4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #93

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion #2

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[MadMcGoo]

Continue the discussion here.

 

[maskedwoman]

IMO this is a game changer. Presumably, BK will claim he was in an area with no service during the murders, which would account for his phone not reporting to the network.
Being out of range vs switched off has very different implications in terms of what the phone can record or not.
Specifically, even if out of range or in airplane mode, things like the gyroscope and accelerometer will still continue to record. However of the phone is switched off, those two cease to function until the phone is switched back on.
If an analysis of the phone data shows no gyroscope or accelerometer activity during the murders, then his alibi falls apart, since that would tell us he switched off the phone.
But if the gyro and accelerometer still show movement consistent with driving during those hours, then his alibi would be confirmed.

Thank goodness for the quote feature. The other thread closed while I researched and wrote all this. LOL

I agree with the technical portion of what you said about the cell phone, but I don't see it as a game change or an alibi IMO. I am not a nerd, although I dearly love nerdy stuff. I guess that means I speak conversational rather than fluent nerd LOL. But wouldn't the phone gyroscope, etc., simply confirm that he had the phone with him, that it was not receiving/accepting service for some reason, and that he was in some form of motion? He could have been anywhere.

Page 13 of the PCA stated his phone was on when he left home that morning and it stopped reporting to the network at 2:47am, suggesting pretty clearly that he left home and THEN turned it off. If he was just going to a park to stargaze in the ice fog, why turn it off or put it in airplane mode after leaving home?

The PCA also says the phone didn't report again until almost 5am, near Blaine ID, which is 20 minutes south and slightly east of Moscow ID. So, he left home at 2:45-ish, drove 25 minutes to Wawawai Park, and by 5:00 was in Blaine, which is another 40 minutes way. That only leaves him an hour to stargaze in the ice fog. Actually, from a literal standpoint, he could have driven to the park and still been at King Road by 4am to commit murder and in Blaine by 5. But I disgress. If he could make it from home to the park and then on to Blaine, why turn his phone back on in Blaine? Is the defense going to suggest he knew his way around well enough to make it to the park and to Blaine without any guidance, but could not get from Blaine back home again? That last leg was pretty straightforward compared to the other drives.

Plus, it seems rather odd for a member generation that can't eat a meal without their phone, as well as unsafe to habitually drive around in the middle of the night with your phone out of service. I have also wondered, with the cost of gas so high, how a starving graduate student could afford to routinely be driving aimlessly around during the night. He didn't have another job so he was dependent on his stipend. I would expect him to have to watch almost every penny. Driving around is a pretty expensive way of passing the time. MOOooo

 

[Dotta]

Re the alibi

I actually feel embarassed that the public and others seem to be treated like idiots with this ridiculous alibi about "watching moon and stars"

I feel sorry for the victims' families that they have to go through all this.

JMO

 

[Swansee]

@maskedwoman
All IMO of course:

The point is, up to now we don't know why the phone stopped reporting to the network during that timeframe of the murders. Was if switched off, or out of range?

The presence or absence of data from gyro/accelerometer will show which of those is correct.

If that data exists at all, then the phone was out of range, and not switched off. If he was in the King road neighborhood, the phone would not be out of range. If there's no data, the phone was switched off.

Moreover, if the accelerometer data exists and shows the phone was moving at car speed throughout the whole time it's not reporting to the network, then this alone would be enough to prove he really was driving around and couldn't have been in the house murdering four people.

If however, both sets of data are absent, then the phone was switched off, which could be consistent with him being at the King road house.
IMO, that's why this data is so key.

(After brief research, I have left out airplane mode from this post, because it isn't clear to me whether or not such data is still recorded when a plane is in airplane mode. I think it is, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe someone else can check, or I'll look into it later)

 

[Chloegirl]

Ultimately, I am tired of watching defendants make a mockery out of our system. This is a serious case, four people were murdered. It's disingenuous at the least to offer vagaries this far after his arrest. And if you want to be considered innocent, wouldn't you do some driving around to confuse the data. It's insulting to the families and all of our intelligences at this point. It is a non-alibi. JMOO

 

[ag513]

@maskedwoman
All IMO of course:

The point is, up to now we don't know why the phone stopped reporting to the network during that timeframe of the murders. Was if switched off, or out of range?

The presence or absence of data from gyro/accelerometer will show which of those is correct.

If that data exists at all, then the phone was out of range, and not switched off. If he was in the King road neighborhood, the phone would not be out of range. If there's no data, the phone was switched off.

Moreover, if the accelerometer data exists and shows the phone was moving at car speed throughout the whole time it's not reporting to the network, then this alone would be enough to prove he really was driving around and couldn't have been in the house murdering four people.

If however, both sets of data are absent, then the phone was switched off, which could be consistent with him being at the King road house.
IMO, that's why this data is so key.

(After brief research, I have left out airplane mode from this post, because it isn't clear to me whether or not such data is still recorded when a plane is in airplane mode. I think it is, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe someone else can check, or I'll look into it later)

I did a quick Google search and found this on the McAfee website, an online security company. There's a full article/FAQ about when a cell phone can and cannot be tracked, but here is the most relevant point in response to your post:

"Can a phone be tracked when it’s in airplane mode?​

Yes, your phone can be tracked when it’s in airplane mode. While it does turn off Wi-Fi and cellular services, airplane mode doesn’t turn off GPS (a different technology that sends and receives signals from GPS satellites). You’ll have to disable GPS on your device and turn on airplane mode to prevent your phone from being tracked."


With regard to whether the gyro/accelerometer data is recorded in airplane mode, this website for a fitness app called StepsApp says that it is: "Steps are also counted in flight mode, so you can record your activity despite the low battery."

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Thank goodness for the quote feature. The other thread closed while I researched and wrote all this. LOL

I agree with the technical portion of what you said about the cell phone, but I don't see it as a game change or an alibi IMO. I am not a nerd, although I dearly love nerdy stuff. I guess that means I speak conversational rather than fluent nerd LOL. But wouldn't the phone gyroscope, etc., simply confirm that he had the phone with him, that it was not receiving/accepting service for some reason, and that he was in some form of motion? He could have been anywhere.

Page 13 of the PCA stated his phone was on when he left home that morning and it stopped reporting to the network at 2:47am, suggesting pretty clearly that he left home and THEN turned it off. If he was just going to a park to stargaze in the ice fog, why turn it off or put it in airplane mode after leaving home?

The PCA also says the phone didn't report again until almost 5am, near Blaine ID, which is 20 minutes south and slightly east of Moscow ID. So, he left home at 2:45-ish, drove 25 minutes to Wawawai Park, and by 5:00 was in Blaine, which is another 40 minutes way. That only leaves him an hour to stargaze in the ice fog. Actually, from a literal standpoint, he could have driven to the park and still been at King Road by 4am to commit murder and in Blaine by 5. But I disgress. If he could make it from home to the park and then on to Blaine, why turn his phone back on in Blaine? Is the defense going to suggest he knew his way around well enough to make it to the park and to Blaine without any guidance, but could not get from Blaine back home again? That last leg was pretty straightforward compared to the other drives.

Plus, it seems rather odd for a member generation that can't eat a meal without their phone, as well as unsafe to habitually drive around in the middle of the night with your phone out of service. I have also wondered, with the cost of gas so high, how a starving graduate student could afford to routinely be driving aimlessly around during the night. He didn't have another job so he was dependent on his stipend. I would expect him to have to watch almost every penny. Driving around is a pretty expensive way of passing the time. MOOooo

In conclusion:

The Defense, without alternative, has confused 'alibi' with 'evidence'.

Their 'alibi' gels with the movements of their client, solidifying his guilt.

No one else needed those machinations.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

'Is his name out there?' Authorities search unsolved cases for links to Idaho murder suspect

Authorities in at least two Pennsylvania counties where Bryan Kohberger went to college have made no connection to cold cases.

www.king5.com

To me, this is excuse making. But if it's going to be brought up again about him being at parks late at night possibly locked behind gates, let it be brought up by me. I will go ahead and scoff now.

I particularly like the comment about him being manipulative at the end of the article. Again, defying logic, his Moon & Stars alibi becomes official 67 weeks after his arrest. JMOO

 

[minazoe]

it wouldn't surprise me if he did something with his phone intentionally..this is not an alibi nor is "out driving around" as we already know he was out "driving around". right? They will find out what really was happening with Brian's phone. We already know that many SK's like to creep around in the wee hours. so true to character. mOO

 

[x_files]

Re the alibi

I actually feel embarassed that the public and others seem to be treated like idiots with this ridiculous alibi about "watching moon and stars"

I feel sorry for the victims' families that they have to go through all this.

JMO

All it proves he left his phone at another location or was turned off it doesn't;t prove or provide a real albi, surprised his attorney turned this in.

 

[x_files]

Ultimately, I am tired of watching defendants make a mockery out of our system. This is a serious case, four people were murdered. It's disingenuous at the least to offer vagaries this far after his arrest. And if you want to be considered innocent, wouldn't you do some driving around to confuse the data. It's insulting to the families and all of our intelligences at this point. It is a non-alibi. JMOO

all it takes is one jury member not to fully grasp how GPS tracking on cellphones work and create doubt. That worries me.

 

[maskedwoman]

all it takes is one jury member not to fully grasp how GPS tracking on cellphones work and create doubt. That worries me.

That would worry me as well, if it was up to the jury to figure it out for themselves. I'm confident the prosecution's witness will explain this issue to them as if they were the proverbial 5 year old.

 

[x_files]

That would worry me as well, if it was up to the jury to figure it out for themselves. I'm confident the prosecution's witness will explain this issue to them as if they were the proverbial 5 year old.

I hope so, because many people do not fully understand how it works, and this albi was created knowing people won't understand.

 

[Justice101]

The to-be-continued alibi just keeps getting more and more ridiculous and even less believable.

.

 

[jepop]

@maskedwoman
All IMO of course:

The point is, up to now we don't know why the phone stopped reporting to the network during that timeframe of the murders. Was if switched off, or out of range?

The presence or absence of data from gyro/accelerometer will show which of those is correct.

If that data exists at all, then the phone was out of range, and not switched off. If he was in the King road neighborhood, the phone would not be out of range. If there's no data, the phone was switched off.

Moreover, if the accelerometer data exists and shows the phone was moving at car speed throughout the whole time it's not reporting to the network, then this alone would be enough to prove he really was driving around and couldn't have been in the house murdering four people.

If however, both sets of data are absent, then the phone was switched off, which could be consistent with him being at the King road house.
IMO, that's why this data is so key.

(After brief research, I have left out airplane mode from this post, because it isn't clear to me whether or not such data is still recorded when a plane is in airplane mode. I think it is, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe someone else can check, or I'll look into it later)

RBBM
The point is, up to now we don't know why the phone stopped reporting to the network during that timeframe of the murders. Was if switched off, or out of range?

We do know where and when his phone stopped reporting to the network: 2.47.am in Pullman. It continued not to report to the network until approx 4.48am when it began pinging near Blaine. Not sure of the logic, but is the idea that

(1) D might be able to prove via expert that he switched off the phone in Pullman at 2.47am (because Pullman has network coverage phone was not out of range), drove to this park where there is no coverage, switched the phone back on anyway and kept it on with no coverage, then at the appropriate time left that area so as to be near Blaine at 4.48am when his phone once again begins reporting to the network?

Or maybe

(2) the idea is that the D will try to use their expert to suggest BK was at this park at 2.47am, not Pullman, and he lost coverage there? And, I guess, the logic would have to be be ditto for phone not being near Blaine at 4.48am when it suddenly connected again? Maybe the expert will say phone was...well IDK where supposedly at 4.48am but if Pullman which has coverage is wrong for 2.47am then Blaine is probably wrong too for 4.48am? So in this scenario the idea would be that this expert is expected to discredit the cast info re location at the relevant times but not timing ?

I've always thought that since the PCA and the actual forensic analysis of Bk's phone, both P and D know what occurred and where it occurred at both 2.47am and 4.48am. Imoo both sides know that the phone was switched off and on respectively, in Pullman and near Blaine respectively. There was no reason for the phone to lose coverage in Pullman. I think the forensic analysis of BK''s phone has already shown both sides what occured and losing coverage in Pullman at 2.47am is not what happenned. It's my personal understanding moo that if airplane mode was utilised for those two hours or the battery went flat then that will already be known via the completed forensic analysis..Imo (from other posters with knowledge) if BK only used airplane mode then gps will still function and related location info would also already be known for those two hours. Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

All it proves he left his phone at another location or was turned off it doesn't;t prove or provide a real albi, surprised his attorney turned this in.

So agree, proof are things like Single Source DNA matching BK 5 Octillion + times on a sheath left under a murder victim. That's PROOF. Not this measly 'I was out star watching' on a cold, foggy night for chits and giggles".

No, nope, and nopers BK. Not buying it and neither will a jury.

IMO

 

[layer]

all it takes is one jury member not to fully grasp how GPS tracking on cellphones work and create doubt. That worries me.

I would bet that not one member of the jury will fully grasp how GPS tracking on cellphones works; I sure don't. That is a vulnerability to the case for sure, because information that's misunderstood could be a landmine. I expect we'll all be a little better educated on it after this trial.

Meanwhile, I've been absent over here so I don't know if this has been posted already...

While digging around the Delphi case, I came across an amazing document on geotracking, tower dumps, provider retention times, etc. It's probably even more useful in this case.

The document also explains how data requests from Mobile Virtual Network Operators (MVNOs) such as Boost Mobile are handled, explains how to obtain location data from what the FBI describes as “burner phones,” and how to obtain information from OnStar, General Motors’ in-vehicle system.

The document, a 139 page slide presentation dated 2019, is written by the FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST). Source
Here's the cover shot

 

[girlhasnoname]

all it takes is one jury member not to fully grasp how GPS tracking on cellphones work and create doubt. That worries me.

Nooo, that's exactly what the Defense it trying to do X. They will have a CAST expert explain it to them like they were 5 years old, and I mean that in a positive way. They did this in the recent Murdaugh case.

Jurors take their jobs very seriously I have found that out participating in them and seeing them live or on TV. A DP case will cause jurors to think even more judiciously. You'd have to ignore all the evidence (what little we even know at this point) to think BK is innocent. His 12 trips around the house previously, video of his car driving by 4 times the night and at the time of the murders.

He just like to hang out at his Mom and Dad's disposing of his trash in separate Ziploc baggies and sneaking off at 3 am to put them in a neighbors trash can. BK knew LE was trying to get a DNA sample from him, and I don't believe he had any intentions of going back WSU period.

BT and the State has got their man I have no doubt.

JMO

EBM: For clarity

 

[girlhasnoname]

I would bet that not one member of the jury will fully grasp how GPS tracking on cellphones works; I sure don't. That is a vulnerability to the case for sure, because information that's misunderstood could be a landmine. I expect we'll all be a little better educated on it after this trial.

Meanwhile, I've been absent over here so I don't know if this has been posted already...

While digging around the Delphi case, I came across an amazing document on geotracking, tower dumps, provider retention times, etc. It's probably even more useful in this case.

The document also explains how data requests from Mobile Virtual Network Operators (MVNOs) such as Boost Mobile are handled, explains how to obtain location data from what the FBI describes as “burner phones,” and how to obtain information from OnStar, General Motors’ in-vehicle system.

The document, a 139 page slide presentation dated 2019, is written by the FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST). Source
Here's the cover shot

Hah - I posted before I saw your post layer. No these CAST experts are, well experts. They can explain it like you're five years old. It just happened in the Murdaugh trial. They know they are dealing with average citizens not high tech wizards and they have a way of explaining it so that it makes common sense.

JMO