Australia Australia - Chantelle, 27, and Leela McDougall, 6, Toni Popic, 40, Nannup, 13 July 2007

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So with the info that has come out at the inquest + what we've already found in this thread what are the likely scenarios we're still looking at?

1) All 4 are still alive and living elsewhere under assumed names
2) Some alive/some dead
3) All 4 are dead

1 is a possibility but unlikely. Imo if they either went to the airport or traveled elsewhere in WA/Australia someone would have recognised them even with assumed names/false IDs. If they moved anywhere in Australia someone in some tiny town must have seen the 4 of them travel through on their way there, even if it was only to go to say Adelaide and leave via Adelaide Airport.

2 seems a distinct possibility but the question is who is dead/who is alive? Gary/Simon seems the most obvious candidate to still be alive. He held the spell over everyone so I can see him being able to convince the others to do a suicide pact while he either faked joining in or claimed he needed to be last as cult leader. He also seems to have experience in changing identities so I wouldn't put it past him to change identities again. The only other person who could logically still be alive is Popic, although it doesn't seem as likely.

With 3 I think if all 4 are dead it's unlikely to be a suicide pact. The most logical place to go through with that would've been at the family home which would mean their bodies would've been found within days. Since we haven't discovered any of their bodies it seems logical to me to suggest any of the 4 who are dead are well concealed, either buried deliberately or deep within one of the forests in the SW. If all 4 are dead from suicide or murder/suicide there would be some evidence of where they went to do it. To get to a spot in the forest where a body would be undiscovered after 12 1/2 years you'd need a car. And unless you had a 5th person agree to be chauffeur to just abandon you in the forest a car would've been found on a dirt road somewhere and the area extensively searched. Imo 4-person suicide pact is out. The other explanation for 3 would be if someone else did them in. In which case we need to look at means, motive and opportunity for possible POI.

For me the key things we need to find out to solve this are:

1) Establish who these accounts that keep popping up and promoting the cult's ideas are. Are they Gary/Simon still alive somewhere or are they just new crackpots copying an old cult?

2) Establish who the ticket purchasers are. If they are either of Gary/Simon or Popic who went where and what did they do after that? Since neither of them used cars they must have had some plan to get to wherever they were going. Do we know if police asked if anyone had picked up hitchhikers from Northcliffe or towns along the Prospector's route? The only other alternative is these two people are the person or persons responsible for doing them in and are trying to cover their tracks. Both Transwa coaches and the Prospector depart from East Perth Terminal so imo there is the possibility this could be the FIFO worker and his accomplice meeting up. FIFO guy goes to Kal as normal, other guy goes to Northcliffe to not look suspicious and has another friend pick him up and take him home to Nannup.

What's the consensus among posters here? What seems most likely or worthy of further investigation?
 
SquiffyRae said:
So with the info that has come out at the inquest + what we've already found in this thread what are the likely scenarios we're still looking at?

1) All 4 are still alive and living elsewhere under assumed names
2) Some alive/some dead
3) All 4 are dead

1 is a possibility but unlikely. Imo if they either went to the airport or traveled elsewhere in WA/Australia someone would have recognised them even with assumed names/false IDs. If they moved anywhere in Australia someone in some tiny town must have seen the 4 of them travel through on their way there, even if it was only to go to say Adelaide and leave via Adelaide Airport.

2 seems a distinct possibility but the question is who is dead/who is alive? Gary/Simon seems the most obvious candidate to still be alive. He held the spell over everyone so I can see him being able to convince the others to do a suicide pact while he either faked joining in or claimed he needed to be last as cult leader. He also seems to have experience in changing identities so I wouldn't put it past him to change identities again. The only other person who could logically still be alive is Popic, although it doesn't seem as likely.

With 3 I think if all 4 are dead it's unlikely to be a suicide pact. The most logical place to go through with that would've been at the family home which would mean their bodies would've been found within days. Since we haven't discovered any of their bodies it seems logical to me to suggest any of the 4 who are dead are well concealed, either buried deliberately or deep within one of the forests in the SW. If all 4 are dead from suicide or murder/suicide there would be some evidence of where they went to do it. To get to a spot in the forest where a body would be undiscovered after 12 1/2 years you'd need a car. And unless you had a 5th person agree to be chauffeur to just abandon you in the forest a car would've been found on a dirt road somewhere and the area extensively searched. Imo 4-person suicide pact is out. The other explanation for 3 would be if someone else did them in. In which case we need to look at means, motive and opportunity for possible POI.

For me the key things we need to find out to solve this are:

1) Establish who these accounts that keep popping up and promoting the cult's ideas are. Are they Gary/Simon still alive somewhere or are they just new crackpots copying an old cult?

2) Establish who the ticket purchasers are. If they are either of Gary/Simon or Popic who went where and what did they do after that? Since neither of them used cars they must have had some plan to get to wherever they were going. Do we know if police asked if anyone had picked up hitchhikers from Northcliffe or towns along the Prospector's route? The only other alternative is these two people are the person or persons responsible for doing them in and are trying to cover their tracks. Both Transwa coaches and the Prospector depart from East Perth Terminal so imo there is the possibility this could be the FIFO worker and his accomplice meeting up. FIFO guy goes to Kal as normal, other guy goes to Northcliffe to not look suspicious and has another friend pick him up and take him home to Nannup.

What's the consensus among posters here? What seems most likely or worthy of further investigation?
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1. It is a not a bad idea and potentially the easiest thing for us to do as websleuths, to have a bit of a sniff around and revisit these accounts that pop up. The last time I did a sweep was 2017 and there were a few hits here and there, but he may have a new angle, a different hustle and the reality is that it could be just other scammers out there who have cottoned onto the fact that his book was written by Anon and was/is still an easy target...

2. If someone is covering their tracks then it is either Gary or a third party. Heading to Kalgoorlie is likely a 'blue dog'. It is the end of the line. It is the portal to the outback, it is kind of clever to pretend to head there... suggests one is looking to hide out in the desert or on the way to leave the country. There are plenty of stops along the way. The person who planned the trip is familiar with regional transport networks and likely to have lived in the regions around 2007. We cannot rule out that the perp jumped off at one of the early stops on the way to Kalgoorlie with an alternative way out via a helper, cash purchase of a cheap car, etc. It is a great idea to think about different angles around the trips, maybe break them down a bit.

Is Gary still alive? Why hasn't Leela escaped? People are buying up guns and bullets right now, today, like it is Xmas, in small country towns just like Nannup. Some people can only exist in these small country towns because they are larger than life. Gary was a narcissist and we cannot rule out foul play. Maybe someone got a hold of his book, had a run in with him, just didn't like the guy, maybe an accident – a confluence of things, others saw something. If all four are buried in the south west of WA someone knows something and is not talking. They are missing and they hid them well. Big toys for big boys. I suspect whoever shot all four is a narcissist too and could have been involved in searches, tv productions and contributed to other cases, and potentially talked up the cult aspect and in here too.
watergirl62 said:
Personally I lean toward 2, then 1, my last pick would be 3, but not because it can be ruled out.

Welcome to Websleuths, and thanks for bumping this thread!
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I'm with water girl, and I could be swayed to have a bit of a sniff around to see if stinky Gary made it out – it's been a while though
 
pauldking said:
If someone is covering their tracks then it is either Gary or a third party. Heading to Kalgoorlie is likely a 'blue dog'. It is the end of the line. It is the portal to the outback, it is kind of clever to pretend to head there... suggests one is looking to hide out in the desert or on the way to leave the country. There are plenty of stops along the way. The person who planned the trip is familiar with regional transport networks and likely to have lived in the regions around 2007. We cannot rule out that the perp jumped off at one of the early stops on the way to Kalgoorlie with an alternative way out via a helper, cash purchase of a cheap car, etc. It is a great idea to think about different angles around the trips, maybe break them down a bit.
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I remember hearing the focus on that J Rogers or whatever the pseudonym the Prospector passenger was supposed to have used and police said they had no way of confirming that this person went all the way to Kalgoorlie despite them purchasing a ticket for Kalgoorlie. This and the Northcliffe bus trip are what sways me against the "all 4 are alive" idea. I think they're both indicative of someone, Gary or a third party, covering their tracks. I'm also inclined to agree with you that the Kalgoorlie ticket is just to throw anyone searching off the scent by suggesting this person went to Kalgoorlie and took off into the desert for a destination unknown.

With regard to stops along the way, I recall going down to Bunbury on the Australind with my grandparents often during the summer when I was a kid. The last time we did was in 2007 and on that trip the train only stopped at the smaller intermediate stations if someone had booked a ticket there. It's not something we can find out but if police were interested they could probably check the passenger manifest for the destinations each ticket was booked for to narrow down which stations the Prospector would have stopped at that day.

Another thought is that the Prospector always makes a lengthy stop at Merredin so the outbound and inbound trains can meet and exchange drivers. Passengers are allowed to get off and stretch their legs and the trains will blow their horn to announce they'll be leaving shortly. Could our J Rogers have hopped off in Merredin to "stretch his legs" and just not boarded the train? Or could he have even just snuck on the inbound train cause the ticket checker at the door wasn't paying close enough attention when he showed his ticket and gone straight back to Perth?

pauldking said:
Is Gary still alive? Why hasn't Leela escaped? People are buying up guns and bullets right now, today, like it is Xmas, in small country towns just like Nannup. Some people can only exist in these small country towns because they are larger than life. Gary was a narcissist and we cannot rule out foul play. Maybe someone got a hold of his book, had a run in with him, just didn't like the guy, maybe an accident – a confluence of things, others saw something. If all four are buried in the south west of WA someone knows something and is not talking. They are missing and they hid them well. Big toys for big boys. I suspect whoever shot all four is a narcissist too and could have been involved in searches, tv productions and contributed to other cases, and potentially talked up the cult aspect and in here too.
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Really interesting you should say that. When I was reading through this thread and its links for the first time just before I signed up to WS, the third party angle stood out to me and one person in particular deadset gave me the creeps - the well talked about SLaL from the cult discussion forum. The man who suggested a wild theory that the 4 made it to Brazil and were killed in that plane that ran off the end of the runway. Who then went into great detail about how he despised Gary for ruining his business. I seriously could not believe I was reading someone go to great length to describe a motive for making someone disappear. A man who as part of his business would likely have a large property and access to equipment that would make digging holes easy and not suspicious. Who also moved out of the Nannup area within weeks of the family's disappearance. A man with a deep interest in true crime and was working with Hayley Dodd's family to solve her disappearance and who claimed to be writing a book on unsolved cases in WA. A man who seems a very typical rural Australian who dislikes the "hippy greenies."

Now I'm not for one moment making an accusation but if we had any reason to suspect it wasn't Gary and rather a third party responsible for whatever happened I know who I'd be suggesting the police visit and ask a few questions
 
It is not uncommon for the perp to start the fire as a vol, join search parties for the missing and even end up on tv for a local perspective. I know some even help out on other cases, like Hayley Dodd, put themselves front an centre with cadaver dogs. Kind of handy if you're trying to hide the dead.

Maybe this guy is a pedo. Maybe he had a tv show like a lot of predatory types. Maybe he liked little girls. Maybe Gary wasn't the target, just a problem. Maybe SLaL can provide some perspective in here - his dealings with Gary, was he working on Helm Forest and had he never heard of ground penetration radars. Even if he is not guilty, his angles would be entertaining and worst case scenario do a deal on some wood with him and chat about his Santa gig.
 
pauldking said:
It is not uncommon for the perp to start the fire as a vol, join search parties for the missing and even end up on tv for a local perspective. I know some even help out on other cases, like Hayley Dodd, put themselves front an centre with cadaver dogs. Kind of handy if you're trying to hide the dead.
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I'm trying to remember was it Andrew Garforth who got found out because his partner suggested he turn up and help the search and someone noticed his car looked suspiciously similar to the car parked near the victim when she was last seen alive?

I agree it would make a good cover if you're trying to hide it. Doubly so if, as SLaL claimed, he went to CrimeStoppers with his Brazilian plane crash theory. Give the police a legitimate-sounding angle to send them on a wild goose chase while the dead are out there having forensic evidence be destroyed by the elements.

pauldking said:
Maybe this guy is a pedo. Maybe he had a tv show like a lot of predatory types. Maybe he liked little girls. Maybe Gary wasn't the target, just a problem.
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I think it's a possibility but I still lean more towards someone pissed off at Gary if there's another party involved. Someone who wanted Gary dead but who also knew his family were planning on moving to Brazil so if he murdered the 4 of them he could make it look like they all up and moved away to Brazil like they were saying. I reckon this person would probably have been a local who might have heard Chantelle mentioning the move around town. I think an out-of-town cult member annoyed at Gary would have just killed Gary, hid his body, and fled back to where he came from
 
Some people can't be worked out and that can create fear in some. I have a theory about small country towns. It's only a matter of time before you cross everyone, and in a small town that can be for life. Characters can exist larger than life in these little microcosms. The perp could be the best at what he does. Often that fact IMO can celebrated with a long mullet. I have often wondered about some big mullets in country towns and have always thought - there goes a guy who is at the top of his game - he is the best at what he does all business in the front and party at the back, and in this case with big equipment. Excavator licence, knows the forests. Likely in the timber game. Maybe the perp is a bit of a local legend. I think it is a good opportunity to consider all angles given the current status of the case. Maybe there is/was a pedo ring in Nannup around 2007. It could be a confluence of things, an accident, perishing on Ayahuasca or another life in another country by watercraft and land. He was paranoid toward the end and the empty house was curious. Such a web has been woven but maybe it is something really simple. A child is involved. Leela really needs to come out now, she turns 19
 
So I checked Amazon for Servers of the Divine Plan, even though I do not approve the Amazonfication of the world spreading like a virus at the moment. Now we know Gary wrote the book, but a question to Jeff B. - who is profiteering from the sale of this book. A Seeker from USA from 2017 has this to say:
-----------------------
A Seeker
5.0 out of 5 stars A MUST-READ for all those who consider themselves to be Service-to-Other human-beings.
Reviewed in the United States on January 15, 2017
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
Do not take the advise of those here who are denigrating this work. Do not believe the propaganda circulated by the Australian news media and law enforcement about the author. This is classic sheep-dipping and dis-information, designed to discourage YOU from reading a work that all Servers need to read.

As for the work being "ego-driven", not once is the word "I" used in this work.

As for the work relying on "fear", the author does not promote fear. Those who felt any 'fear" from what they read already carry this "fear" within themselves, thus coloring and tainting whatever is presented to them with the broad brush of that low emotion.

You came here because you were interested in reading this work. There are no coincidences. Don't let others deter you. Follow your Intuition. Get the book.

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Surely Gary wouldn't want to be anywhere near this and it wouldn't be a great seller. Perhaps anyone can put a fraudulent book up for sale by Anon.

I do wonder who's ID Gary stole next, if in fact he did get away. Surely there's no Tony Popics kicking around the Americas off their chops on ayahuasca. Gary was paranoid af on that stuff before he went missing. Was he off chops and did something silly in front of the wrong person or crowd, talking in tongues calling them poofters or something. Did he go next-door? Was he screaming at a guy with a gun? Ayahuasca was one of Gary's lollies. Not wanting to really have to do a Dr Barry Marshall and drink the stuff, here is a review on taking ayahuasca with a potential insight to the onset of paranoid delusions. Plus worth a read to see the effect on his wedding vegetables.

----------------------------------
Ingested
50 - 75g Banisteriopsis caapi
12 - 15g Mimosa hostilis

Preparation
I had one dose of leftover ayahuasca from three nights ago. As my experience then was positive and promising, I decided to take a bit higher dose this time to experience the full effects. I also asked my friend R if he wanted to try some with me. He had never taken any hallucinogens before, but I figured he would be interested. After he agreed, I made another dose, boiling for two hours with two lemons, then letting it sit for two days. Before drinking, I strained and reboiled the plant matter for another hour, strained and combined all the liquid into one pot. It was boiled down to about four cups, which R and I drank at around 10:00 pm.

Setting
My college apartment. My two roommates, J and A, were also doing their own (sober) thing.

Set
This was effectively my second time consuming ayahuasca. I focused on a conflicting issue where my enjoyment of my work stems from how much other people respect me for it. I wanted to see if I could discover a more independent reason to work. Upon drinking I felt calm and ready.

The Trip
After ingestion, my friend and I scurried to my room. I turned out the lights and lay on my bed. R was on an air mattress on the floor. For the next twenty or thirty minutes, we enjoyed a comfortable silence, waiting for things to start. I listened to my body while repeating my intention in my mind. Eventually, the body buzz hit R and me at about the same time. I closed my eyes and noticed the green, red and blue triangular spirals, i.e. fractals, build.

Now, whereas at this point during my last trip I saw and felt spirits, none appeared this time. Instead, my conscious felt like it was being toyed with, slowly unwound. This made me quite anxious. Soon, my thoughts started to lose control, as if they were being implanted by someone else. Startled, I thought that a change of setting was what I needed. I climbed out of bed and stumbled into the living room. I spotted the couch and collapsed on it. Unfortunately, the lights were turned on, and the input was overwhelming. I called out to A, asking for her to turn them out. Once dark, the fear lost its potency.

A asked me if I needed anything and if she could play music. "Happy music, please", I managed to answer. Since my taste in music is eclectic, A and J couldn't figure out what I wanted when I said happy. "Happy Birthday" J guessed. “No”. I was unresponsive after that, so no music got played. They let me be.

At this point, I remember feeling different textures with my whole body. I also thought about A and felt calmer. This calm was short lived though. A thought loop emerged, where I couldn't rationally figure out where I was. The bed? The couch? The bathroom? Even after opening my eyes and seeing I was on the couch, this thought loop resumed when I reshut them. Fear crept up again, so I stumbled back onto my bed.

The introverted trip escalated. I cannot describe the thoughts I was thinking. They were impossible, and mostly worried or paranoid. I rolled in my bed. The thoughts picked up pace. Each presented a new reality that referenced the previous reality but not the one before. A chaotic, mechanical buzzing noise was driving everything. I remember calling out to R that I needed help. I couldn't express how he could help though. I knew I was trapped alone in my nightmare, unable to get a foothold on a reality, let alone the real one.

I stopped calling out for help at this point, as I was beyond communication. Instead, I performed a series of movements with my body and tongue, and emitted sounds. I believe R was at the peak of his trip and was displaying the same strange behavior. It was as if we were communicating in an alien language. Although I was scared, it was a beautiful moment.

The thoughts were moving at what I perceived to be three a second. My penis was intermittently experiencing short burst of raw pleasure. It was however entirely unpleasant. I clenched my fists, my penis clenched back. Trapped in an unrelenting succession of nervous realities, I became desperate. I opened my eyes, trying to take refuge in the real world, but was only met with blinding fractals.

I threw off my covers and ran to my laptop to play music. My fingers smashed the keyboard, trying to enter in the password to log on. I eventually gave up, and begged R to do it for me. I spelled out the password to him. He was concerned, but also unable to complete the task. It didn't matter, as I forgot about the computer almost immediately. My body turned, I called out to R. "I need help! Release me!" I was quite loud at this point. A and J ran into the room, frantically trying to figure out what to do.

I heard their voices at first, but soon couldn't compute their identity or that I was in an apartment with neighbors. I didn't remember anything of my previous self. The last thing I remember was repeatedly screaming as loud as possible.

I woke up in a hospital. I thought I was in a dream. The medic asked if I remembered what happened, what my name was, what season was it. I was able to murmur my name, and that was it. I passed in and out of consciousness, every time being woken up by someone asking what happened. I realized I was in a stretcher with my feet and legs restrained by leather straps.

Eventually I was awaken by A and J. We recounted what had happened. Apparently, I was screaming and kicking on the ground for around an hour. I broke my wicker hamper and a shelf. The neighbors called security, which I fully resisted. Medics came, sedated me, and transported me to the hospital. When I looked at the clock, it said 8am. Eight hours had passed that I could not remember.

The day and a half I spent in the hospital I mostly focused on what had happened. I was guilty of what I put my roommates through. R put so much trust in me when he decided to share ayahuasca, and that trust was betrayed in my mind. I was most fearful that he went through the same hell as me. Thank god he didn't - he actually enjoyed it up until I started to panic. I even felt that I had failed ayahuasca, since so many of the workers at the hospital never heard of the drug before, and their first impression was my maniacal self.

There are things I regret, but taking ayahuasca wasn't one of them. I went in with good intentions, and what I believed the right mindset. One thing I realized was that it is essential to do this drug under the guidance of a professional shaman.

I am grateful for all my friends, who understood and forgave me so easily.

Afterthoughts
I didn't purge this trip nor the one before. Perhaps that is partly why the trip turned sour. Does anyone else find that they can't purge?

I apparently was calm for a while until security came. Had they not come, would I have been able to ride it out with my roommates?

The hospital kept me for so long because there was muscle breakdown that could apparently threaten my kidney. This was caused by my thrashing when restrained in the stretcher. So, basically the only reason I was in the hospital was because I was sent to the hospital. I can't help but think our society deals with bad trips in an incorrect manner.

The only similarity with the previous ayahuasca trip was the body buzz and fractals. How can two experiences with the same drug be so different?

Humor: the security guards were searching my apartment. Upon seeing my bookshelf, they found three mushroom books I use for identification. They considered this a sign that I eat magic mushrooms, stacked the books and took a picture for evidence. I've never tripped on mushrooms.

Two days later after being let out of the hospital I was finally able to sleep. For three hours I woke up every 5 or so minutes because I had vivid dreams of the screaming and needing help. After waking up, I half-expected it to be that night still.
-------------------------
Say no to shrooms...
 
Further entering the Amazon jungle, all copies for sale of his old paperback are all in USA. His links to USA look strong, with known followers. If you check the reviews for the kindle version of his book Servers of the Divine Plan most reviews around 2003 are kind of interesting. They all have just the one book review each. I can't rule out that some of these reviewers aren't his followers and were directed to leave a review. I wonder if any committed suicide.

Steve holt England


“raconsel" New Zealand


Lynn USA


Dr. Scott Mandelker USA


rob Perth West Australia


Cynthia Castle Llano, TX United States


anders Netherlands, Europe


Steven the Netherlands


personne Netherlands


kathy schreiber llano,texas


JoeyAmp Miami, FL USA


Valeriano Tora Colleferro (Rome) Italy


"rev_dr_paul" FL, USA

A Seeker is there too, back in 2003, and there again in 2017. Let's ask Amazon who this A Seeker is.
 
This A Seeker has an interesting Amazon review history

They left this review on a book called "The Living Word" in September 2015. The book is about the teachings of the Spiritual School of the Golden Rosycross, otherwise known as Lectorium Rosicrucianum (or LR for short). For a more detailed explanation of what they believe and what the cult is like, this Reddit post is great.

2 months later, the user left another review on a separate book by one of the authors of the original LR texts. The wording of that review very much reminds me of people who are in cults trying to convince other people they're not a cult which imo a conman like Gary would definitely be skilled at.

Then there's a gap of 13 months before said review of Gary's book in 2017. And then finally after another gap of 2 years this review on some outdoor solar lights.

Now just from this, if A Seeker's comments reflect a genuine person and not some troll account going from cult to cult pretending to be a member, it would seem that this person at least in 2015 had some links to LR.The Wikipedia article mentions that LR "now counts about 15,000 members and has branches in countries all over the world, including Europe, North America, South America (particularly Brazil), Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK." Interesting emphasis on Brazil in that list. I did have a quick google of "LR Brazil" which came up with some photos on Pinterest but none of the people in the crowd look like Gary. The footage of him in Nannup shows a man with a hairline that seems to be receding rapidly (sorry Gary) so I'd imagine he'd very likely be bald or possibly has the popular shaved back and sides haircut if he's still alive and hasn't had a hair regrowth treatment.

The solar lights is an interesting purchase. I wouldn't expect that to be a popular purchase in Brazil. But the JUSLIT solar lights do seem to be a popular purchase in the USA and Canada. And we know A Seeker is a verified purchaser of Gary's book so I'd be really interested to see just where the items A Seeker is buying are being shipped to.

Imo if A Seeker is Gary then he's likely given himself away a little. If it's Gary we now know which cult he's moved onto and narrowed it down to him likely being somewhere in the USA or Canada. Time to start looking at all the LR cult communities in North America methinks
 
I've also tried putting some of those reviewers names into google where I had enough info to find their real name.

Dr. Scott Mandelker is basically a more popular Gary from San Francisco. Big into UFO conspiracy nuttery with his book released in 2000. He now hosts a podcast called The Law of One. And his website has a nice biography complete with photo

Valeriano Tora is very interesting. The profile pauldking saw was this one by a woman who claims to be 62 years old and from Rome. There is another profile with the same name also from Rome giving all her reviews in Italian. Now this could just be a complete coincidence and mean nothing but the English review of Gary's book is incredibly well written. I'm confident it was written by a native English speaker or someone who was so fluent in English that they could pass off as a native speaker. But the Italian profile gives all her reviews in Italian seemingly never venturing off the Italian version of the website. One review for sandals mentions the sandals were great for her grandson which definitely fits someone who would be about 75 from the dates of the reviews. So if these are the same person why the two accounts with just a single review in very fluent English on one account?

There seems to be a Kathy Schreiber-Clark who works in education in Texas who may be the kathy schreiber from Llano, Texas on Amazon. She seems very much alive so if it is the same person they probably no longer subscribe to Gary's nutty ideas.

There is an obituary for a Cynthia Castle of Texas aged 59 who died in August 2014. The description sounds like someone who might be into exploring something like Gary's weird ideas but I have no way of confirming if this is the same person who left the Amazon review. 59 is on the young side but as it's so long after the other suicides linked to Gary's cult if this is the same Cynthia then I don't think it has anything to do with it.

The craziest one of all is Mr Seeker. The account paul refers to is a seeker with emphasis on lower case letters. This profile comes from Eureka, CA and has a single review. The A Seeker I referred to in my last post is this account which doesn't give out any location details. I wonder if this is the same person or someone slightly different.

I wonder if some of these "one and done" accounts were Gary using the names of his followers to make fake reviews to sell his book? Possibly even using a well-known tinfoil guy like Mandelker to add some legitimacy to it?

It's also kind of weird that if A Seeker is Gary, that he should still be promoting his book. If he went overseas he's hardly likely to resume his same con he'd be found really easily that way. And with all the copies of his book on Amazon being used copies mostly from second hand bookshops, it's not like the money from these sales is gonna go back into his pocket so he'd have no reason to be promoting his old nuttery imo
 
From an ABC article written in 2017 during the inquest:

"When police started wading through evidence to find potential clues into the family's disappearance they discovered a call was made from their Nannup home to TransWA on July 12 to book a bus ticket from Bridgetown to Northcliffe under the name "Jay Roberts." The ticket was never used.

However, two train tickets booked under that name were redeemed on the morning of July 16 — one going from East Perth to Kalgoorlie, the other from Perth to Northcliffe. It was established that a passenger under that name got off at Northcliffe, and someone boarded the train to Kalgoorlie, but there's no evidence they got to the final destination.

Mr Popic's mobile phone was traced to Perth on July 15. It was used to call backpackers accommodation, Dominos Pizza and gay bar the Court Hotel. His drivers licence was also used to check in to a hostel in Northbridge.

Police have not ruled anything out, but say it is likely they were Mr Popic's movements, because the Dominos delivery driver later identified him as the one he delivered a pizza to in Kings Park. Mr Popic was also gay, so the phone call to the Court Hotel provided a vital clue.

On July 16, his phone was used to call TransWA. To this day, it has not been established why Mr Popic would try to conceal his identity to catch public transport, or what happened to him after July 16."

I find it interesting that police are almost convinced that Jay Roberts is Popic. Popic's phone was used to call 3 places. We know someone stayed at the backpackers in Northbridge, we know that someone had a pizza delivered to them in Kings Park late at night and someone rang the Court Hotel. Nobody seems to know why Popic or anyone would ring The Court other than it was a gay bar and no detail has come out about whether they questioned staff working that night about any phone calls they got.

The pizza delivery is the weirdest to me. Kings Park is a fair walk away from Northbridge and with no record of a taxi being called was he just walking through the CBD? Surely somebody out there would've seen Popic or someone who looked like him wandering the streets even at night. I'm still not certain if we can rely on the Dominos driver as being 100% reliable. It was dark and I'm sure he had a half decent memory of that strange guy getting a pizza in Kings Park at night but it would be so easy to be shown photos and have your mind fill in the blanks to go "yes that was the man I saw in the dark."

The following morning, Popic supposedly called up TransWA to book the two tickets. "Jay Roberts" went to Northcliffe and someone else got on the Prospector to Kalgoorlie. The timetable for TransWA's Perth to Albany service has passengers take the Australind from Perth Station to Bunbury and then transfer onto a coach with Northcliffe being one of the stops along the way. If "Jay Roberts" is Popic that means you have multiple people who would have seen him: the attendant at the East Perth ticket booth, passengers at East Perth, passengers on the train into Perth Station, transit guards, the ticket checker on Platform 3 in Perth, passengers on the Australind, possibly the buffet attendant on the train, travelers waiting at Bunbury Station, the coach driver. That's potentially upwards of 100 people who could've at the very least caught a glimpse of Popic and surely some of them must've seen his photo and thought "I've seen that man somewhere before." It seems crazy to me that the coach driver can be sure "Jay Roberts" disembarked at Northcliffe (as the coach driver is the one responsible for getting peoples' bags and ensuring they get off at the right stop) but never said that "Jay Roberts" resembled either Gary or Popic.
 
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cr...ed-attacks-on-two-14-year-olds-ng-b881614866z

This perp is from Nannup, now he would have been young when Leela went missing but it got me thinking, we can't rule out some sort of pedo ring down around there, or even just a couple of sickos. Maybe Gary was into little girls. Country towns hold secrets. usually around incest. They are also spots for pedos to hide in - on or off the grid. They can become teacher's aids, scout leaders, priests... Sometimes pedos get relocated to country towns cos they get run out of the big smoke. Maybe Leela was the target, not Gary. Maybe trainspotting pedos. Whoever used the name "Jay Roberts" certainly knows how the regional transport system works. Toot toot...
 
Froglady said:
Probably. I don't understand what it all means :/
Click to expand...
If you have a look at the archive of thenewcall.org from Aug 18, 2007 all the contact info has been removed and left with Contact Webmaster, the maito for this is steve_hit@yahoo.com. Previous to this it had their Nannup PO Box and gateway group link. Unable to find anything for that email as yet, some reverse searching hasnt shown anything yet.
EDIT
the email is linked to this Twitter page https://twitter.com/steve_hit so not sure if he owned the company hosting the website or he created it for them
 
Last edited:
rosepetal123 said:
If you have a look at the archive of thenewcall.org from Aug 18, 2007 all the contact info has been removed and left with Contact Webmaster, the maito for this is steve_hit@yahoo.com. Previous to this it had their Nannup PO Box and gateway group link. Unable to find anything for that email as yet, some reverse searching hasnt shown anything yet.
EDIT
the email is linked to this Twitter page https://twitter.com/steve_hit so not sure if he owned the company hosting the website or he created it for them
Click to expand...
I wonder if this is they guy
STEVE Taylor/singer/hit Songwriter/musician
 
rosepetal123 said:
If you have a look at the archive of thenewcall.org from Aug 18, 2007 all the contact info has been removed and left with Contact Webmaster, the maito for this is steve_hit@yahoo.com. Previous to this it had their Nannup PO Box and gateway group link. Unable to find anything for that email as yet, some reverse searching hasnt shown anything yet.
EDIT
the email is linked to this Twitter page https://twitter.com/steve_hit so not sure if he owned the company hosting the website or he created it for them
Click to expand...
Hello Steve the hit songwriter
 

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