17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

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You know it's very hard to focus on what actually happened that night, which is why the thread is here, when we keep getting side tracked and derailed with picking sides on racial issues. The FBI is investigating what happened and they will get to the bottom of it. In the meantime, a 17 year old was shot to death because GZ decided to follow him. That is what is important here and we are trying to find out what happened.

TM's parents have a right to be fired up over this. We don't need to add fuel to the fire and it's the main reason we still have issues today in this country. The Martin's are within their rights to seek any political help they need to get help. I have never heard them asking people to be anything more than peaceful. It's their right to ask questions and get answers. Someone in SPD gave them a reason to doubt the SA's decision.

If we are not part of the solution then we are part of the problem. We should all be calling for a complete investigation regarding the events that night and sleuthing what we know not contributing to discussions as to what we preceive as racial issues in this country. This is an individual case and should be treated as such. It's clear some have had issues in the past involving bad encounters and it is obvious by their posts but doesn't it belong on another forum?

You can't ever heal if you keep picking at sore. jmo
 
suzihawk said:
:waitasec:

Why would they claim to be representing him if he hadn't entered into some sort of agreement? I don't believe attorneys can speak on behalf of someone without their approval. JMO
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Potential for fame and fortune?! BTW it is against Florida Disciplinary Board for an attorney to approach a potential client.
 
TonyGatto said:
They both appeared on an Orlando TV station and when asked said they only spoke to him by phone IIRC. (Please don't ask for a link) :)
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Thanks for stepping up with the answer. I'm multi-tasking here and can't always reply in a timely manner. Obviously. :D

It was also on Lawrence O'Donnell's show.
 
So many questions for GM. But I'd like to hear the FBI or Special Prosecutor to GM - "Did you get out of your vehicle once you were advised "You don't need to do that."?"
2nd question - "Why then did you get out of your vehicle knowing the police were on their way?"
3rd question - "Did you identify yourself as Neighborhood watch?"
4th question - "What were you doing with your hands on his back when the witness yelled at you?"
 
annalia said:
Strange that they have been showing the most recent pictures of Trayvon, and he still looks like a normal kid. So I guess that's exactly what GZ saw that night, a normal kid, in jeans and a hoodie, just like we saw him wearing in pictures. Well if you don't count that gang bangin' Hershey's tshirt.

JMHO
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It's even stranger that despite what he posted on Twitter, or how many times he's been suspended from school, THOUSANDS of people are still standing with his family and calling for JUSTICE.
 
Horace Finklestein said:
C. We don't need you to do that, but you are within your rights to do so and it is not illegal.
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George Zimmerman had enough knowlege and training through his weapons permit and other sources to know precisely what was being said, and the fact that it was within his rights to follow Trayvon, and was not illegal does not relieve him of the responsibility of initiating and escalating a confrontation that led to the death of another.

It is not illegal for me to own an attack dog. If my ownership and stewardship of this dog, causes the death of a person I am legally responsible for my behavior and poor choices, so the issue is not the legality of his actions but the forseeable consequences of those actions.

With the information that George Zimmerman had the consequences of his actions that night were entirely foreseeable IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
mercuriod said:
And instead of George profiling Trayvon as a criminal, he could have rolled down his window and smiled nicely at Trayvon and said "hey young man, my name is George Zimmerman, I am the community neighborhood watch captain, it's raining outside would you like a ride to your door?"
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If only........

I want go O/T briefly and tell a story that I promise will tie directly back into this comment when I'm through. Some here at WS know that I am in the midst of a 2 year project of building a log house for my granddaughters on the side of a mountain in Tennessee.

CabinInTheFallA-1.jpg


About 6 months ago I took a crew of men up to frame in the roof structure that you see in this image. I was driving a dually truck pulling a trailer, loaded with lumber and other material, with Florida license plates.

About 2 miles from my driveway I looked in my rearview mirror to see blue lights flashing. I pulled over having no clue why I was being stopped. I was greeted by a Union County, Tennessee "good ole boy" Deputy who wanted to see my license and insurance. It didn't take long for me to realize why I was stopped.

Seems ole Papa's redneck azz was being profiled for out of state tags towing a load of lumber that, in the Deputy's view, needed checking out! It was a circumstance possibly even more suspicious than what Trayvon Martin was doing last February when he encountered Mr Zimmerman's ire.

In my situation, due to his sincerity and apparant zeal to protect the residents of the area, the situation rapidly diffused itself and this Deputy and I have become big pals. He goes by my place now on a regular basis just to check and make sure all is well when I'm not there.

It is a crying shame that something in the order of the comment to which I'm responding was beyond the grasp of George Zimmerman to consider. Trayvon Martin could be alive today.
 
:doh:

Alerts. Posts removed. Mods working overtime. The day has barely begun on the west coast!

There are a few on this thread that need to sit back and read the rules or they are going to be losing their posting privileges today. I'll be back later to see if things settled down or not.

:tos:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798"]Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



(This post lands at random)
 
Horace Finklestein said:
GZ obviously thought TM was acting suspiciously. He did the right thing by calling LE. There were 8 recent break ins in the neighborhood so why wouldn't he be suspicious?
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RBBM - The incidents occurred over 14/15 months, according to police documentation.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting-burglaries/index.html - ~"City officials posted police reports to the city website detailing eight burglary reports in the neighborhood in the 14 months prior to Martin's February 26 death." ~

~"In three of those incidents, black males were implicated by witnesses or arrests. A fourth incident was less clear."~

~"In the other four incidents, there were no witnesses or suspects, according to police reports."~

&

Sanford Police Department posted a pdf regarding the Burglary reports -
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf
---

It was dark and raining, could GZ have mistaken TM for someone else?
 
Sensei said:
George Zimmerman had enough knowlege and training through his weapons permit and other sources to know precisely what was being said, and the fact that it was within his rights to follow Trayvon, and was not illegal does not relieve him of the responsibility of initiating and escalating a confrontation that led to the death of another.

It is not illegal for me to own an attack dog. If my ownership and stewardship of this dog, causes the death of a person I am legally responsible for my behavior and poor choices, so the issue is not the legality of his actions but the forseeable consequences of those actions.

With the information that George Zimmerman had the consequences of his actions that night were entirely foreseeable IMO JMHO and stuff.
Click to expand...

Weapons training? How does that relate to being told "we don't need you to do that"? Following a person is not escalating a situation, but what TM may have done, attacking him, is. I don't think his actions created a situation that had any forsseable consequences...he got out of his car and was accosted by TM (yes, TM spoke to him first).
 
This sort of jumps backward, but I was afraid I'd forget. As to the "You got me" - if Trayvon said something, could it be "You shot me!" as in shock - "Oh my God you SHOT ME!!!"

If there was a struggle started by either (and sadly we may never know the whole truth) if Trayvon hit George at any point breaking his nose, they were apparently on pavement, George could have fallen and cut his head hitting the pavement as opposed to Trayvon slamming his head repeatedly into it. Actually, if his head was slammed repeatedly, I would expect more then a slice, even a big slice - at the very least there should have been a hematoma and lots of "mushy flesh" all around the cut.

And what I really, really need to know is when the gun came out? Or when George might have put his hand on it or reached for it. At that point Trayvon would have legitimately been in fear for his own life. Maybe he DID approached GZ simply to see what the deal was, but when he realized there was a gun and he's in too close quarters to flee, you panic (at least I think most of us would and certainly anyone but a hardened criminal) and maybe he thought GZ was going to pull the gun and fought.

Maybe the "wise" think to do would have been to back up, put your hands up and say let's wait for the police, but good grief, who would be logical when a gun comes out?
 
Concerned Papa said:
If only........

I want go O/T briefly and tell a story that I promise will tie directly back into this comment when I'm through. Some here at WS know that I am in the midst of a 2 year project of building a log house for my granddaughters on the side of a mountain in Tennessee.

CabinInTheFallA-1.jpg


About 6 months ago I took a crew of men up to frame in the roof structure that you see in this image. I was driving a dually truck pulling a trailer, loaded with lumber and other material, with Florida license plates.

About 2 miles from my driveway I looked in my rearview mirror to see blue lights flashing. I pulled over having no clue why I was being stopped. I was greeted by a Union County, Tennessee "good ole boy" Deputy who wanted to see my license and insurance. It didn't take long for me to realize why I was stopped.

Seems ole Papa's redneck azz was being profiled for out of state tags towing a load of lumber that, in the Deputy's view, needed checking out! It was a circumstance possibly even more suspicious than what Trayvon Martin was doing last February when he encountered Mr Zimmerman's ire.

In my situation, due to his sincerity and apparant zeal to protect the residents of the area, the situation rapidly diffused itself and this Deputy and I have become big pals. He goes by my place now on a regular basis just to check and make sure all is well when I'm not there.

It is a crying shame that something of the order of the comment to which I'm responding was beyond the grasp of George Zimmerman to consider. Trayvon Martin could be alive today.
Click to expand...


You are quite wise, Papa! This tragedy could have turned out very differently. It is all about choices...

O/T: WOW! Lovely log home you have built-- a true mountain retreat! Thank you for sharing the picture!
 
csziggy said:
After the following interview, Joe Oliver has nearly disappeared from the media. Video at the link:
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Yes that has been quite evident...no further interviews after his "close" relationship was exposed.

In the last few days the other friend, Taffey??, has admitted that he has neither seen nor spoken with GZ AT ALL since the event nor did he for WEEKS prior to the incident. He admitted that there has only been one voice mail left during that time period and he avoided answering whether HE left the message or GZ left a message for him.

Also, CNN this a.m. put up the REAL information on the 8 burglaries....only FOUR are suspected to have been done by black suspects. The rest have no identified suspects at all.

EDITED TO ADD: The CNN research into the burglaries also discovered that the one that supposedly happened at Taffey's own house NEVER occurred....it was called in by GZ but when LE arrived there was NO ONE at all in the area and no sign of any kind of attempt to break in.
 
Horace Finklestein said:
Weapons training? How does that relate to being told "we don't need you to do that"? Following a person is not escalating a situation, but what TM may have done, attacking him, is. I don't think his actions created a situation that had any forsseable consequences...he got out of his car and was accosted by TM (yes, TM spoke to him first).
Click to expand...

Do you have children? What do you tell them to do if some stranger is following them? Children from pre-school on are taught of "stranger danger". And YES a stranger following and stalking someone IS escalating a situation. You have a link proving that TM spoke to GZ first? Had GZ done as he was TOLD by the police non-emergency operator and NOT followed TM then TM would be alive today instead of gunned down by <modsnip> George. jmo, imo and all that jazz
 
Malapoo said:
This sort of jumps backward, but I was afraid I'd forget. As to the "You got me" - if Trayvon said something, could it be "You shot me!" as in shock - "Oh my God you SHOT ME!!!"

If there was a struggle started by either (and sadly we may never know the whole truth) if Trayvon hit George at any point breaking his nose, they were apparently on pavement, George could have fallen and cut his head hitting the pavement as opposed to Trayvon slamming his head repeatedly into it. Actually, if his head was slammed repeatedly, I would expect more then a slice, even a big slice - at the very least there should have been a hematoma and lots of "mushy flesh" all around the cut.

And what I really, really need to know is when the gun came out? Or when George might have put his hand on it or reached for it. At that point Trayvon would have legitimately been in fear for his own life. Maybe he DID approached GZ simply to see what the deal was, but when he realized there was a gun and he's in too close quarters to flee, you panic (at least I think most of us would and certainly anyone but a hardened criminal) and maybe he thought GZ was going to pull the gun and fought.

Maybe the "wise" think to do would have been to back up, put your hands up and say let's wait for the police, but good grief, who would be logical when a gun comes out?
Click to expand...

How would TM know that GZ was not some kind of robber pulling a gun on him trying to rob him, or some kind of pervert attempting to kidnap him?
 
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