17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[tlcya]

I just left this area a few days ago. Visiting my mom in Palm Bay, which is not far from Sandford. Its interesting how this story hits older folk. My parents were raised in south, during a time when if you saw a car approaching you ( especially at night) or heard one coming from behind, you had to duck into the field, for fear of what they would do to you if they saw you. Yes, they would aim their cars at you.

But upon further listening to their stories, it makes sense to me why this case means so much to them. Sure you won't see them in the protesting lines. You won't see them posting here, or calling to the local radio stations, but these folks are paying attention to this case. Because they remember... they remember the times when folks of color would "disapear" and no action would be done to those thought responsible. You could be dragged out of your house, and beat / killed, and you'd never see justice.

So i just figured, i'd give a view point on how another demographic, this time age, is viewing this case.

Thanks for giving us a view from another perspective Rob.

 

[Gin]

Then why was I accessed extra dues when they paved the streets in my condo complex? Why was I accessed extra dues when the last hurricane to hit my area ripped up the palm trees and they had to be replaced? My written HOA states that all owners are responsible for all common grounds, and as an owner therefore a member of the HOA equal owner of all common ground.

jmo, imo and all that jazz

JMO/IMO--Your experience is exactly what happens to condo owners in a condominium. There are $$ in reserves for emergencies, repairs. Sometimes expenses will exceed those monies-like big roof repairs/replacement, major painting/repairing the outside of buildings, repairing hurricane damage. Those expenses are met by assessments or extra dues. All are responsible.

 

[Nana46]

I just left this area a few days ago. Visiting my mom in Palm Bay, which is not far from Sandford. Its interesting how this story hits older folk. My parents were raised in south, during a time when if you saw a car approaching ( especially at night) or heard one coming from behind, you had to duck into the field, for fear of what they would do to you if they saw you. Yes, they would aim their cars at you.

But upon further listening to their stories, it makes sense to me why this case means so much to them. Sure you won't see them in the protesting lines. You won't see them posting here, or calling to the local radio stations, but these folks are paying attention to this case. Because they remember... they remember the times when folks of color would "disappear" and no action would be done to those thought responsible. You could be dragged out of your house, and beat / killed, and you'd never see justice.

So i just figured, i'd give a view point on how another demographic, this time age, is viewing this case.

Sad isn't it.....what a sad situation this world has gotten into.....I have always lived in the south and I understand what you are saying...I don't abide by it by no means...it is wrong wrong wrong and pure evil.
Thank you for your post.

ETA: meaning I understand the plight of folks who had to fear for their lives with no hint of justice for them.

 

[Isabelle]

BBM...Not too terribly surprised... I was born and for the most part raised in New Orleans until we moved to another city when I was 13..

True Story.. Many of the guys in the old neighborhood went into what we referred to as the "THREE P PROFESSION".. They either joined the priesthood, joined the police force, or went to the pen..
Many years later we came to realize some of those that chose the priesthood and some who joined the police force shouldn't have even bothered.. They should have just gone straight to the pen......JMHO..

Hey girl! I'm a New Orleans native by birth too. Never closed down the police station in that city, even during Katrina!

 

[LambChop]

I know GZ didn't give an address - my fingers were getting ahead of my thoughts. The ambulance video is what I was referring to - when TM's body had been found. The dispatch was given 2 different addresses by police dispatch.... they were talking about whether or not to approach, etc. I would hope they were dispatching them to where the actual body was.

Where the body was located is in the police report. They are not individual homes so the ambulance would have to go to whatever cut through in the buildings was closest. It appears his body was closer to the middle of that one row of homes so either cut through would have gotten them there. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

When Trayvon was laying there face down in the grass his hoodie was not up. This 911 witness says it is a black guy dead.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Y1BPOaCwY&feature=channel"]Trayvon Martin [SHOCKING FULL] Murder Caught on Tape | Killed By George Zimmerman 911 call #4 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[LinasK]

It would be interesting. Were there any contracts or agreements signed by Zimmerman? Waivers?

Were hours of patrol assigned? I think they work in shifts. Does their brochure override his right to legal self-protection?

He was a volunteer Neighborhood Watch, so am I! You don't patrol, you don't sign a contract, you don't get paid, and there are no shifts. I'll call in the middle of the night if there is an accident or loud noise like a gunshot.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I just left this area a few days ago. Visiting my mom in Palm Bay, which is not far from Sandford. Its interesting how this story hits older folk. My parents were raised in south, during a time when if you saw a car approaching you ( especially at night) or heard one coming from behind, you had to duck into the field, for fear of what they would do to you if they saw you. Yes, they would aim their cars at you.

But upon further listening to their stories, it makes sense to me why this case means so much to them. Sure you won't see them in the protesting lines. You won't see them posting here, or calling to the local radio stations, but these folks are paying attention to this case. Because they remember... they remember the times when folks of color would "disapear" and no action would be done to those thought responsible. You could be dragged out of your house, and beat / killed, and you'd never see justice.

So i just figured, i'd give a view point on how another demographic, this time age, is viewing this case.

Your parents must be horrified! I feel very sad for the older generation of Black Americans. They lived through segregation of schools, the Civil Rights Movement --- a horrible, but proud moment in our History.

I hate to think of how much we are letting down generations before us... we shouldn't be taking steps back... we should be taking steps forward and carrying on with the message of basic HUMAN rights and standing together for a CAUSE.

I believe this case has a lot more to do with the SPD than it does with Trayvon's race when he was killed. I think if Trayvon would have been any other race, the SPD would have arrested GZ on the spot. I don't think GZ killed him because he was black... but the SPD has been the one who made this about race and that is what we need to fight against!

MOO

 

[Emeralgem]

LOL, I saw all the weird stuff from the introduction of bikinis, heavens forbid the bikini underwear, hot pants, mini skirts, lol, bell bottoms, going braless, hahaha I did all those things right through to thong bathing suits. Back it the day it was 'if you got it, flaunt it".
Now I am little old lady, but if it wouldn't gross people out, I would do it again.
Long live the spirit of fashion!!

Truth be known when I was growing up and before I went to college no one thought about getting their ears pierced.. It was thought of as being trashy.. No one had any tattoos either.. Only a drunken sailor would get a tattoo...JMHO

 

[LinasK]

I know, me too. But those packages make it impossible to drop the phone because of the price. jmo

I won't because hubby works for AT&T and it's cheaper for me to use the land-line! I only use my cell when I'm out of the house and it annoys me when dr.'s offices & my daughter's school use my cell as my primary- leave me a message on my land-line, don't bug me when I'm out!

 

[ThoughtFox]

I put up the 911 Calls yesterday as well, in case anyone needs them for reference.

Thanks thoughtfox for going through the trouble, half the time I forget about the media thread.

The Media thread is at the top of the Hot Cases forum. Anyone can post there, but there's no discussion, only news from MSM sources.

It's great if you want to go back and read through all the articles or work out your own timeline of events.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166507"]Trayvon Martin Shooting Media Thread - NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Peliman]

Fox news reporting the grand jury will not be convened in the Trayvon Martin case. Reporting that prosecutors would only approach the grand jury if 1st degree murder charges were pursued. If GZ is charged it will be for less than first degree.

Heard, not linked...reporting what was said. Take it with a grain of salt. No links yet.

 

[LambChop]

I just left this area a few days ago. Visiting my mom in Palm Bay, which is not far from Sandford. Its interesting how this story hits older folk. My parents were raised in south, during a time when if you saw a car approaching ( especially at night) or heard one coming from behind, you had to duck into the field, for fear of what they would do to you if they saw you. Yes, they would aim their cars at you.

But upon further listening to their stories, it makes sense to me why this case means so much to them. Sure you won't see them in the protesting lines. You won't see them posting here, or calling to the local radio stations, but these folks are paying attention to this case. Because they remember... they remember the times when folks of color would "disappear" and no action would be done to those thought responsible. You could be dragged out of your house, and beat / killed, and you'd never see justice.

So i just figured, i'd give a view point on how another demographic, this time age, is viewing this case.

I think we all have had enough of this type of behavior from people who are suppose to be in charge of providing us with safety. If we don't all stand together it will only continue. We should all stand our ground and say "no more." I think some of those in authority are trying to find a way to cover their pattooies. jmo

 

[kimpage]

Like a gold grill? I've never in my life met a white woman with a grill! I have got to get out more!

Yep i am not rich or tough either..LOL IMHO

 

[Gin]

He was a volunteer Neighborhood Watch, so am I! You don't patrol, you don't sign a contract, you don't get paid, and there are no shifts. I'll call in the middle of the night if there is an accident or loud noise like a gunshot.

Hi LinasK,
I have been involved in two homeowner's associations with neighborhood watch groups. The attorneys that advised both boards strongly recommended anyone that was to be a part of neighborhood watch was to sign a simple form. This form was to note that you understood and will respect these guidelines: no guns/weapons, no pursuing, no patrolling, you are only to call 911. (Not a contract for services, more like a memo of understanding.)
Both HOA boards followed their attorney's advice and required this of anyone involved with neighborhood watch.

This gets back to the HOA (or condo assn), and their boards have a fiduciary duty to protect assets. By having signed memos of understanding, they were protecting their board, the association and their owners.

 

[LinasK]

Hi LinasK,
I have been involved in two homeowner's associations with neighborhood watch groups. The attorneys that advised both boards strongly recommended anyone that was to be a part of neighborhood watch was to sign a simple form. This form was to note that you understood and will respect these guidelines: no guns/weapons, no pursuing, no patrolling, you are only to call 911. (Not a contract for services, more like a memo of understanding.)
Both HOA boards followed their attorney's advice and required this of anyone involved with neighborhood watch.

This gets back to the HOA (or condo assn), and their boards have a fiduciary duty to protect assets. By having signed memos of understanding, they were protecting their board, the association and their owners.

Okay, so your agreement was with the HOA, not LE. My NW meeting that I attended was not set up through my HOA (which has no power here because they are private houses, not condos).

 

[frenchvixen]

JMO, I believe the only reason Corey would have used a grand jury would have been in the instance that she wasn't sure whether to go forward.
Now that she will be making the decision, herself, I think she's going to prosecute. By not using the grand jury, she's keeping a close hold on the evidence she will be using at trial. Smart move.

I just read that to mean that there would be no charges bought to GM. I used to be a paralegal in my former but I have gotten really rusty. Isn't the GJ secret anyways?

 

[francie]

BETH KARAS... on HLN with Mike Galanos (my transcription)
4/9/12 @12:15pm EDT

RE: Angela Corey’s decision not to use grand jury YET…

GALANOS: So, what do you make of this, Beth? We were kind of looking, I think, at April 10th as a deadline; either you’re going to charge him or not or send it to a grand jury. Now one of the options is off the table, it’s not going to a grand jury, what does that mean for an arrest?

KARAS: You shouldn’t consider April 10th as a deadline. The prior prosecutor state attorney Wolfinger had said that he was going to start presenting evidence on April 10th. Angela Corey obviously was not bound by that, because she’s a new prosecutor, and everything started fresh with her & her investigation, and she had said all along she didn’t necessarily think she would have to have a grand jury.

Now, it doesn’t mean it will never be presented to a grand jury. Should Zimmerman be charged, what Angela Corey is saying is, I don’t need the grand jury for that, I can make the decision.

What happens then, if there are felony charges filed, is there will be a subsequent proceeding, one of which will be the grand jury or a preliminary hearing. And preliminary hearings are, many states have them in lieu of a grand jury as a probable cause finding by a judge instead of by a grand jury.

But you have a right by the Constitution to have a review of an arrest on felony charges either by a judge at a preliminary hearing or a grand jury and that’s the grand jury process. Both are probable cause findings, it’s a subsequent finding after the initial arrest. But again the arrest would be based on probable cause as well.

We see preliminary hearings all the time, in Calif we covered it for Conrad Murray, for example, but we also see grand juries.. Casey Anthony in Orange County was charged by a grand jury and then she was arrested. The grand jury voted to indict her then she was arrested, so you don’t have to have an arrest before a grand jury.

But Angela Corey says she will make a decision, and there will no grand jury INITIALLY. So I’m not surprised, that this announcement, that she issued a press release today, though, Mike because people are waiting for April 10th and she needed to say, look, nothing is going to happen tomorrow, I’m not using it (the grand jury).

GALANOS: So what is going on, do you think with her & her team of homicide investigators, what evidence, forensic tests, what are they looking at, toxicology reports, all that.

KARAS: Right. They’re looking at, yeah, clearly the autopsy report, which we haven’t been privy to, will tell a lot. It will tell presumably the distance of the shot, was it a contact shot, was it from some distance, where was the entrance wound, was there an exit wound, what was the trajectory of the bullet that will help perhaps tell the position of the bodies at the time or Trayvon’s body at the time he was shot.

And she’s talking to all the witnesses, probably more witnesses than the Sanford Police had spoken to at the time they initially closed it out. She can take sworn statements from witnesses without putting them in front of a grand jury. And the toxicology, of course of Trayvon Martin that may or may not show something about his state of mind at the time.

So there’s a lot to investigate, it shouldn’t be rushed, there are no deadlines. And if he’s charged, THEN a clock starts ticking in terms of a speedy trial or time to present it to a preliminary hearing or a grand jury. But until he’s charged, there’s no reason that they have to, except for public pressure or political pressure, rush the investigation.

 

[Gin]

Okay, so your agreement was with the HOA, not LE. My NW meeting that I attended was not set up through my HOA (which has no power here because they are private houses, not condos).

Probably much of this varies by neighborhood. Some neighborhoods are solely private, it sounds like yours is one like that.
We've lived in two neighborhoods of private homes (referenced in my NW experience) that also have HOA's. We paid dues to maintain common areas (mowing, watering, play equipment, etc), and we also were responsible for roads. (and I now know to find out more in advance about what the HOA is responsible for, because the road part wasn't cheap. Yikes!)
Back to our scheduled programming....

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Trayvon's hoodie could be a very important piece of evidence.

The officer thought the grass on Zimmerman's back was so important without even knowing what Zimmeman's SYG claim was he noted it in his report. He failed to note if there was any grass on Trayvon's back.

Without anyone noting what was on Trayvon's back, the officers rolled him over to give CPR thus losing any evidence that might have been there.

Since Trayvon's hoodie was not up when they did that any evidence of grass would be preserved on the back side of his hoodie if he had been on his back during the wrestling match with his hoodie up. IMO