17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

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And instead of George profiling Trayvon as a criminal, he could have rolled down his window and smiled nicely at Trayvon and said "hey young man, my name is George Zimmerman, I am the community neighborhood watch captain, it's raining outside would you like a ride to your door?"


aww this post made me cry, it's such a shame that we dont live in that world (not being sarcastic though I think it reads that way...if only your scenario happened all the time...)
 
GZ called the police because TM was young, black, male and on foot. In GZ's mind, TM matched the stereotype of a burglar. GZ didn't see TM commit a criminal act, nor did he see TM do anything that would indicate he was a burglar. TM wasn't trying doors to see if they were unlocked, or peering into windows or carrying a crowbar to pry them open. He was just walking down the street and talking on his phone.

GZ obviously thought TM was acting suspiciously. He did the right thing by calling LE. There were 8 recent break ins in the neighborhood so why wouldn't he be suspicious?
 
I am just going to post these links as I am so far behind in these posts and I apologize if they havee been posted before.

"Oliver, a former local news anchor and reporter, has known Zimmerman for almost a decade and says he's not a racist. Zimmerman's been in hiding since the shooting and Oliver was only able to speak with him briefly on the phone over the weekend."

"Oliver says Zimmerman has been told by Sanford Police not to talk publicly about what happened"

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/local/032612-Zimmerman%27s-friend-defends-his-actions_18831412

After the following interview, Joe Oliver has nearly disappeared from the media. Video at the link:
Joe Oliver: My role ‘doesn’t make sense’

MSNBC's Lawrence O’Donnell, Charles Blow, a New York Times columnist, and Jonathan Capehart, a Washington Post columnist, each took turns quizzing Oliver about his six-year friendship with his co-worker, Zimmerman.

Oliver "wanted to clarify" the characterization of him as a "close friend," as many news outlets have been suggesting. He said considered himself more of an "older uncle" figure.

Oliver also told the Last Word panel he knows in "his heart" that Zimmerman was in a life or death situation before he pulled the trigger. He said it comes down to a "gut feeling." Though, he admitted Zimmerman never shared details about past brushes with violence and the law.

No one else on set was buying it. "You don’t really know George Zimmerman if you don’t know those things about George Zimmerman," Blow charged, throwing cold water on the depth of their interactions.
http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/28/10907833-joe-oliver-my-role-doesnt-make-sense
 
Yet, although there is evidence that TM was not a perfect person, that he made the same mistakes that many young kids make, there is zero evidence that he was in physical confrontations habitually, that he fought or attacked people who annoyed him. There is no evidence that can be found that shows that he was a young man with a propensity for violent encounters.

There seems to be some evidence that George Zimmerman had some temper issues, notably that he was required to take anger management classes and had had problems due to physical altercations in the past.

History is often a reasonable predictor of future behavior when it is all you have to go on and unfortunately in this case it is. Add to that the fact that Trayvon had no reason to confront anyone, unless you are willing to believe that in spite of having no history of violent encounters all of a sudden he decides to physically fight with someone that he doesn't know and holds no animosity toward, simply because the man was following him and he thought it creepy or annoying.

IMO my assumptions are more valid and logic based than to simply assume that because George Zimmerman said self defense Trayvon MUST have hit him or jumped him or somehow started the physical fight, since as previously noted, George Zimmerman has every reason to want everyone to believe that Trayvon started things....IMO JMHO and stuff.

You're not going to have evidence of a teenager who feels threatened and is pissed off he's being following from past history. Just because he had no history of fights doesn't mean he wouldn't react a certain way. I can show you numerous examples of people, especially teenagers, who have no history of violence lashing out in certain ways depending on the circumstances.
 
GZ knew not to follow. LE did not tell him to follow, they said he didn't have to which is not the same as "giving him permission". By saying "okay" he acknowledged he knew exactly what the dispatcher was telling him to do. He had 14 weeks of LE training in police procedures. Once he called LE it was their responsibility to handle to call, no authority was ever handed over to GZ. Tell me where in those calls did LE ask GZ to follow the suspect so they would be able to find him. LE said meet the patrol car by the mailboxes. That was clear. LE dispatch would have never hung up with GZ if they thought he did not understand what he was being told and not to follow.

Since this community is a member of NWP they were all instructed on what to do. Do not follow, no weapons...it's in the manual, they all agreed to abide by the rules. Why would LE suspect GZ knowing the rules would have needed special instructions NOT TO FOLLOW when he acknowledged he understood. jmo

I thought it was 14 hours, LC. However, I totally agree with the rest of your post. < mod snip >

MOO :banghead:
 
Some kids in today's world act a certain way to avoid being bullied. That doesn't mean that is who they are to the core.

not to mention that Mr Zimmerman had no knowlege of anything involving the young man who was killed. I think Mr Zimmerman's frustrations at crime in his neighborhood, not being listened to the way he wanted to be by the multiple 911 history of calls, being ignored or having Mr Martin not respect his authori-tiii and frustrations over the entire situation came to bear and when Mr Martin refused to obey this unknown frightening large stranger stalking him, Mr Zimmerman reached and grabbed at Mr Martin, when Mr Martin faught back, Mr Zimmerman's frustrations caused him to stop thinking rationally and instead kill this young man.
 
Important friends in high places?

Any evidence of him peddling his yet-to-be-determined influence? Any evidence out there that his friends in high places would be willing to cover up a supposed murder? Such ridiculous accusations imo.
 
It's relevant to me because if there was a struggle...you cannot just look at GZ and dissect his past and attitudes without looking at the OTHER PERSON who was in that struggle. TM had increasingly been getting into trouble. His Twitter account tells us a lot about him IN HIS OWN WORDS. If it is fair to judge GZ every word and action...and not do the same to TM?

Can the person who wrote those tweets, many angry and profane...been upset enough to decide to beat up GZ? It is possible, despite whatever those who would make TM "perfect" choose to ignore. If he is dead because of a fight that HE initiated, then that is a HUGE part of this story.

WE DON"T KNOW YET, do we? So we need as much info on both these people. TM is an excellent source of info on HIMSELF. If there is ANY possibility that TM was the aggressor in the FIGHT..and there is...everything needs to be known.

IMO It is only fair to know all about both especially because at this time Both are considered VICTIMS IMO.JMO Until all investigations are complete.IMO That is not demonizing either person IMO that is sleuthing.
 
And instead of George profiling Trayvon as a criminal, he could have rolled down his window and smiled nicely at Trayvon and said "hey young man, my name is George Zimmerman, I am the community neighborhood watch captain, it's raining outside would you like a ride to your door?"

And instead of pummeling GZ, TM could have gone home. No way on Earth GZ could have caught TM if TM wanted to get away.
 
TM's twitter account shows an average teenager.His twitter account reflects his age.His twitter account looks like ALL our teens accounts unless they're the exception.Trayvon is my boy.He's our child walking down the street
That's all I think about.What if it would have been my kid? I think that's why we are so angry,so outraged because we think that could have been my kid.

Not hardly. My little brothers are around his age and they would NEVER post the drug references, pics of tattoos (they don't have any so it's beside the point), life nonsense. TM was not like all teens.
 
Yet, although there is evidence that TM was not a perfect person, that he made the same mistakes that many young kids make, there is zero evidence that he was in physical confrontations habitually, that he fought or attacked people who annoyed him. There is no evidence that can be found that shows that he was a young man with a propensity for violent encounters.

There seems to be some evidence that George Zimmerman had some temper issues, notably that he was required to take anger management classes and had had problems due to physical altercations in the past.

History is often a reasonable predictor of future behavior when it is all you have to go on and unfortunately in this case it is. Add to that the fact that Trayvon had no reason to confront anyone, unless you are willing to believe that in spite of having no history of violent encounters all of a sudden he decides to physically fight with someone that he doesn't know and holds no animosity toward, simply because the man was following him and he thought it creepy or annoying.

IMO my assumptions are more valid and logic based than to simply assume that because George Zimmerman said self defense Trayvon MUST have hit him or jumped him or somehow started the physical fight, since as previously noted, George Zimmerman has every reason to want everyone to believe that Trayvon started things....IMO JMHO and stuff.

Valid and logic, key words.

Wonder why we need to ignore that GZ himself said that Trayvon was in fact running away, GZ himself said that Trayvon was down at the other entrance when GZ got out of his car, with that loaded gun. Trayvon's gf said that Trayvon thought he lost GZ, perfectly reasonable that he may have stopped running if he thought he was safe, then he spots GZ behind him again. But let's deflect away from that too by demonizing the GF.

GZ himself said, ok, when the dispatcher said we don't need you to do that. It's scary that a man has a gun and would claim he didn't understand what that meant. IMHO

GZ gave the location of his truck, then changed his mind and asked them to call him. Had he been going back to his truck he would have made it back before he even hung up with 911. IMHO

His good friend Frank Taafe, the one that GZ sent a thank you too, the one that GZ must approve of since he sent that thank you, seems to have changed his story from the burglaries have been committed by many or mostly blacks, to now they were "all" committed by blacks. There was a post today that this claim is being disputed.

His good friend Frank Taafe, the one he sent that thank you to, has pretty much said that GZ had had it, he was fed up. GZ's own words, Trayvon was one of the *advertiser censored****** that always gets away, he was an effin ****.

Blame it all on the media is a straw man argument. IMHO

And trayvon's twitter account doesn't change GZ's words or actions. It's grasping at anything to deflect away from GZ. Trayvon's suspensions were non violent infractions, but let's make a case that it means he could be violent yet we'll ignore and dismiss GZ's real past aggressive issues as irrelevant. IMHO

All JMHO
 
Or trying to get LE out there more expedient. His credibility might not be that great , too much like the boy that cried wolf.

I have been meaning to ask this question referring to the snip below. What is the significance of the button. Does that make somebody more suspicious? Puzzled.

GZ: He's got a button on his shirt -- late teens
I'm not going to try to find the article but in one of the earlier ones, Trayvon's parents said TM often wore a button in honor of his deceased grandmother.

I also wondered if the "Nana" tattoo was to honor her.

From memory, no link for button reference or tattoo, so JMO.
 
That they didn't need for him to. That implies that they weren't forbidding him from following TM, no matter how much some people want it to mean that. Why not just say "do not follow him"?

Arguing this is like dealing with my kids.

Son says he's going to check and make sure his sister has done her homework.

Me: I don't need you to do that.

Ruckus heard from daughter's bedroom.

Me (raising voice): I thought I told you not to do that?

Son: No dad, you said you didn't NEED me to do that
 
You're not going to have evidence of a teenager who feels threatened and is pissed off he's being following from past history. Just because he had no history of fights doesn't mean he wouldn't react a certain way. I can show you numerous examples of people, especially teenagers, who have no history of violence lashing out in certain ways depending on the circumstances.

Yet there is also NO evidence that Trayvon was pissed off, Mad, ready to fight. There is NO evidence that he wanted to turn and confront Zimmerman since Zimmerman himself in his own words charactarized him as running away...that does not fit with a hair trigger, going to lash out at this person guy. Numerous examples do NOT show that in this instance Trayvon Martin did anything other than try to get away from George Zimmerman, and the only evidence we have of anything otherwise is the word of the man who will surely go to jail if he admits that he stopped Trayvon and attempted to hold him there until LE arrived. IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
Did anyone keep Beth Karras's quote re the voice test not being allowed in trial?
 
I think this very well could be what happened, but instead of running away what if Trayvon turned to see if George needed help and that is when George pulled the trigger thus the chest wound the funeral director spoke of.

IMO :floorlaugh:
 
Arguing this is like dealing with my kids.

Son says he's going to check and make sure his sister has done her homework.

Me: I don't need you to do that.

Ruckus heard from daughter's bedroom.

Me (raising voice): I thought I told you not to do that?

Son: No dad, you said you didn't NEED me to do that

I feel like it's dealing with people who don't think that words mean what they really mean. Semantics are important. Looks like your son was correct from what you have posted.
 
I feel like it's dealing with people who don't think that words mean what they really mean. Semantics are important. Looks like your son was correct from what you have posted.

Well let's hope that George Zimmerman gets to try that little bit of semantic sophistry on a Jury and see what they think it means.
 
I'll be lucky if this post goes thru due to my laptop has PMS or something but I have a question.

Does anyone remember DeeDee saying in her interview that after GZ asked 'what are you doing here?' TM responded, 'My Dad is here' or something to that effect? TIA

Going back to lurking before I am knocked offline again.

wm
 
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