17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[deelytful1]

BBM

Getting even?

Why not seeking justice?

I can't for the life of me understand how everyone isn't outraged that an unarmed teen was shot and killed by someone who had no authority to do so!

I can't understand this..

It so appears GZ was too over the top, took that CW program as a reason to harass and accuse innocent people who GZ deemed 'suspicious'...Had I lived in that community, I'd think GZ was the problem, not the solution to all these alleged break ins...he's not a cop. he's not trained, his judgement seems flawed for he has a violent streak...A violent man who was able to obtain a CWP....is a danger and will continue to be a danger if he's not taken into custody....:maddening:

I swear...I just don't understand the thought process of some...:banghead:

I think most people feel your pain and frustration :moo:

 

[grammieto5]

While reading about the possible lawsuits, I'm wondering if no charges are brought against GZ, or if charges are brought against GZ and there is a trial and GZ is found not quilty could GZ file any lawsuits? In March I read Seminole State College expelled
GZ for safety reasons. I read this in the Orlando Sentinel, March 25 2012.

 

[vlpate]

If the HOA is sued with the policy that only covers $1 million and the jury awards $10 million the homeowners will all jointly be assessed by the HOA for the reminder of the award. You, as an individual homeowner in this community end up paying the remainder split equally with everyone else who is a property owner. That is how it works.

GZ was not an employee of the HOA and I have not seen anything that claims he was. jmo

BEM: I don't know where this information is coming from, but it is incorrect. If the HOA lost this potential lawsuit, the HOA could assess higher monthly fees, but they have to be reasonable. The HOA cannot take the judgment, divide it by 100 homeowners, and send them a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

We pay higher prices (in some cases), for clothing because of loss due to shoplifting that leads to increased security in department stores. The homeowners may feel the effect of the judgment, but they are not going to be sued or made to outright absorb attorney fees or the monetary judgment in the event the HOA loses in court. The original question, btw, was if they condo owners could be sued.

The HOA will likely sue the management company - that's just a guess.

I don't think GZ was an employee of the HOA or management company - even courtesy officers are not employees, they are contract employees required to carry their own liability insurance, in most cases. IMO

VERY interesting case if it comes about. IMO

 

[Desdemona]

To ensure the integrity of HER investigation...I don't believe she will opt to drop the charges if she's bringing in the GF to testify at The Grand Jury.

I also believe alot lies on the phone call GZ placed into 911...his past calls, his NW status....could be alot she had to put together in order to enforce an arrest of GZ...and keeping silent, invoking her investigative powers to stop the flow of documents under the Sunshine Law...all to protect the integrity of this...at least that's my thoughts on it...

BBM

GZ has not been charged, has he?

 

[Karmady]

Hi Karmady,
Are you saying that even with some sort of memo of understanding, Z's behavior as a volunteer security guard will still put the Board/Owners/Association at risk? If so, that makes sense.

Yes. With or without that type of document, the HOA could be subject to liability, imo. It's just a piece of evidence going to the issues of negligence and/or agency. It's all quite complicated and depends on a lot of factors. Imo, though, the claimants ultimately will settle for the available limits of insurance and, to the extent they want to seek more than that, will set up the insurance company for a bad faith claim that would support a judgment in excess of those limits. While other scenarios are possible, I just think that one is the most likely. And it assumes that there is APPLICABLE insurance -- which there may or may not be.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have to show that the HOA was liable in some manner. If he was "well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines", then the HOA did what they were supposed to do, and Zimmerman acted on his own. To put it another way...

If Zimmerman crashed into another car on common HOA grounds (while "patrolling" as he was told not to do), would Zimmerman be solely liable, or would the victim be able to sue the HOA for the incident Zimmerman was liable for?

That may very well depend on just who else, within the HOA, knew that George was packing... JMO~

 

[Chris_Texas]

I think we all have had enough of this type of behavior from people who are suppose to be in charge of providing us with safety. If we don't all stand together it will only continue. We should all stand our ground and say "no more." I think some of those in authority are trying to find a way to cover their pattooies. jmo

Older black American's grew up and lived half their lives in a nation in which they could be and were murdered with impunity, they lived in a nation in which they have to keep their head and eyes down, stay humble, stay funny, know their place and not get uppity. Sit in the right chair, live in the right home or town, shop and the right store, drink from the black man's fountain, and never ever make a white man mad. Never let him notice you at all.

As children they listened to their grandparents tell them stories of when they were slaves. Imagine your grandmother showing you the shackle scars on her ankles, or grandpa showing you the slashmarks carved by bullwhip.

These things are now illegal, and the laws are even sometimes enforced, but the feelings remain. The sickness is still there, like a cancer in remission.

 

[jjenny]

BBM

GZ has not been charged, has he?

That's correct, he hasn't been charged with anything.

 

[vlpate]

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-neighborhood-watch-liability,0,140761.story

Plus, lawyers say, Exhibit A would be a newsletter sent by the association to residents in February, the same month as the shooting. It said Zimmerman was the go-to person for residents who had been the victims of a crime.


Under the heading "Neighborhood Watch," the newsletter's message recommended that residents first call police and then "please contact our Captain, George Zimmerman ... so he can be aware and help address the issue with other residents."

That seeming endorsement of Zimmerman exposes the 7-year-old association to possible legal action by Martin's parents, homeowners association attorneys said.

Has anyone seen a copy of this letter? I'd be interested to know who actually sent it out, the HOA, NW, or the management office. Was this all that was on the "newsletter", or just part of the monthly newsletter.

TIA to anyone with info

 

[grammieto5]

OK, I need to know, what is a grill? I'm guessing it's something that goes in ones mouth, like a tongue ring maybe ????

 

[Karmady]

I can't believe he HOA is now a target. Just unbelievable the lengths people go to for revenge. Has it even been established that he was acting as a neighborhood watch person that night?

Just to be clear since I have commented on this subject. I am NOT saying whether I think the HOA should or should not be sued or found liable. I'm just saying what I think will likely happen and how I think it will play out. I expect that what you said in your post would be a principal defense for both the HOA and its insurer. That won't stop them from being sued and having to litigate it, though. Lawsuits are frequently extortionate. Whether there will be one in this case and whether it will be so remains to be seen, obviously. jmo

 

[gxm]

And as frustrated and baffled as we are, imagine how horrified and frightened you would be if you were the parent of a black child and lived in this state -- or any state.

The SYG law has victims of all colors. The loopholes in this law affect everyone, not only AAs. Just look at the Trevor Dooley case. He shot a man in front of his 8-year old daughter. This is not just an AA issue. IMO, it is an everyone issue.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Gin]

Has anyone seen a copy of this letter? I'd be interested to know who actually sent it out, the HOA, NW, or the management office. Was this all that was on the "newsletter", or just part of the monthly newsletter.

TIA to anyone with info

The link says it was the association. I think they are referencing the Condominium Owners Association.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Can an HOA file bankruptsy?

 

[octobermoon]

Older black American's grew up and lived half their lives in a nation in which they could be and were murdered with impunity, they lived in a nation in which they have to keep their head and eyes down, stay humble, stay funny, know their place and not get uppity. Sit in the right chair, live in the right home or town, shop and the right store, drink from the black man's fountain, and never ever make a white man mad. Never let him notice you at all.

As children they listened to their grandparents tell them stories of when they were slaves. Imagine your grandmother showing you the shackle scars on her ankles, or grandpa showing you the slashmarks carved by bullwhip.

These things are now illegal, and the laws are even sometimes enforced, but the feelings remain. The sickness is still there, like a cancer in remission.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you for this poignant post

 

[vlpate]

Yes. With or without that type of document, the HOA could be subject to liability, imo. It's just a piece of evidence going to the issues of negligence and/or agency. It's all quite complicated and depends on a lot of factors. Imo, though, the claimants ultimately will settle for the available limits of insurance and, to the extent they want to seek more than that, will set up the insurance company for a bad faith claim that would support a judgment in excess of those limits. While other scenarios are possible, I just think that one is the most likely. And it assumes that there is APPLICABLE insurance -- which there may or may not be.

I agree. I don't think the Martins really want a trial of any kind - they just want an arrest. I may be mistaken, but I think the arrest would be all they need to sue the HOA and obtain a settlement before there's a trial. Even Crump said this morning, they just want an arrest, they aren't asking for a conviction. I am going to ask an attorney this question...unless there's one here that can answer...or a paralegal? Beach?

eta: or Karmady, you seem pretty familiar with the law..

 

[katydid23]

And as frustrated and baffled as we are, imagine how horrified and frightened you would be if you were the parent of a black child and lived in this state -- or any state.

As a parent of mixed race kids I am frightened and terrified. But I am also angry at some of the black community for allowing their kids to live out this ' gangsta' fantasy life and to commit so much violence upon each other.

I am much more terrified that one of my kids is going to be gunned down by other young blacks than I am that they are going to be shot by a community watchman.

Sorry, but it is the truth.

 

[vlpate]

Can an HOA file bankruptsy?

Absolutely

 

[itsreenw]

I don't lack any historical perspective at all.

So okay. Let me come up with a closer analogy to grills. How about stovepipe pants that are falling off? That might be more close to grills.

(I actually do have a very clear understanding of the rebel flag, and the implications, and was there in Biloxi the day Mississippi was set to rule on whether to change the state flag. I get it.)

Hopefully, discussing
this case will result in clearing up some misunderstandings amongst races. I didn't know all the Rebel flag meant was the person thinks they are tough!!

Most Black people view the Rebel flag as a symbol equal to a swastika or a Ku Klux Klan hood. They tell us this person does not like Black people.

If I am wrong, please enlighten me so I can stop taking offense when I see any of those things.

Allow me to clarify for you, that sagging pants and grills are not intended to scare people of any race. They do not symbolize that the wearer is a tough guy, has a criminal record, hates White people or that they intend to do you harm when they see you. Now, there are some people who think they are tough guys that wear this fashion, but the same can be said for people sporting boots and cowboy hats.

They are simply...the style that a lot of the hip hop community wears these days. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I can't believe he HOA is now a target. Just unbelievable the lengths people go to for revenge. Has it even been established that he was acting as a neighborhood watch person that night?

No one has gone after the HOA.

All those who support Trayvon simply want justice. They want the truth rather than lies, information instead of obfuscation, equal justice instead of no justice at all.

I am proud to say that I support them in their quest.