Australia Australia - Tamam Shud Case - Male, Dec 1948

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TootsieFootsie said:
Beyond the Grave | 'The Somerton Man'

Now, in an update to our first program in 2019, Somerton Man’s remains have been exhumed from an Adelaide cemetery in the hope that the mysteries behind this enduring cold case might finally be revealed.


Australian Story

Airs Monday September 6 on ABCTV, iview and Youtube.
Click to expand...
ABC Australia is running an update to their initial Somerton Man story. My Name is Charles airs at 8pm (AEST) 21 November. Colleen Fitzpatrick is interviewed for the program.
www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-17/my-name-is-charles-somerton-man-mystery/101668074
For those not in Australia, if you have a VPN on your computer you may be able to set this to Australia and watch from the ABC iView page (which is how I watched my Aussie shows when I was living overseas until a couple of months ago).
 
In summary:

In the program Professor Abbott's wife says he expected to be involved in the investigation process once police exhumed the remains. This didn't happen, so he went back to the hairs from the death mask and the ID process, working with Colleen Fitzpatrick. His wife admits he wanted to beat the police to an outcome.

They got good data out of the hair ("more than 2 million markers") and when uploaded to a site, the very top match was a man in the state of Victoria - Jack Hargreaves - and they built a family tree around him of 4000 people. Then filtered the tree for people who were male, roughly the right age, had no date of death recorded and were closely connected to the Keane family (the name that was on the tie). DNA was ultimately confirmed via a fIrst cousin 3 times removed. A great-great niece subsequently also matched at 396cM. DA and CF didn't see any reason to delay an announcement South Australian police hadn't given any timeline for an announcement of their own findings, they had been silent.

Gary Feltus (former detective) says he will believe it when police come back with confirmation.

The show notes it seems to be a sad story - before Charles died, his Mum, Dad and brother passed away, then his marriage broke down. His wife's divorce petition notes that he no friends of his own and was abusive. He liked to write poetry, his favourite topic was death. His wife came home one day and the house smelt of ether, she found Charles soaking wet in bed. He said he had swallowed 50 tablets. He moved out April 1947 and found in December 1948. Derek Abbott now thinks suicide is likely.

South Australian Police say further DNA work is required to ID the Somerton Man and ultimately a decision will be made by the Coroner.

The family photographs are lovely, especially one of "Charlie" with his parents and brother around 20 years before he died.
 
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TootsieFootsie said:
I wish we could have multiple likes all at once :)

I wanted to choose. Sad, Wow and Happy icons.

I didn't watch and not sure if I wanted to, so thanks for the summing up @Melt71.

But now I might watch it.
Click to expand...
I wasn't sure I would watch but when I read the article on the ABC i saw a few things I liked. It also had Rachel Egan on the show which added to the story.
 
Been a while since I posted but the case is very much alive. today's news is that an examination of the left ears of both the younger Carl Webb and the older man as seen in a small family group photograph are good matches. That connects both Charlie and Carl. BUT, when the same left ears are compared to the left ear of the Somerton Man, they do not match. The attachedSM-Charlie_Carl_leftearMKD2A.pngSM-CXharlie_Carl_leftear1_2B.png images show the comparisons
 
The Somerton Man was an unidentified man in his 40s or 50s whose body was found on the beach at Somerton Park, Adelaide, in South Australia.

The body was found on 1 December 1948 but his identity stumped investigators who found a scrap of paper with a seemingly coded message in his pocket. Objects on his person that could identify him had been deliberately removed.

The message was a Persian phrase that could be translated as "is over" or "is finished."
original.newsbreak.com

The cold case mystery of Australia's "Somerton Man" had to do with a coded message in Persian found in his pocket | Anita Durairaj | NewsBreak Original

The Somerton Man was an unidentified man in his 40s or 50s whose body was found on the beach at Somerton Park, Adelaide, in South Australia. The body was found on 1 December 1948 but his identity stumped investigators who found a scrap of paper with a seemingly coded message in his pocket...
original.newsbreak.com original.newsbreak.com
 
rjfjet said:
So this was sloved
Click to expand...
It has been technically solved, but by a world renowned genetic genealogist working for a private citizen.

The identity has not been confirmed by the police, formally. It may never be, if they do not accept the newer techniques developed to identify long unidentified decedents. Their regular procedure - comparing the DNA of a Doe to a known sample from a hairbrush, toothbrush, or tissue or blood sample taken before death - does not apply here. Neither does comparing his DNA to a parent, sibling or child.

But one of the founders of genetic genealogy as a specialty, one of the most highly regarded genetic genealogists in the world, has said she is certain in her identification.

So.

For all intents and purposes outside the rigid boxes of the law and bureaucracy, Somerton Man is Charles Webb.

For the legal system of Australia and the Coroner's court, Somerton Man is still an unidentified decedent.

Hence why Charles 'Carl' Webb is not, and may never be in the header of this thread, and why this thread may never be moved to the Identified forum.
 
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iamshadow21 said:
It has been technically solved, but by a world renowned genetic genealogist working for a private citizen.

The identity has not been confirmed by the police, formally. It may never be, if they do not accept the newer techniques developed to identify long unidentified decedents. Their regular procedure - comparing the DNA of a Doe to a known sample from a hairbrush, toothbrush, or tissue or blood sample taken before death - does not apply here. Neither does comparing his DNA to a parent, sibling or child.

But one of the founders of genetic genealogy as a specialty, one of the most highly regarded genetic genealogists in the world, has said she is certain in her identification.

So.

For all intents and purposes outside the rigid boxes of the law and bureaucracy, Somerton Man is Charles Webb.

For the legal system of Australia and the Coroner's court, Somerton Man is still an unidentified decedent.

Hence why Charles 'Carl' Webb is not, and may never be in the header of this thread, and why this thread may never be moved to the Identified forum.
Click to expand...
Ok thank you
 
I have some thoughts:

1. Somerton Man is Charles Webb - per DNA, family history, and family photographs.
2. This does not exclude Charles Webb from being a spy.
3. Possible reasons for Charles Webb to travel from Melbourne to Adelaide:
a) To find his estranged wife and persuade her to come back
b) Obeying orders from his "spymaster"
c) To visit Jessica Thomson and her son Robin
4. Charles Webb was not Robin Thomson's father (per DNA)
5. However Charles Webb may have believed that he was Robin's father.
6. Jessica may not have been sure, but in time may have also come to believe Charles was his father when Robin developed the same unusual dental features as Charles Webb.
7. Charles Webb was not a ballet dancer, as has been speculated from his well-developed calf
muscles, etc, and being in what was called "peak physical condition". His family would certainly have known if he was a dancer.
8. So why was he in such good physical condition? What had his occupation been recently? Or is it
faintly possible that he had cycled all the way from Melbourne to Adelaide? Or even walked?
9. He had Jessica's phone number - people do not give someone a nurse's phone number in case they have a health problem when visiting a city. Adelaide has and had plenty of doctors and hospitals.
10.He did not arrive in Adelaide and travel to a beachside suburb just to kill himself. He could just
have stayed in Melbourne.

Food for thought, IMO.
 
There isn't any evidence that he was a spy. Zero.

It's not necessarily accurate to say he had Jessica's phone number. It was in the book that he tore "Tamam Shud" out of...it's possible that he bought the book secondhand, stole it, or just found it somewhere, which means the writing could have come from the book's original owner
 
Sikkim said:
There isn't any evidence that he was a spy. Zero.

It's not necessarily accurate to say he had Jessica's phone number. It was in the book that he tore "Tamam Shud" out of...it's possible that he bought the book secondhand, stole it, or just found it somewhere, which means the writing could have come from the book's original owner
Click to expand...
True, being a spy is just a possible theory, which I included because it had previously been mentioned. But Jessica's phone number is a bit more than that IMO. Her home was only a block and a half from where SM was found. I find that a bit too much of a coincidence. JMO
 
www.abc.net.au

'It's a sad story': Family of Somerton Man reveal why he was found dead on the beach

For seven decades the Somerton Man was simply known by his anonymous autopsy photo. But now he has a name — Charles Webb. And for the first time his relatives explain the answers were in a family photo album all along.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

I want to post in case, we haven't seen it yet. Just found it and remembered the case after a long time.
You all seem to know already much more than written in this article though.
 
FromGermany1 said:
www.abc.net.au

'It's a sad story': Family of Somerton Man reveal why he was found dead on the beach

For seven decades the Somerton Man was simply known by his anonymous autopsy photo. But now he has a name — Charles Webb. And for the first time his relatives explain the answers were in a family photo album all along.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

I want to post in case, we haven't seen it yet. Just found it and remembered the case after a long time.
You all seem to know already much more than written in this article though.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this! I was following this case on WS awhile back and I don't recall reading yet who the Somerton man is! So I will be interested to read this now.
 
Andreee said:
Thanks for this! I was following this case on WS awhile back and I don't recall reading yet who the Somerton man is! So I will be interested to read this now.
Click to expand...
I also was positively shocked and excited, when I found it. Posted it on the "Peter Bergmann/Sligo" thread immediately, as a reason for hope.
www.websleuths.com

Ireland - Ireland - Sligo, WhtMale, 50-70, aka 'Peter Bergmann', prostate cancer, Jun'09

Fellow sleuthers, this one's perplexing to say the least. In 2009, a white male - estimated to be between 50 and 70 years old - arrives in the beachside town of Sligo, Ireland, by bus; checks into a hotel with a presumably false name; and pays in cash. Four days later his body is found on a...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
TootsieFootsie said:

‘Truth to come out’: Fresh claims emerge on Somerton Man’s identity


Behind a paywall I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Tootsie.

A note and floral tribute have been left by the beach in Somerton Park (as a birthday remembrance) by former Adelaide lawyer Sophie Holsman, who now lives in Canberra.

Sophie has spent the last two years researching - she says the Somerton Park man is Austrian man Carl Josef Halban.
She is working with Halban's family in Europe.

She names Halban as a milliner, sailor, Communist, spy, in her birthday note.

She says she has evidence, and has given her info to the police, and lodged a Coronial submission, and notified the federal and state attorneys general, Premier and Prime Minister.
 
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