17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[Steft50]

On an OT concerning guns and how to get them, one of the news stories on my local news tonight is how 3 middle school kids were arrested today for unlawfully carrying a weapon and unlawful possession of weapon on school grounds and illegal possession of a handgun by a juvenile as well as interference with staff.
all of this after an unloaded handgun was found in a school locker. cspd says they were trying to sell the gun.
all are in juvenile lockup tonight. they are automatically suspended...and now face possible expulsion.


Sorry Mods...but talking about guns and someone mentioned how easy they are to get in Florida....almost as easy here in CO...how do 3 middle school kids get a gun?

 

[LolaMoon08]

They would do absolutly nothing when a boy is missing?:waitasec:
He was talking to her -phone went dead - cant reach him at all.

I really don't think a 15-year-old girl not being able to get a hold of her 17-year-old boyfriend would classify as Trayvon "missing?" Not to the Miami Police Department anyways! They actually might even think the young girl was some crazed stalker coming all the way down to the PD to report that her boyfriend won't pick up the phone?

MOO

 

[Boytwnmom]

that after GZ killed Trayvon, when he was on top of him that he was checking for weapons and stolen property that he was planning to present as part of his criminal capture to police. He stopped this robber-maybe he was even thinking of the guy in FL I think who shot the guys who broke into his neighbors garage and got off. GZ knew Trayvon was a robber and so if he needed to shoot him as part of the capture, oh well.

But...when Trayvon didn't have anything but Skittles and Iced Tea, then he had to come up with a new story. Was that when witnesses saw him walking around muttering about what happened. Then he knew he had better have another reason to have shot Trayvon so the new and revised story is that Trayvon viciously attacked him, out of nowhere, he wasn't even following Trayvon (now that he knew he was wrong about the robber part) no, he was following orders, going to his car and this crazed black teen just attacked him out of nowhere, trying to KILL him! Yes, his life was slipping away when he managed to save himself by killing Trayvon. The only problem with that version is the lack of any injuries that would lend it credibility so we are left with GZ's word...hmmm, what is that worth??? A lot to Sanford PD who assumed Trayvon was likely SOME kind of criminal, after all, he attacked local hero GZ for NO reason at all, out of no where!!!

 

[Karmady]

jjenny, I had to remove the blog link but please read my 2nd post above.

You are missing a very, very important part here. The evidentiary hearing is everything to GZ. If the judge finds during the evidentiary hearing that GZ met the burden of proof in that hearing, there will be no trial. Game over.

All I know to tell you for sure is that it is an affirmative defense. The rules are different.

I'm done trying to explain it. Maybe gitana or AZ can help clarify better than I have been able to.

I hope they see this and respond. I think jjenny is saying that if the case gets past the prelim. the statute itself shifts the burden to the prosecutor of what would otherwise be the defendant's burden of showing self-defense. gitana/az?????

 

[Boytwnmom]

they're dealing with in terms of crime? And, what, they stop everything to deal with a 15 yr old who can't reach her boyfriend. Oh, and she isn't sure where he is or who he's staying with...I don't think they'd even be polite when they were showing her the door.

I really don't think a 15-year-old girl not being able to get a hold of her 17-year-old boyfriend would classify as Trayvon "missing?" Not to the Miami Police Department anyways! They actually might even think the young girl was some crazed stalker coming all the way down to the PD to report that her boyfriend won't pick up the phone?

MOO

 

[mercuriod]

Thank you,
That is what I was wondering. Just didn't know the right way to ask.

I haven't ever purchased a gun myself. And I assumed to have a concealed carry you have to be authorized in someway.

Yes you do have to meet qualifications to have a concealed to carry license in Florida, here are 2 websites to help you understand the qualifications:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/cw_license_eligibility_requirements_web.pdf

and you must have acceptable training:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/acceptable_training_documentation.html

I went through the law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement to get mine.

Also here is a questionnaire that will help determine if you are eligible

http://app1.licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/prequal_questions.aspx

 

[LolaMoon08]

they're dealing with in terms of crime? And, what, they stop everything to deal with a 15 yr old who can't reach her boyfriend. Oh, and she isn't sure where he is or who he's staying with...I don't think they'd even be polite when they were showing her the door.

They might have even Baker Act'd her!

 

[Yoda]

jjenny, I had to remove the blog link but please read my 2nd post above.

You are missing a very, very important part here. The evidentiary hearing is everything to GZ. If the judge finds during the evidentiary hearing that GZ met the burden of proof in that hearing, there will be no trial. Game over.

All I know to tell you for sure is that it is an affirmative defense. The rules are different.

I'm done trying to explain it. Maybe gitana or AZ can help clarify better than I have been able to.

Just wanted to say thanks. The insanity comparison clarified it for me. I didn't understand before why it became GZ's responsibility to prove self defense.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just wanted to say thanks. The insanity comparison clarified it for me. I didn't understand before why it became GZ's responsibility to prove self defense.

Hey Yoda!!

 

[RANCH]

Times have changed since you were 17, teenagers have changed since you were 17, they have been exposed (via media) to so much more than you could have even imagined when you were 17. For better or worse they are more "calloused" than you were at 17, they have seen and been exposed to so much more of the world than you even knew existed when you were 17.

I'm curious by what you mean by 17 year old teenagers are "calloused"? Do you mean less caring about other peoples well being? Have times really changed to the degree that a 17yr old girl would not be concerned about the welfare of a boyfriend? I hope not.

 

[Adrienne37]

I hadn't seen him before. What a nice guy. He seems very sweet and well spoken. Everyone in that family seems kind of...gentle or something. They seem like sweet people. It was so sad listening to him talk about Trayvon wanting to go to college their horse back riding trip for their Mom's birthday. I didn't realize it was just 8 days before he died that they went on that trip.

Very eloquent and well spoken young man. Sybrina has done a phenomenal job raising her 2 boys.

I didn't realize the pictures of Trayvon on the horse were just 8 short days before he was murdered until I had read that by Jahvaris. It made me feel so sad but I'm glad they have good memories of Trayvon enjoying himself and having a great time.


ETA - I wasn't implying that Tracy Martin has been anything less than a wonderful father but I couldn't figure out how to include him in my statement since I know that he is not Jahvaris' father although from watching the behavior between the 2 over the last few days, I would say that they care for each other very much.

~jmo~

 

[mercuriod]

In that history he was Trayvons age about 17-18


I really don’t believe he would carry and initiate a fight too.
That would put him in a position to have a mess on his hands.

I always say if you carry you may need to use it.
If you don’t carry you won’t ever find need to use it.
JMO – but I do not like guns.

No he was not Trayvon's age in that history, he was between the ages of 21 and 25.

 

[songline]

First, I want to say I appreciate how you stay in the house and polite and cool even at times when the anti-Zimmerman folk out number those who believe him. That's why I love you! But yes, I do think he put his hands on Trayvon first. I think he was pumped and not thinking of the consequences. Which is why he left his vehicle contrary to dispatcher instructions/suggestions and why he followed some guy at night, who he assumed was a criminal, instead of waiting for LE.

Thank you :blushing:
I am holding my Ground: as you know I always do

I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. NO. I am not saying that Trayvon is innocent. No
I see a heavily tipped public opinion with many missing parts to a puzzle.
I do believe that because Al Sharpton and all the heavy’s came in it tipped the case to become a racial case.
The public opinion has been tainted by media and whatever else.
A middle ground may sway the scales of balance.
IMO it is a case of sloppy police work. EVEN if GZ claimed self defense it has to be thoroughly investigated and they
dropped the ball. While Trayvon’s parents deserve answers and I am glad a case is at hand.
I believe that Zimmerman was turned into a victim too. Is it aggravated assault, manslaughter possibly.
I am sure there are reasons she gave murder 2 and I can read into some of those. But will set it aside.
What I hope to see is that Zimmerman does get a fair trial. He will go to jail but not life. ONE IS living and I do not want
blood on my hands. One is sadly gone, and all we can give the dead is the TRUTH.
But the know it all KNOW with missing parts to a puzzle and is not fair for the public at large not to read another view.
JUSTICE IS IMPRTANT - VENGENCE IS AN ILLNESS.

 

[octobermoon]

Yes you do have to meet qualifications to have a concealed to carry license in Florida, here are 2 websites to help you understand the qualifications:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/cw_license_eligibility_requirements_web.pdf

and you must have acceptable training:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/acceptable_training_documentation.html

I went through the law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement to get mine.

Also here is a questionnaire that will help determine if you are eligible

http://app1.licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/prequal_questions.aspx

Thank you

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm curious by what you mean by 17 year old teenagers are "calloused"? Do you mean less caring about other peoples well being? Have times really changed to the degree that a 17yr old girl would not be concerned about the welfare of a boyfriend? I hope not.

When she went down to the Miami Police Department... what was she going to say? Sure she could have told them that she was talking to her boyfriend and someone was following him when his phone went dead and she tried to call back but he won't answer.

Does she know Trayvon's fathers name? Does she know Trayvon's soon-to-be step-mother's name? Does she know what apartment complex he is staying at? Does she even know the actual city he is in? What about Trayvon's mothers name? What is her phone number? Why haven't you contacted her? Does she know her son is missing?

Plus... it's not their juristiction. There is nothing that they could have done for her.

 

[Karmady]

I'm reading something right now that says that the burden at trial is on the prosecution to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm trying to find the case law that's the basis of the discussion :::no life::: lol

 

[Adrienne37]

that after GZ killed Trayvon, when he was on top of him that he was checking for weapons and stolen property that he was planning to present as part of his criminal capture to police. He stopped this robber-maybe he was even thinking of the guy in FL I think who shot the guys who broke into his neighbors garage and got off. GZ knew Trayvon was a robber and so if he needed to shoot him as part of the capture, oh well.

But...when Trayvon didn't have anything but Skittles and Iced Tea, then he had to come up with a new story. Was that when witnesses saw him walking around muttering about what happened. Then he knew he had better have another reason to have shot Trayvon so the new and revised story is that Trayvon viciously attacked him, out of nowhere, he wasn't even following Trayvon (now that he knew he was wrong about the robber part) no, he was following orders, going to his car and this crazed black teen just attacked him out of nowhere, trying to KILL him! Yes, his life was slipping away when he managed to save himself by killing Trayvon. The only problem with that version is the lack of any injuries that would lend it credibility so we are left with GZ's word...hmmm, what is that worth??? A lot to Sanford PD who assumed Trayvon was likely SOME kind of criminal, after all, he attacked local hero GZ for NO reason at all, out of no where!!!

Perfect scenario and yes, I agree 100%.



~jmo~

 

[AngelWings444]

I'll do the best I can. You can't say another persons words. In a court proceeding the person does not have direct knowledge of the facts asserted, but knows it from being told. Things like gossip and rumors. However as you can see there are a lot of exceptions and definitions.

I know what hearsay is in general. But, the hearsay exceptions when someone dies is or can be different, right?

 

[mercuriod]

They would do absolutly nothing when a boy is missing?:waitasec:
He was talking to her -phone went dead - cant reach him at all.

No they wouldn't she was not his legal guardian, she can not report him as a missing person. They would actually assume that she and her boyfriend got in an argument and he just wasn't answering her calls. Can you imagine the backlog if the police went to investigate every time a teenage girl complained that her boyfriend didn't answer her phone call? Lets use some common sense here.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm reading something right now that says that the burden at trial is on the prosecution to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm trying to find the case law that's the basis of the discussion :::no life::: lol

:floorlaugh: Welcome to Websleuths!! :floorlaugh: We are your life now! Trust me!! I was sucked in all the way back in 2008!