Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

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steeltowngirl said:
Defense states FG is denying their expert witness expenses. If I’m reading the rules correctly, allowable expenses are reimbursed, not paid in advance. That’s how it works for all public defenders. RA’s lawyers are not being singled out.

Are they following procedure and submitting to the appropriate decision-makers? Defense must fill out requests each quarter to receive reimbursement for eligible expenses. Page 11 discusses reimbursement for expert witnesses. Forms are submitted to the Commission and the 4th quarter 2023 meeting was only scheduled for yesterday.

2024 Reimbursement Request Due Dates & Commission Meeting Dates​

QuarterReimbursement Request Due DateCommission Meeting Date (when the reimbursements will be approved/denied)
4th 2023Wednesday, February 14Wednesday, March 27
1st 2024Wednesday, May 15Wednesday, June 12
2nd 2024Wednesday, August 14Wednesday, September 18
3rd 2024Thursday

Reimbursement Forms & Due Dates, Salary & Wage Requirements, Attorney Qualification Forms

www.in.gov www.in.gov
Click to expand...
Can we go over this? It's way out of my realm of expertise.
My understanding is this is info Carroll Co. needs to supply to the Indiana Public Defender Commission in order to be reimbursed part or all of the 40% they agree to pay back to Carroll Co (link for that below).
It seems to me that we need to see the agreement to pay between the D, the J and the Carroll Co. Council.

I'm basing my understanding on this part from your link; admittedly, I may be totally wrong about this.

"Items to gather:
1. Quarterly payments made by the Auditor to attorneys and staff, including salary, benefits, and all other compensation
2. Any other public defense expenses paid by the Auditor during the quarter
3. Quarterly caseload assignments for attorneys
4. Standard E and F Qualification Forms for attorneys or review the Non-Capital Attorney Qualification electronic database"

Then this on page 14 of your link:

"This sheet should list every attorney who works in your county and how much they were paid (if any) this quarter, with benefits listed separate from salary. The case type qualifications are also stored on this tab. It is essential to verify each case type and whether the attorney is qualified."

www.wthr.com

Will the Delphi double murder case cost Carroll County more than $2 million?

Richard Allen is charged with the 2017 double murders of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.
www.wthr.com www.wthr.com
 
layer said:
The more I learn about this crime, the more I think it was driven by some kind of bizarre fantasy. I would think the perp would have ample evidence of this sort of ideology on his devices. Since RA apparently kept every cell phone he ever used, I assume the same was true of his computers. Maybe seemingly harmless videos and photos of near-naked wood nymphs with horns or something like that.
Click to expand...
Appears to me this crime was driven by some bizarre Norse mythology “fantasy.” I concede, this may have been a “faked” Norse mythological fantasy but it sure was weird in the extreme. I believe BH’s FB page reveals a great deal of this sort of thing, was mimicked by EF and is part of the discovery, delivered oh so tardily by the P. See FM.

pdfhost.io

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN
pdfhost.io

If people can just ignore the FM, so be it. I will not, as I believe the totality of the evidence will tell us who was involved and it wasn’t one person alone IMO. I believe reasonable doubt can be established even without those early interviews. It’s ridiculous to even think it was possible that one person was responsible for all that was done given the weight of Libby. I know this from personal experience. Twice last year I had the experience of having to catch someone, a 110 lb friend that passed out and collapsed (first time). No problem catching her from behind and moving her to a safe position to call 911. The second time it was a loved one who was going down due to weakness/unsteadiness, 150 lbs, and it was very difficult. IF RA did this, he wasn’t alone, and if he wasn’t alone why don’t we know who else was there? Who does his phone evidence link him to? His computer activity? If he was NOT under duress when he confessed, why hasn’t he told his attorneys who else was involved? One would think he’d be happy to take a plea deal at this point and get it over with. He hasn’t.

Too many questions at the moment for me to convict him. Looking forward to seeing ALL the evidence very soon!

JMHO
 
A new motion

03/28/2024Order Issued
Ex parte communication received from "LGW" ordered copied and sent to counsel of record and the Clerk of Carroll Circuit Court.
Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles
Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph
Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony
Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR
Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn
Order Signed: 03/27/2024
 
FrostedGlass said:
A new motion

03/28/2024Order Issued
Ex parte communication received from "LGW" ordered copied and sent to counsel of record and the Clerk of Carroll Circuit Court.
Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles
Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph
Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony
Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR
Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn
Order Signed: 03/27/2024
Click to expand...
They've spelled her name wrong. A rocky start.
Point #1. Awesome preamble. (although a rocky start - has recovered completely)
Point # All the rest. Awesome points, awesome letter. What a great job bringing public perception to Gull's attention, without blaming/attacking her personally.
 
Last edited:
FrostedGlass said:
Can we go over this? It's way out of my realm of expertise.
My understanding is this is info Carroll Co. needs to supply to the Indiana Public Defender Commission in order to be reimbursed part or all of the 40% they agree to pay back to Carroll Co (link for that below).
It seems to me that we need to see the agreement to pay between the D, the J and the Carroll Co. Council.

I'm basing my understanding on this part from your link; admittedly, I may be totally wrong about this.

"Items to gather:
1. Quarterly payments made by the Auditor to attorneys and staff, including salary, benefits, and all other compensation
2. Any other public defense expenses paid by the Auditor during the quarter
3. Quarterly caseload assignments for attorneys
4. Standard E and F Qualification Forms for attorneys or review the Non-Capital Attorney Qualification electronic database"

Then this on page 14 of your link:

"This sheet should list every attorney who works in your county and how much they were paid (if any) this quarter, with benefits listed separate from salary. The case type qualifications are also stored on this tab. It is essential to verify each case type and whether the attorney is qualified."

www.wthr.com

Will the Delphi double murder case cost Carroll County more than $2 million?

Richard Allen is charged with the 2017 double murders of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.
www.wthr.com www.wthr.com
Click to expand...
Agree - we need to see more about who files what, and where. Out of my area entirely, but point being that I need more information about how the reimbursement process for public defenders works, before believing B&R have been denied by FG inappropriately.

There is a process - did they follow it? That’s what I’m curious about.

Instruction manual:
 
steeltowngirl said:
Agree - we need to see more about who files what, and where. Out of my area entirely, but point being that I need more information about how the reimbursement process for public defenders works, before believing B&R have been denied by FG inappropriately.

There is a process - did they follow it? That’s what I’m curious about.

Instruction manual:
Click to expand...
Before filling out the form, it is essential to collect all the information you will need to report to the Commission. If you have gathered all the necessary documents, this form should take less than one hour for most counties to complete and submit.

Most counties... Is this form for defense attorneys to get reimbursed or for counties to get reimbursed (for what they paid to defense counsel)?
 
layer said:
Before filling out the form, it is essential to collect all the information you will need to report to the Commission. If you have gathered all the necessary documents, this form should take less than one hour for most counties to complete and submit.

Most counties... Is this form for defense attorneys to get reimbursed or for counties to get reimbursed (for what they paid to defense counsel)?
Click to expand...
I think that is what FrostedGlass was asking too. Do defense attorneys submit to the County who then submit to the Commission, or how does it work?

Hopefully defense is following the correct process, prior to concluding that it is Gull’s fault if they are not reimbursed.
 
steeltowngirl said:
I think that is what FrostedGlass was asking too. Do defense attorneys submit to the County who then submit to the Commission, or how does it work?

Hopefully defense is following the correct process, prior to concluding that it is Gull’s fault if they are not reimbursed.
Click to expand...
I believe the process is what we see playing out - they submit funding requests to JG, who seems to like to deny a lot.
Someone with actual knowledge will probably come along shortly to straighten me out, I'm hoping. :)
 
steeltowngirl said:
I think that is what FrostedGlass was asking too. Do defense attorneys submit to the County who then submit to the Commission, or how does it work?

Hopefully defense is following the correct process, prior to concluding that it is Gull’s fault if they are not reimbursed.
Click to expand...
They aren’t and this is what I was saying about circumventing the process. Can’t wait til we have all the info!
 
FrostedGlass said:
What exactly is the process, then?
Click to expand...
Gull is Allen County, not Carroll County. It’s just curious. She’s denied quite of few of their motions, but if she didn’t have a hand in the reimbursement, it seems fair to try to set the record straight.

(c) The original trial court shall determine the amount of the fee and the expenses incurred by the pauper counsel and shall order the appropriate reimbursement to be paid to him by the county in which the prosecution originated.  The fees and expenses of a public defender appointed under IC 33-40-2 shall be paid in accordance with that chapter.

 
While we wait for trial, I plan to read up on SODDI defense. Appears to be the direction we will see at trial. Sharing a good writeup from Loyola University that I found, for any others here that would to get familiar, too. There are certainly other resources; hope folks will share, and would love to see some of the legal experts among us join in.

Regardless of which ‘side’ we are aligned with, this will be an interesting and educational trial.

 
Ravenmoon said:
Why undress them?

For gratification.

Maybe for photos?
Maybe to instruct them on exactly what he wanted them to do so that his fantasy would play out.

This was, no doubt, a sexually motivated crime IMO.
Click to expand...

Sounds like elements of CSAM to me.

What type of ritual would involved redressing a victim?
 
steeltowngirl said:
Gull is Allen County, not Carroll County. It’s just curious. She’s denied quite of few of their motions, but if she didn’t have a hand in the reimbursement, it seems fair to try to set the record straight.

(c) The original trial court shall determine the amount of the fee and the expenses incurred by the pauper counsel and shall order the appropriate reimbursement to be paid to him by the county in which the prosecution originated.  The fees and expenses of a public defender appointed under IC 33-40-2 shall be paid in accordance with that chapter.

Click to expand...
She has a hand in it somewhere.
This sounds like that as soon as the judge approves them, Carroll Co. pays them.

MOTION FOR PARITY IN RESOURCES, TO RECONSIDER THE DENIAL OF
ANTICIPATED DEFENSE COSTS, OR TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE

Motion for Parity in Resources, To Reconsider the Denial of Anticipated Defense Costs, or to Exclude Evidence

drive.google.com drive.google.com

On January 5, 2024, while Attorney Rozzi and Baldwin were waiting
for the Supreme Court to address their removal from this case, Attorney Rozzi sent
an email to Leslie Ross, the Allen Superior Court Financial Coordinator, seeking
information regarding his invoices that were initially submitted to the Court for
approval on October 4, 2023. Attorney Rozzi attached a copy of the invoices to the
email, and Ms. Ross indicated she had forwarded them for review to this Court.
This invoice was for work performed before October 2023.
8. A few days later, Attorney Rozzi was notified by Ms. Ross that his
invoices were being forwarded for review. On January 10th, 2024, Attorney Rozzi
was informed by Ms. Ross that orders were being forwarded to Carroll County for
payment. Shortly thereafter, Attorney Rozzi learned that Baldwin’s fees have been
satisfied but that Rozzi’s fees and investigator Alvey’s fees had not.
9. On January 10th, Attorney Rozzi inquired with Ms. Ross about the fact
that he (and Alvey) had not been paid. Ms. Ross responded and communicated that
the Judge was still reviewing said invoices. Rozzi heard nothing more. When he
(Rozzi) had not received any payment by end of February 2024, he contacted Ms.
Ross again to inquire about his requests. On March 6, 2024, Ms. Ross asked
Attorney Rozzi to submit the invoices for a third time, which he did. As of the date
of filing of this motion, Attorney Rozzi has not received payment or an update on his
requests. He has been seeking payment for services already performed now for
nearly 6 months.
 
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