2008.01.08 Court Hearings Discussion

[Gailey]

IIRC, Anna's daughter was appointed a guardian, not Anna's remains.

I've seen this comment/question twice now. To clarify SuziQ is correct, but Judge Seidlin awarded the remains to the baby as next of kin and that is why the Guardian Ad Litem was so prominent in organising ANS's funeral. He was acting on behalf of Dannilynn.

 

[Bev]

In a capital murder case, ALL hearings should be considered important, I can't tell you what Baez is thinking with this, unless he's trying to take advantage of every opportunity to set up an appeal, but that is just speculation.

In my opinion, Baez has made some really smart moves and some really dumb moves - just like all attorneys do. I don't think he really has the control over KC that some people think he has - if he had, I think he would have tried to plea her out.

 

[Chilly Willy]

In a capital murder case, ALL hearings should be considered important, I can't tell you what Baez is thinking with this, unless he's trying to take advantage of every opportunity to set up an appeal, but that is just speculation.

In my opinion, Baez has made some really smart moves and some really dumb moves - just like all attorneys do. I don't think he really has the control over KC that some people think he has - if he had, I think he would have tried to plea her out.

I wonder if he did try and she refused. It seems to me that's her best option.

Do you think it's possible that Baez is pushing to go to trial because he wants the media attention?

 

[SillyNilly]

Thank you, Nomore. Let me add, that it isn't what the statute states, it is HOW that statute is interpreted by the court that is important.

I understand why some people think this was not a critical hearing, but of all the hearings held so far, this was indeed the most critical and the motion filed by the state to withhold evidence from the defense by placing restrictions on that evidence was incredibly stupid and would without a doubt be a reversable error in appeals court. The Supreme court has ruled time and again that to withhold evidence is a violation of the U.S. constitution's 6th amd. confrontation clause.

The State was not seeking to withhold evidence, they wanted the evidence that was going to be produced to be protected so it couldn't get into the hands of someone who would put skeletal photos of Caylee on the internet or the National Enquirer. Secondly, the judge would never allow the State to withhold evidence. It's the judge's job to make sure there are no grounds for appeal later down the road. Strickland is doing his job, and doing it very well, IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wow...I didn't know the accused murderer had a right to do that over the rights of an innocent victim (Caylee) even if they are related. Like LinasK said what about a guardian ad litem?

GAL's are for the living

 

[gibby207]

I wonder if he did try and she refused. It seems to me that's her best option.

Do you think it's possible that Baez is pushing to go to trial because he wants the media attention?

It was said somewhere, sometime, that they didn't want her demeanor shown to public. I think JB did try to have her come and she refused, as well as refused at the last minute, which is why JB looked like a tard. As far as justice is concerned, SA wanted to make sure that her rights were KNOWN so there wasn't any coming back and saying I wasn't there bidness, ala reversal. Yes, I got that info from NG attorneys, but the attorneys are highly respected IMO. They basically said it was a good move on SA/judge and bad on JB for not signing the wavier in time.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I thought he said he was given the legal responsibility for the remains, then he continued to ramble on about the photos and how he did not want the disseminated to just anyone.

No, it isn't a conflict of interest. KC can appoint anyone she wants to take care of her affairs.

Personally I am glad the A's are not going to be responsible for it. JB, being an officer of the court and not willing to stick his neck out too far to get sanctions, will make sure the Callee is honored respectfully.

respectfully? She went from a garbage bag to a cardboard box. Been in the box for NO GOOD REASON since before Christmas when the second autopsy was completed.

 

[Bev]

I don't know, Chilly. I don't think it occurred to her that the body would be found, since it hadn't been after all these months, plus, she has stuck to this story like glue from the very beginning. I do think that Baez may have tried to convince her to plea - his best bet would have been a plea in exchange for the recovery of the body. This is costing his firm an incredible amount of money and with credit dried up as it is, how is he going to financially maintain this case?

p.s. The state isn't seeking to withhold evidence, by placing restrictions on it, they in effect ARE withholding evidence. Very shortsighted.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Which means he will be paying for the funeral? SUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Guess he's still holding out hope for that 500k from Lifetime...or was that from shopping an interview with "his girl"?:waitasec:

Can't remember which....just can't forget hearing the 500 LARGE!

 

[amethyst221]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I appreciate it.

I have an additional question(s). If Casey were to use an instance where she wasn't present at a pre-trial hearing, no matter the significance, as grounds for an appeal, yet JB had, at the time of the hearing, insisted that Casey waived her rights to be present and she was relying on his representation of her to covey as much, and relying on him as her attorney to represent her without being present at any hearing, how much of a leg would she have to stand on? And if there is one, who would represent her, if JB is the one that claimed she waived her right to be present? Does she get an attorney appointed to her, in the event of an appeal, if she cannot afford one?

If Casey were convicted, she'd presumably have a new lawyer on appeal and would raise any legal errors committed at trial as grounds for reversing her conviction. It's true JB acts for her now, but she could later claim that although he told the court she understood and waived her right to come to the hearing, she had not done so.

The trial judge has to see that the law is followed and that her rights are protected at all times to avoid this very thing. The requirements of the statute have to be followed, first. JB apparently didn't do that today. He did not file a timely waiver. He just wanted to represent to the court that Casey had been informed of the proceeding and had waived her right to be there. Maybe this happened because JB planned for her to be there, but she simply refused (note the reference at the hearing that she wouldn't come out of her cell, or something like that). The judge therefore required that she come before him and make a knowing waiver in his presence, so she could not later deny having done so.

 

[JaneInOz]

I don't know, Chilly. I don't think it occurred to her that the body would be found, since it hadn't been after all these months, plus, she has stuck to this story like glue from the very beginning. I do think that Baez may have tried to convince her to plea - his best bet would have been a plea in exchange for the recovery of the body. This is costing his firm an incredible amount of money and with credit dried up as it is, how is he going to financially maintain this case?

p.s. The state isn't seeking to withhold evidence, by placing restrictions on it, they in effect ARE withholding evidence. Very shortsighted.

So I take it that he can not do any other cases when doing this Case ?
So exactly how does he live ? is he living off his savings ? or are people donating to him ? or are the Anthonys paying him ?

I agree with your PS that is what I thought. Why be difficult. If they are confident in their case then proceed without delays and undue difficulties place on the defense

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't know, Chilly. I don't think it occurred to her that the body would be found, since it hadn't been after all these months, plus, she has stuck to this story like glue from the very beginning. I do think that Baez may have tried to convince her to plea - his best bet would have been a plea in exchange for the recovery of the body. This is costing his firm an incredible amount of money and with credit dried up as it is, how is he going to financially maintain this case?

p.s. The state isn't seeking to withhold evidence, by placing restrictions on it, they in effect ARE withholding evidence. Very shortsighted.

Even with the discovery of the body I think the state would be willing to deal. Not only is the case costing the defense a fortune, it's also costing a fortune to prosecute. Rumors are that Baez has been paid $200k from the sale of pictures and videos of Caylee to ABC. Of course that's not even a drop in the bucket compared to what the final tally will be, but maybe he has some other ideas up his sleeve? Can't he have Casey declared a hardship case and get money from the state/county for her defense and the experts, like Geragos did in the Scott Peterson case?

One final question....darn, forgot what it was.

Oh, I remember now. I've seen quite a few posts saying that it would be in the best interests of Baez if he just walked away from this case, but he's not allowed to do that is he? Even if he's not being paid?

Your ps is very clear to me.

 

[Gailey]

You would not believe how much rights a convicted person has while in jail. In my state, a murder still retains legal custodial rights to their child. They give by way of the courts, physical custody to another, but they retain legal custody.

So true. In Mississippi a woman on death row who murdered her husband gets to see her young children once a month

 

[Bev]

I agree Jane. We could speculate that by withholding this evidence they might be afraid of the high powered "experts" Baez has assembled - I'm not saying that they are, but it could be interpreted that way. They may be trying to run him out of money or they may be perfectly sincere - it just is not a very smart move no matter what the reason may be.

I'd love to know where Baez is getting his money for this case - this is going to be a multi million dollar defense.

ad txt - Chilly, I don't think at this point Baez could walk away - the judge might just appoint him to it, if he did. I do know that he will receive funds from the state to try the case and he will be paid a fee to defend her, but I am dying to know how he is funding this now.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This is costing his firm an incredible amount of money and with credit dried up as it is, how is he going to financially maintain this case?

I guess you missed the part where it was pointed out that a 3rd party is paying for Casey's defense team. Dr. Baden's wife clearly stated no one was working Pro Bono and they all signed a non-disclosure agreement as to who was actually paying them. (The interview was on Geraldo while she was standing in the street at the dump site while they were complaining about not being allowed to observe so the date would have been around Dec. 11.)

This was also done when LP was called into the case initially by a 3rd party and asked to come to Orlando to bail Casey out the first time. He also had to sign an agreement.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I guess you missed the part where it was pointed out that a 3rd party is paying for Casey's defense team. Dr. Baden's wife clearly stated no one was working Pro Bono and they all signed a non-disclosure agreement as to who was actually paying them. (The interview was on Geraldo while she was standing in the street at the dump site while they were complaining about not being allowed to observe so the date would have been around Dec. 11.)

This was also done when LP was called into the case initially by a 3rd party and asked to come to Orlando to bail Casey out the first time. He also had to sign an agreement.

The same thing was discussed on LKL on Dec 19th:

KING: Jane, how is the mother able to obtain this high defense team -- this high profile defense team?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is a mystery, although some reports coming out of Florida are that there is a trust fund that is being funded by anonymous people. And it's really tantalizing.

Who would want to pay for Casey Anthony's defense?

And that person or persons would probably have to have a lot of money, because when you're talking Dr. Henry Lee and Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky and Linda Kenney Baden, the famous attorney who was in the Phil Specter case and many, many other experts and tests of cars, etc....

KING: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...you're talking about a lot of dough.
........
KING: Dr. Kobilinsky, who is paying for this high profile defense team?

KOBILINSKY: I -- I -- first of all, I don't know, Larry. And, secondly, if I knew, I probably wouldn't be at liberty to say so.

KING: Dr. Reichs, do you know or care to say so?

REICHS: We -- when they retained our services, there is a clause in that contract about nondisclosure and confidentiality. So if I did know about the other participants in the team, I wouldn't be at liberty to say.

KING: But you are...

REICHS: I know I can't...

KING: You are being paid by...

REICHS: I can squelch...

KING: ...the lawyers, right?

REICHS: I can squelch some of the rumors pertaining to where the money has come from.

KING: All right. Squelch them.

REICHS: Well, there is a rumor that's been said back to me by the media that I've signed a book deal and that the money is somehow going to go to the Anthony family to pay for this defense team. And I can unequivocally say that's absolutely untrue. I've never been approached about it.

I'm very busy writing my Temperance Brennan novels and producing the show. And I wouldn't have time, if I did have the inclination.

And, also, I would be constrained by a confidentiality and nondisclosure with regard to what's going on in the case.

KING: Got you.

REICHS: So that's definitely...

KING: Larry...

REICHS: ...not where the money is coming from.


http://www.westwoodone.com/pg/jsp/l...id=F03F173D429505C52EA81978E1CAC427?pid=25106

 

[HeSaidSheSaid]

I wonder if he did try and she refused. It seems to me that's her best option.

Do you think it's possible that Baez is pushing to go to trial because he wants the media attention?

My guess is that if JB did propose a plea bargain, she most definitely refused, not because she didn't "do the crime" but because she will never admit to killing her own baby/covering up the baby's death and will certainly not admit that she lied from the beginning to Mom and Dad that she's responsible for her daughter's/their granddaughter's death. She is the epitomy of arrested development. She's not a woman, she's a child.

As for JB wanting media attention, I think that JB is media *advertiser censored*, not for Casey and the case against her, but for himself. He makes Casey look modest, and that's pretty hard to do. I can't imagine how media attention would help him, but I never underestimate the misguided, attention seeking, so called do-gooder. I'm not a big JB fan, if you couldn't already tell.

 

[RR0004]

(a) Presence of Defendant. In all prosecutions for crime the defendant shall be present:
(1) at first appearance;
(2) when a plea is made, unless a written plea of not guilty shall be made in writing under the provisions of rule
3.170(a);
(3) at any pretrial conference, unless waived by the defendant in writing;
(4) at the beginning of the trial during the examination, challenging, impanelling, and swearing of the jury;
(5) at all proceedings before the court when the jury is present;
(6) when evidence is addressed to the court out of the presence of the jury for the purpose of laying the
foundation for the introduction of evidence before the jury;
(7) at any view by the jury;
(8) at the rendition of the verdict; and
(9) at the pronouncement of judgment and the imposition of sentence.
(b) Presence; Definition. A defendant is present for purposes of this rule if the defendant is physically in
attendance for the courtroom proceeding, and has a meaningful opportunity to be heard through counsel on the
issues being discussed.
(c) Defendant Absenting Self.


http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResources.nsf/Attachments/BDFE1551AD291A3F85256B29004BF892/$FILE/CRIMRules.pdf?OpenElement

Page 54- great link by the way for anyone that likes to reference Fl criminal procedures.

So it was a very smart move then in lieu of having anything in writing...which is what JB forgot to get...the judge ordered her to appear.

 

[DotsEyes]

My post disappeared.

 

[DotsEyes]

I don't see where she was required to attend today's hearings in that statute.