17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[tehcloser]

According to this:

Trayvon Refused To Run

http://global.christianpost.com/news/trayvon-martins-last-call-reveals-he-refused-to-run-71757/

I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run," ABC News reported.

Next line in article:


Martin did try to flee from Zimmerman's pursuit, but found himself cornered.

 

[cityslick]

Yet there is also NO evidence that Trayvon was pissed off, Mad, ready to fight. There is NO evidence that he wanted to turn and confront Zimmerman since Zimmerman himself in his own words charactarized him as running away...that does not fit with a hair trigger, going to lash out at this person guy. Numerous examples do NOT show that in this instance Trayvon Martin did anything other than try to get away from George Zimmerman, and the only evidence we have of anything otherwise is the word of the man who will surely go to jail if he admits that he stopped Trayvon and attempted to hold him there until LE arrived. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Has all the evidence come out in this case? < mod snip >

 

[suzihawk]

How do we know this?

It was stated by Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC last night. He usually does his homework and is pretty reputable, IMO I don't know if there are transcripts or not.

 

[Sensei]

According to this:

Trayvon Refused To Run

http://global.christianpost.com/news/trayvon-martins-last-call-reveals-he-refused-to-run-71757/

I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run," ABC News reported.

Many people have attributed his decision to not run as hubris, that he did not want to appear frightened. I on the other hand, feel as if he was aware that if he ran, it is likely that the person following him would chase, and chase even harder. When you are confronted by an animal, a dog, or a bear, all experts tell you do NOT run, when you run that automatically activates the Chase the prey gene, and it is not limited to animals, when you run you are in effect daring someone to catch you.

IMO I think the idea was to not draw further attention to himself by running and hope that the weird person would just go away. JMHO and stuff.

 

[LambChop]

Arguing this is like dealing with my kids.

Son says he's going to check and make sure his sister has done her homework.

Me: I don't need you to do that.

Ruckus heard from daughter's bedroom.

Me (raising voice): I thought I told you not to do that?

Son: No dad, you said you didn't NEED me to do that

You forgot.....followed by a timeout. lol

 

[Marshmallow]

And instead of pummeling GZ, TM could have gone home. No way on Earth GZ could have caught TM if TM wanted to get away.

it may be that the Mr Martin did try to get away or fight back and that is what caused Mr Zimmerman to lose control and fire his weapon.It may be as simple as frustration on Mr Zimmerman's part that just finally reached it's limits and he blew.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Well let's hope that George Zimmerman gets to try that little bit of semantic sophistry on a Jury and see what they think it means.

Now facts are sophistry...hmm. I'm guessing GZ will be fine as long as the jury isn't selected from a certain county beginning with "P".

 

[Sensei]

I'll be lucky if this post goes thru due to my laptop has PMS or something but I have a question.

Does anyone remember DeeDee saying in her interview that after GZ asked 'what are you doing here?' TM responded, 'My Dad is here' or something to that effect? TIA

Going back to lurking before I am knocked offline again.

wm

I remember it being on the transcript when it was being shown on one of the HLN programs, IIRC, they were showing it and we were hearing the recording of the conversation with the Attorney at the same time, but I have been unable to find a link to it in the limited time that I have to look and post.

 

[mercuriod]

I'll be lucky if this post goes thru due to my laptop has PMS or something but I have a question.

Does anyone remember DeeDee saying in her interview that after GZ asked 'what are you doing here?' TM responded, 'My Dad is here' or something to that effect? TIA

Going back to lurking before I am knocked offline again.

wm

Who is DeeDee? And if that is the 15 year old gf's name, should we be posting minor "witnesses" names on a public board?

 

[Adrienne37]

Just curious since we are now allowed to be discussing Trayvon's Twitter, are we allowed to post these types of things that are Zimmerman's?



~jmo~

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I'll be lucky if this post goes thru due to my laptop has PMS or something but I have a question.

Does anyone remember DeeDee saying in her interview that after GZ asked 'what are you doing here?' TM responded, 'My Dad is here' or something to that effect? TIA

Going back to lurking before I am knocked offline again.

wm

No, do not believe that was ever stated...by what has been stated and remember it's all hearsay for we didn't hear it out of the horses mouth...after GZ allegedly asked what are you doing here, TM had not time to respond for the GF claims he 'must've been shoved or something' cause the phone went dead..

I posted one upthread from Radaronline...but here's another...

The 16-year-old girl, who was not identified, said in a phone call recorded by ABC News this morning that as Trayvon was walking he told her "some man was watching him" so he pulled his hoodie over his head.

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.

On the one-minute recording Crump played for reporters this morning, the young woman said Trayvon told her a man was following him and that he was trying to get away.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...riend-speaks-details-20120320,0,4361073.story

 

[Sensei]

Now facts are sophistry...hmm. I'm guessing GZ will be fine as long as the jury isn't selected from a certain county beginning with "P".

Yes, it is sophisty of the basest kind.

there are ONLY two ways that statement could be interpreted,

A. We don't need you to do that, but by all means go right ahead it will be helpful...

B. We don't need you to do that, DON'T DO IT....

The statement We don't need you to do that was not simply informational and was not meant that way. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Marshmallow]

Not hardly. My little brothers are around his age and they would NEVER post the drug references, pics of tattoos (they don't have any so it's beside the point), life nonsense. TM was not like all teens.

I just looked at my friend's sons FB pages and sadly, many are exactly like that. That's the main reason none of them show on my FB page, it bothered me too much to see these once sweet little boys (and girls) now acting like gonna never be gangstas.
no, not all teens are alike but sadly many think this gangsta stuff is to be emulated.

 

[mercuriod]

Just curious since we are now allowed to be discussing Trayvon's Twitter, are we allowed to post these types of things that are Zimmerman's?



~jmo~

Well I would certainly think so, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[ladonna]

Why would he run? He probably knew Zimmerman would shoot him the back if he ran. He had as much right to stand his ground as Zimmerman did.


~jmo~

Was Zimmerman's gun drawn at that point? I don't know.

 

[suzihawk]

Until he's charged with something why retain and pay him, for what?

:waitasec:

Why would they claim to be representing him if he hadn't entered into some sort of agreement? I don't believe attorneys can speak on behalf of someone without their approval. JMO

 

[Adrienne37]

Of course they may be shown. But am I the only person that believed for weeks that a 5 year old picture was a currect one? It may be tiresome, but one way to end the topic is helping us understand why a more current picture was NOT used. Why not the photo TM chose for himself?
We do need to see the REAL face GZ saw that night...because we are trying to understand his reactions.

Start with TRUTH...an accurate up to date photo. Then bring in the other pictures. What if the media just ran TM's Twitter picture...and a photo of GZ at 13 years old? Would we approve of THAT?

I've seen all the pictures of Trayvon that I need to see. A very well-groomed, immaculately dressed kid. I have not a care in the world what Twitter pictures are posted of Trayvon. It's simply not relevant. I'll tell you this, if I were in a dark alley at night with Trayvon at one end and Zimmerman at the other, I'd make the decision to head out Trayvon's end.


~jmo~

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Yes, it is sophisty of the basest kind.

there are ONLY two ways that statement could be interpreted,

A. We don't need you to do that, but by all means go right ahead it will be helpful...

B. We don't need you to do that, DON'T DO IT....

The statement We don't need you to do that was not simply informational and was not meant that way. IMO JMHO and stuff.

C. We don't need you to do that, but you are within your rights to do so and it is not illegal.

 

[csziggy]

Nevertheless, for a politican...to say this "statisically rare" case proves Blacks are being hunted likedogs by Whites is outrageous. This woman is NOT THE FIRST to say things like this. It's offensive and untrue...yet unchallenged. It is doing TM's family no favors.

Why is this rhetoric being tolerated by thse who support TM? Statiistics prove it is a LIE. Where is the outrage?

WHERE ARE TM's supporters when lies are told?

Or is anything A-OK? ReallY?

The question of who is really killing all these Black young men...and the reasons that GZ might have looked an an innocent young man with suspicion...MAY BE avoided by the media, and on message Boards that do not allow a broader discussion...but the actual STATISTICS will no doubt become part of any trial...and is ALREADY what people are discussing out in the real world. People who WANT to save those children slaughtered on the street every day...are not going to be manipulated by Politican's outrageous distortions. Her words are vile, not only because they are lies...but because she is deliberately avoiding real issue....so she does not keep one Black child safer.

Oh wait...maybe the one..who every 10 years is shot in a victimmized community by a Neighborhood Watch Captain.

But thoysands will keep dying from her comfortable denial of FACT.

In Sanford, there has been a long history of racism and of the police not investigating crimes with blacks as victims. I think that is why THIS case has been the one to bring the tension to a flash point.

Some historical background:

Modern Sanford is built on the shoulders of several historically black communities. Goldsborough, incorporated in 1891, was one of the earliest black towns in Florida.
"[It had] its own post office, its own jail, its own city council, its own everything," says Francis Oliver, who curates the Goldsborough Westside Historical Museum. Her daughter is an attorney for Martin's family.
Oliver says Goldsborough was absorbed by Sanford in 1911, a move that left bad feelings over how the town was treated.
http://www.npr.org/2012/03/22/149164373/racial-tension-runs-through-sanfords-roots

Sun Apr 01, 2012 at 07:27 AM PDT
Sanford, Florida's Long, Troubled History of Racism & Racial Injustice
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...roubled-History-of-Racial-Injustice-Prejudice
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...roubled-History-of-Racial-Injustice-Prejudice

When Jackie Robinson was beginning to break the race barrier in baseball, the minor league team he played for had their winter practice in Sanford. Even though Robinson tried to follow the Jim Crow laws, the City of Sanford would not let the integrated team play. The team manager moved their winter headquarters to Daytona Beach.
http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/resources/lessonplans/hs_es_jackie_robinson.htm

Recently there have been some high profile cases that have continued that racism and selective enforcement:

Warrant issued for son of Sanford cop accused of attacking homeless man
December 30, 2010|By Amy L. Edwards and Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
An arrest warrant was issued for the 21-year-old son of a Sanford police lieutenant charged in a sucker-punching attack on a homeless man that broke his nose — an attack that was captured on video.

Justin Collison is wanted on a charge of aggravated battery, Sanford police Capt. David Del Rosso said Thursday. As of about 2:30 p.m. Thursday, Collison was not picked up.

A video shot by a witness in downtown Sanford on Dec. 4 shows Justin Collison attacking Sherman Ware, and then walking away and punching another man.

Collison is the son of Lt. Chris Collison, who is assigned to the police department's patrol division.

More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...sanford-officers-david-del-rosso-homeless-man

And this one, uninvestigated until publicity forced the Sanford PD to do so:

Fatal bullet hit teenager in back, records reveal
They also show that 2 security guards failed to identify themselves before firing at Travares McGill at a Sanford complex.
January 29, 2006|By Rene Stutzman, Sentinel Staff Writer
SANFORD -- Security guard William Patrick Swofford told investigators he opened fire on 16-year-old Travares McGill last summer because he felt he was in imminent danger. McGill was coming at him in a car, tires squealing.

But a review of more than 600 pages of evidence shows that the bullet that killed McGill hit him in the middle of the back and that Swofford kept firing after the car was no longer headed toward him.

The fatal bullet, one of three to hit McGill, tore through his back, ripped open his aorta and penetrated his heart, according to an autopsy report. Seconds later, McGill's car slowed, began to coast, then plowed into a nearby fence.

Neither Swofford nor his partner, Bryan Ansley, was injured.
More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-01-29/news/GUARDS29_1_sanford-ansley-security-guards

:rant:

There have been thousands of killings of young black men by other blacks men, many (I have no figures) of black men by white (or other races) men. But THIS killing happened in Sanford, a town with an abysmal history of racism and with a police department that has earned the distrust of the black citizens.

Add to that, the misuse of the Stand Your Ground law to evade investigating a death and we end up with what we have - a case of national notoriety that is shining a light on things the City of Sanford, the Sanford Police Department, and many, many in this country would rather leave unexamined.

While killings of this sort may not happen as often as is being portrayed, they still happen far too often. The issues in this case need to be examined and this country needs to look at why we have been killing off or criminalizing a major portion of our population for decades. We are losing too many of our young men of color to killings, drugs, and the penal system. This is a good opportunity to try to understand why and try to change that.

:rant:

My opinion ONLY, except where I have provided links.

 

[Isabelle]

Yes, it is sophisty of the basest kind.

there are ONLY two ways that statement could be interpreted,

A. We don't need you to do that, but by all means go right ahead it will be helpful...

B. We don't need you to do that, DON'T DO IT....

The statement We don't need you to do that was not simply informational and was not meant that way. IMO JMHO and stuff.

or, We don't need you to do that (and place yourself at risk).