Australia Australia - Tamam Shud Case - Male, Dec 1948

[Claudette]

I immediately thought he looked Irish when I looked at the wikipedia article. Then I saw that a pathologist thought he looked "Britisher". Which doesn't really say much since many Australian's have British ancestors.

Do poisons have half lives? Also, my memory seems to recall a spy being poisoned sometime within the last 5 years with a substance that was hard to identify/detect. This was either Europe or the Mid-East, does this ring a bell to anyone?

 

[Lyn1001]

I can't offer anything to this thread.

But, I did have a thought. Most men do not dance en pointe, even professional ballet dancers (although there are some exceptions).

However, one of those exceptions can include Russian male ballet dancers. Also male professional dancers who do traditional russian folk dancing. Just some thoughts. I don't know a lot about ballet just what my oldest daughter has spoken to me about in the past. (talking about the possible damage from en pointe dancing to the foot)

I saw this picture. I wonder if it is how his foot looked?

http://www.ourhealthnetwork.com/conditions/FootandAnkle/TailorsBunionBunionette.asp#causes

A bunion on the big toe and a tailors bunion on the little toe can cause the foot to look as was described in the OP. When I was a girl, almost every woman who was middle aged that I knew (family or family friends) had feet that looked like that but theirs did so because of two reasons 1. The area of the shoe where the toes went into was too narrow (pointy toed) and they wore that style for years. 2. High heels along with a pointy toed shoe.

I'd be curious to know if he was a Russian dancer (ballet or folk)?

Respectfully snipped for space.

Well developed calf muscles could lend credence to the theory of dancing. Also, beginning pointe too early can cause damage to the growth plate in the feet.

 

[Charlie99909]

http://wineverygame.com/wbg.php


check this site out.

it unscrambles letters for scrabble. it came up with some interesting words for the jumbled code written in the book.

 

[reasypeasy]

http://wineverygame.com/wbg.php


check this site out.

it unscrambles letters for scrabble. it came up with some interesting words for the jumbled code written in the book.

The more I look at it the more I think it is a memory device using first letters of words to remember a love poem, and the reason no-one has found the poem is that it is original to the person who wrote it... as indicated by one crossed out line where the writer thought again. I think MLIA stands for "my love is a" and "AIA" stands for "and I am" And it may or may not have been written by Somerton man, and even if it was written by him it may or may not relate to the cicumstances at the end of his life.

So... the third line is "My love is a (something something) and I am (something something)"

 

[Kat]

He was uncircumcised.

Snipped from RubyRed's list she posted. He was born in and around 1900. Fifty years prior and onward the USA had pushed for infant circumcision as a preventative (various reasons were given).

It was estimated to at least 30% of boys born in the USA in and around 1900 to almost 50% (or more) were circumcised as infants. (only recently have numbers declined for this procedure).

IIRC Europe and Britain did not follow with the push for infant circumcision at the end of the 19th to beginning of 20th century. They had much lower numbers of male infants circumcised.

I do not know about the custom in Australia and how widespread it was circa 1900.

While not definative, if we look at the uncircumcision in the context of other findings it might help us to decide that the chances he was an American would be lower on the list of Nationalities in comparison to the others that have been speculated.

Can we safely speculate that his family was not practitioners of Jewish faith?

 

[reasypeasy]

Snipped from RubyRed's list she posted. He was born in and around 1900. Fifty years prior and onward the USA had pushed for infant circumcision as a preventative (various reasons were given).

It was estimated to at least 30% of boys born in the USA in and around 1900 to almost 50% (or more) were circumcised as infants. (only recently have numbers declined for this procedure).

IIRC Europe and Britain did not follow with the push for infant circumcision at the end of the 19th to beginning of 20th century. They had much lower numbers of male infants circumcised.

I do not know about the custom in Australia and how widespread it was circa 1900.

While not definative, if we look at the uncircumcision in the context of other findings it might help us to decide that the chances he was an American would be lower on the list of Nationalities in comparison to the others that have been speculated.

Can we safely speculate that his family was not practitioners of Jewish faith?

My father was circed in Adelaide by his atheist parents in 1932. It wasn't a new practice at all, but not everyone did it. I think it had class implications at the time. Not that his parents were rich or particularly classy at all, just it was an affordable luxury for their firstborn, so that when he got to school and saw other boys in the loos he wouldn't feel he came from a family that couldn't afford anything. A bit like buying a fancy carseat nowadays. An aspirational thing.


Currently the Jewish community in Adelaide numbers about 1500, and it might have been less back then. Not a lot of Jews around here.

 

[RubyRed]

Contents of the suitcase

*Dressing gown and cord.

*Laundry bag with the name "Keane" written on it.

*One pair of scissors in a sheath.

*One knife in a sheath (apparently a cut down table knife).

*One stencil brush.

*Two singlets.

*Two pairs of underpants.

*One pair of trousers (with dry cleaning marks), with a 6d coin in the pocket.

*One sports coat.

*One coat shirt.

*One pair of pyjamas.

*One yellow coat shirt.

*One singlet bearing the name "Kean" (without an "e" on the end).

*One singlet with name torn out.

*One shirt, without name tag.

*Six handkerchiefs.

*One piece of light board.

*Eight large envelopes, one small envelope.

*Two coat hangers.

*One razor strap.

*One cigarette lighter.

*One razor.

*One shaving brush.

*One small screwdriver.

*One toothbrush.

*Toothpaste.

*One glass dish.

*One soap dish containing a hairpin.

*Three safety pins.

*One front and back collar stud.

*One brown button.

*One teaspoon.

*One broken pair of scissors.

*One card of tan thread.

*One tin of tan boot polish.

*Two airmail stickers.

*One scarf.

*One towel.

*An unspecified number of pencils, mostly Royal Sovereign brand. Three pencils were H.

https://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au...st_of_facts_we_do_know_about_the_Somerton_Man

 

[Kat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil

U.S. World
#1 B
#2 HB
#2½ * F
#3 H
#4 2H

A H pencil translates to a #3 in USA. For the most part many people prefer to use a #2 pencil because it isn't as hard to erase as a #3.

A #3 produces a much lighter graphite mark. But, isn't as easy to erase.

FWIW, I would use a #3 if I wanted to do fine line detail work in a pencil sketch. I would not use this pencil if I needed to blend, the graphite mixture is too hard.

However, some people do prefer to write with a #3, it's just less popular. Much less popular.

 

[Kat]

FWIW, when I looked at the video of the belongings as they were pulled out of the suitcase. Not all items were but what caught my eye were the artist tools.

I didn't automatically see them as stenciling tools. I saw them as possible art tools? KWIM?

Just a thought.

 

[Kat]

Also, one more thing. When I saw what has been identified as a stenciling brush?

I saw a brush that could be used to apply gesso.

Especially when I saw it along side the artists knife.

I may very well have misinterpreted the belongings, but given his hands were smooth and not calloused as they should have been if he were working on a ship and stenciling cargo....that is just the thought I had.

Thought I would share. Again, I could be very wrong.


ETA: I'll go back and see if I can find the knife and get a screen capture of it later on. But honestly, I saw what is usually called a Palette knife, which are not always offset. And even I myself have used an old butter knife that I no longer needed when I needed a palette knife and did not have one and didn't want to go out and purchase one for that specific project. Also, if someone was low on funds this is something they would use. JMHO.

 

[Kat]

First picture from 1970's TV show about this case. If you watch this show, notice that the LE lays quite a few things out. Those things are associated with one another and IMHO should be viewed individually and in context of a whole. This is just the first time the cut down knife is shown, along with other items and the item that the reporter has picked up and is holding up just out of frame is the brush (not hairbrush).

 

[Kat]

This is the brush described as a stenciling brush. Yes it could be used for that but it could also be used for other applications of medium. (oils for instance or acrylics which were just starting to be used in the late 1940's and were surpassing oil in popularity very quickly, because they were less expensive, fast drying time, and easier in general to work with JMHO on the last part of the sentence )

 

[Kat]

Okay cut down knife again. Yes the edge looks fairly sharp. But using paints that are dense with pigments can put an edge on your knife after years of use. JMHO. Also, see the item on the side of the knife? It looks like small mummy wrapping in the shape of triangle? That to me IMHO looks like a stump. Paper stumps that are used when you want to manipulate graphite or charcoal in a sketch or drawing. (smudge out a line, blend, drag the graphite or charcoal to shade...etc.) All JMHO. So while they can all be looked at individually and be seen as tools that could be used by a man who stenciled cargo for a living. They could also be indicative of someone who had a passion for art. Perhaps not a professional artist but someone who kept these things because they were important to him in a way other than making a living. JMHO.

 

[Kat]

Last one (sorry :blushing In my very humble opinion those pencils are for sketching and drawing. No erasers. The shape is of those from the 1940's and style is completely consistant with pencils used for the same thing today. I've got a motley crew of pencils upstairs in a box. I also do not use a pencil sharpner for my graphite, I use straight edge sharp knife and sharpen them the same way my Grandfather sharpened pencils for writing at home. JMHO. ( I will also use stiff brushes on sketches and drawings as well).

 

[Lil'E]

Also, my memory seems to recall a spy being poisoned sometime within the last 5 years with a substance that was hard to identify/detect. This was either Europe or the Mid-East, does this ring a bell to anyone?

You must be thinking of Victor Yushchenko, Ukrainian President, who was poisoned by dioxin in 2004? It is believed he was poisoned by his rival in an upcoming election. To learn more about it google the Orange Revolution.

 

[Lil'E]

Last one (sorry :blushing In my very humble opinion those pencils are for sketching and drawing. No erasers. The shape is of those from the 1940's and style is completely consistant with pencils used for the same thing today. I've got a motley crew of pencils upstairs in a box. I also do not use a pencil sharpner for my graphite, I use straight edge sharp knife and sharpen them the same way my Grandfather sharpened pencils for writing at home. JMHO. ( I will also use stiff brushes on sketches and drawings as well).

Awww...don't blush and apologize, I was thinking the same thing when I saw his tools. The brush to me looked like a foliage stippling brush, and his collection tools reminded me of palette knives, hand fashioned of course. As an artist myself, I am aware of the need to be careful when using some paints such as cadmium, titanium, colbalt etc, not to mention the cleansing agents. I was wondering if he was exposed to heavy metals in paints. Lead was in almost all paints at the time this man expired. If he were a salior, the ships were loaded with lead based paint, abestos, PCB's were used to illuminate instuments all sorts of terrible toxins are on ships. But would these be at sufficient levels to literally cause hemmorage to his vital organs? :waitasec:

Did I read or hear on one of the video recordings that a hypodermic was also found in his belongings?

 

[KLCD620]

There are few clues that they might missed on:

*Have the witnesses seen him walk from the station to the beach?
*No witness stated that he have pasty beside him on the beach.
*Where he ate his last meal from?
*Have they investigated the eating places (Adelaide/Sydney) that serve
him with the pasty?
*Why not they take the DNA from Jestyn's deceased son & Somerton man for
comparison? They could be related.
*Jestyn might knew more about his secret life than people think & cover up
by lies when she is questioned by the detectives.

Witnesses seen him laying around from 7 PM and between 7:30-8 PM.
If the autopsy stated that he ate 3-4 hrs before dying around 2 AM, I doubt he have the power to get up & eat his pasty as late night dinner. Or even pick up the pasty from the eating/bakery place. I don't think most places are open at 10-11 PM for eating in 1948. When people are dying, they tend to lose all functions before death for good.

Any thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taman_Shud_Case

 

[reasypeasy]

There are few clues that they might missed on:

*Have the witnesses seen him walk from the station to the beach?
*No witness stated that he have pasty beside him on the beach.
*Where he ate his last meal from?
*Have they investigated the eating places (Adelaide/Sydney) that serve
him with the pasty?
*Why not they take the DNA from Jestyn's deceased son & Somerton man for
comparison? They could be related.
*Jestyn might knew more about his secret life than people think & cover up
by lies when she is questioned by the detectives.

Witnesses seen him laying around from 7 PM and between 7:30-8 PM.
If the autopsy stated that he ate 3-4 hrs before dying around 2 AM, I doubt he have the power to get up & eat his pasty as late night dinner. Or even pick up the pasty from the eating/bakery place. I don't think most places are open at 10-11 PM for eating in 1948. When people are dying, they tend to lose all functions before death for good.

Any thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taman_Shud_Case

From late in the 19th century Adelaide has had a tradition of "pie carts" which are sort of like small trailers or caravans with a long window and counter, from which pies, pasties, pea soup and that peculiar South Australian combination the "pie floater" are sold.

http://www.samemory.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=269

Pie carts are open late at night right into the small hours, always have been. They cater to shift workers both late and early, people out late after after theaters and concerts etc.

The police at the time were pretty certain he got his pasty from the pie cart in town and would have eaten it fairly soon after, probably before he boarded the public transport down to Glenelg, maybe while he waited. But probably not while on the bus, eating on public transport has never been allowed even though smoking on public transport was allowed back then.

Accidental poisoning would have been unlikely because of the nature of pasties, you'd expect other people to get sick if a batch of pasties from the pie cart were contaminated. Deliberate poisoning with the pasty also seems rather unlikely because the pie cart worker would have either needed to keep a poisoned pasty on hand and warm just for the Somerton man who may or may not decide he wants a pasty that night, or would have had to poison it right there in front of customers standing a few feet away.

I fairly certain the police would have questioned pie cart workers and decided that they didn't have any useful information.

Edited to add: The wikipedia page seems to indicate the police thought he ate the pasty after getting to Glenelg. So unless someone was selling or giving away pasties down at Glenelg (not impossible, Glenelg has always been a busy place) that means he would have carried it with him, probably in his pocket.

 

[KLCD620]

reasypeasy-you've been very helpful with that info about the pie cart. I realized it still same wheel cart for food service whether it's modern vendor or 19th century wooden cart and the customers can have their meal in late night. It makes sense.

The mystery of Somerton man become difficult case to solve. I'm sure he was sent in as foreigner spy for his unknown country. Does you think he might be related to Jestyn's deceased son? I think it worth for the detectives to take the DNA test between him & the Somerton man. Didn't they look at this possible theory?

I feel that he might commit suicide once Jestyn is no longer his lover as she connected to another man (Boxall).

 

[reasypeasy]

reasypeasy-you've been very helpful with that info about the pie cart. I realized it still same wheel cart for food service whether it's modern vendor or 19th century wooden cart and the customers can have their meal in late night. It makes sense.

The mystery of Somerton man become difficult case to solve. I'm sure he was sent in as foreigner spy for his unknown country. Does you think he might be related to Jestyn's deceased son? I think it worth for the detectives to take the DNA test between him & the Somerton man. Didn't they look at this possible theory?

I feel that he might commit suicide once Jestyn is no longer his lover as she connected to another man (Boxall).

My personal opinion is that he was a person someone thought they had finally got away from by shifting cities or even countries. Or maybe he was thought to be deceased, lost during the Great War. Then one day a letter arrives from him saying that he is on board ship or has bought a train ticket and will be lobbing into town and will be visiting them. Maybe there was the prospect of an inheritance from an elderly relative. Maybe he wanted to rekindle a relationship with someone who wanted no more of him. Maybe he was just a colossal pain in the butt to interact with and had burned so many bridges in a new life that he was trying to go back to his old one thinking everyone would welcome him back. The person who reads the letter thinks "Hell, no!" and instead of telling people that Somerton Man will be showing up, holds onto the letter and broods about it, finally making a plan to meet and poison Somerton Man before he reaches the house he wishes to visit. All the other aspects of the case are either the efforts of the murderer to go undetected, or pure coincidence.