty of paper.
:floorlaugh:

Not for GM. LE ordered one, then canceled it. :waitasec:

Kinda weird if he was just one blow away from paralysis as his brother said.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I don't think anyone is trashing or trying to ruin a child's reputation. I, for one, am insulted that this entire incident was painted as a little boy being shot in cold blood by a criminal - and painted by pictures that were not at all indicative of who either of them were the day this tragedy happened.

Why is it ok to trash George Zimmerman for things that happened when he was 17 or 18? Thread after thread he was trashed due to a report from an unreliable online publication.

The facts, as we know them - and it's not right to pick and choose LE statements to fit a theory - Trayvon Martin jumped George Zimmerman, saw his gun, and told him he was going to die. Zimmerman managed to get his gun and he shot Trayvon.

Should GZ have been watching Trayvon, yes, he should have IMO. Should Trayvon have run? Sure, if GZ scared him, but he should have run home, IMO.

The teens you describe are probably from an entirely different world than Trayvon Martin. Trayvon was from Miami Gardens, Florida. A rough area where teenagers, 17 and under, are killed at alarming rates. Survival becomes a way of life for them - cars and girls are secondary.



Maybe Trayvon ran because that is what he would do back home where his life might well have been in danger because teens are known to be the culprits of record numbers of murders and thefts. GZ wasn't in Miami Gardens where it wouldn't be unusual to see a 17 year old to run, so TM's behavior caused even more suspicion. GZ lived in a gated community of houses where everyone knew everyone - people watch out for each other.... they don't run from each other. Neither GZ or TM was right or wrong in their reactions - both, IMO, were running on instinct and fear, based on what they knew.

Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days and sent to his dad's house so he couldn't have fun with his friends. IMO, that meant "get in trouble" while his mother was at work. I am basing my opinion on the fact that his dad had no problem with Trayvon going to the movies with his cousin the same night he arrived, even though he wasn't sure and Trayvon never came home. His dad didn't try to find Trayvon aside from calling his phone a couple of times. He didn't call the cousin. Parents worry about their "children". Something isn't right - and it's ALL relevant. Kids that aren't supervised get into trouble all the time.

GZ didn't chase Trayvon down with his gun pulled. He didn't shoot him in cold blood. This statement, made over and over again is so without factual merit, it is insulting, especially when I'm told to accept it without question or I'm being judgmental and trashing a child. This isn't that cut and dried. IMO.

JMO

BBM


Um, not really. Miami Gardens is a fairly nice part of Miami. It is a northern edge city of the county and really is closer to Broward than downtown Miami.

Yes, crime is rampant here. But, Miami Gardens has upper middle class homes and is, like I said, a fairly nice area. Certainly not like Liberty City, Overtown, or even Little Havana. It all depends on where you hang out.

I was raised in Broward and both of my kids were. While it is a somewhat different way of life than rural areas - where Trayvon was doesn't look much different than Broward or even Miami Gardens. So, I don't know about Tray's "survival instincts" being all that different.

In fact, Miami Gardens is very close to Dolphin Stadium and that's a real nice part of Dade county.

Crime is everywhere. It just depends on where you go. Sure, there are streets, heck entire sub-divisions that I would NEVER consider even driving down in Broward - but that doesn't make my neighborhood crime-ridden.




JMHO

 

[LolaMoon08]

BBM

Especially when everything within 50 miles of Downtown Orlando is a concrete jungle with Mickey Mouse billboards reaching to the sky. You've pretty much gotta go all the way to the Atlantic Ocean to be out of the Mouse's house.

I know? What's up with that? Why does it have to be all about Mickey? I wish I was Pluto's agent, I would demand he get some billboards!