CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[Sillybilly]

The dogs missed her because she was already in the tank. Lid Closed. The water threw off the scent I bet.

If she didnt make it to the roof alive, then what was she doing on the 14th or 15th floor? Thats awefully close to the roof to find it unfathomable that she had previously or even after made it to the roof alive.

She might have been invited to a party on one of the upper floors, decided it wasn't her cup of tea, and left and the other partiers were insulted for some reason.

JMO

 

[LittleWing]

Very possible! If the perp at all took her clothes as a means to keep from being followed then it does open a lot of possibilities why she got into the tank. Maybe to hide? Maybe she felt dirty after what had just happened? Unlikely that but it does make it seem more possible.

I really don't think that hiding in a water tank is logical if this was not a psychotic break etc. She would've made a whole heck of a lot of noise up there, lifting the lid, climbing, dropping down onto the cistern..all those metal stairs everywhere....There's no way a person who assaulted her would let her get away. He'd have been close behind her. And if she did manage to get away, why on earth did she choose to hide in a spot where she'd be trapped instead of using one of the many fire escapes, or bang on hallway doors to draw attention, etc?????? Sorry but I absolutely do not buy it.

In the video footage she is displaying, IMO, the knowledge that if she stays inside the confines of a non-moving elevator, she would be cornered and trapped. She partially jumps in and out because she does not know what to do, wait or try an alternate way. She panics and her hands up on her head are displaying panic and being confounded. IMO this girl know she's in trouble.

I seem to recall someone saying that the emergency stairs in the building are kept locked?? Is that possible due to fire codes? We know there is a staircase access off the screen to the left....so maybe she was turning to use the staircase?




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[Sillybilly]

I would guess that being a guest at the hotel for the first time she would probably not have known how to access the roof without being shown.

<rsbm>

Let alone, at 5'4, know that those giant cisterns towering above her were in fact water tanks, and that they had an access hatch on the top of them that would allow her to climb into the tank.

MOO

 

[Turk February]

I would of assume there were something electrical, like electrical generators looking at them for the first time.

Of course, you'd have to inspect the very top to find out it's a water tank.

 

[Sillybilly]

The article I found said all SAR dogs would lead to decomposing remains if they find them, even if they're submersed in water... ?

We don't know whether they were tracking dogs, air scenting dogs, cadaver dogs, water cadaver dogs, or cross-trained dogs.

IMO, it's highly unlikely they would bring SAR or cadaver dogs out on an early-stage missing person search. And I also wonder how the Chris Dorner manhunt factored into what dogs, and in what numbers, the K9 unit would have had available.

 

[Turk February]

Here is my scenario of what happened in that CCTV recording.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

The buttons she presses on the middle row from top to bottom:

14 10, 7, 4 (the floor of her hotel room), M (mezzanine), B (basement) and finally the DOOR HOLD button on the very bottom.

Based on a clarification, she wasn't on the 14th floor, but below it. I still believe her destination was the 4th floor.

0:11 Right when she is about to press the final button on the bottom, the DOOR HOLD button (refer to the picture on my reply post), notice the elevator door about to close.

It is only then when she presses the DOOR HOLD button that the elevator door retracts, and remains open.

0:13 Elisa backs up and waits for the elevator to close as normal. However it takes too long and then she begins to wonder if somebody is outside the hallway preventing the door from closing




0:23 Elisa slowly and cautiously steps forward to investigate the hallway. She carefully lunges out quick to get a quick peek out the hallway - but nobody is outside.

0:25 Elisa steps back into the elevator, bemused at finding nobody outside the hallway. I can imagine right now, her feeling nervous and confused. She wonders to herself, "is it a ghost??" "Is somebody outside the elevator?"

She spooks her self, and backs into the elevator wall, and into the corner


0:39 she musters up the courage again to step out the elevator to see if anybody is outside. Slowly taking cautious steps since there is a hallway on the left and right, and anybody is able to hide around the corner there.


0:57 At this point, security guards in the CCTV monitor room, watching her every move via the CCTV camera in the elevator get concerned, and one of them is dispatched to take the second elevator next to the one Elisa is in up to the mystery floor Elisa is on in this video.

1:12 Elisa stands outside the elevator, back against the wall. She wonders if there is a problem with the elevator sensor and waits to see if it will close if she is out of the elevator




1:27 After waiting for so long for the elevator to work, with no luck - Elisa becomes frustrated and panics. She puts her hands on her head and gets back in the elevator as if to say "oh my god, why isn't this elevator working??"

This is when she gives a second attempt, to press ALL off the buttons again, only on the middle row to see if it will work. Unknowingly, she presses the DOOR HOLD button multiple times, triggering it on and off and on, resetting the door hold timer.




1:56 Elisa steps out the elevator again, and by this time, the security guard using the other elevator beside the one Elisa is in finally reaches up the floor she's on.

He steps out, away from camera view from the 1st elevator and calls out to? Elisa asking what is going on.

Elisa is surprised, and then gestures toward the elevator explaining her dilemma with the elevator not working. The guard asks her how many times she (still figuring out what), and Elisa uses her fingers to count 3 times.






I believe that Elisa Lam was looking for a public shower room that was vacant since the one on the 4th floor was occupied.


And now knowing that the shower rooms are next to the toilet rooms, and also being shown that there is a vent at the wall for somebody to spy on somebody taking a shower, I'm sure Elisa caught somebody spying on her while taking a shower, and then threatened the person by calling security, which led to her untimely death when the person got nervous and killed her to shut her up.

Kind of an aside, but the comment on Yelp by the girl who was ogled through the vent in the shower.. you can see how the vent adjoins the washroom next door in this video that Arnold originally posted, and how, covered in soap, it would be near impossible to run outside and stand outside the washroom door waiting for the peeping tom to come out to confront him. Knowing this, if I ever stayed there, I'd take something to cover the vent when I showered!

Stay Hotel Downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube

3:28 shows the shower and 4:18 shows the vent up high in washroom next door..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unge9Zja8aY"]Stay Hotel Downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube[/ame]


She must of been too stubborn to go back to her hotel room to get her glasses, which is why she is seen having trouble seeing the buttons on the elevator, and then taking a gamble to press the entire column hoping she'll get to her 4th floor from the mystery floor, but she unknowingly pressed the DOOR HOLD button as well.

 

[OCSlacker]

Just throwing this video up again.

Bernard Diaz, 89, a 32-year tenant of the Cecil, said he heard a "tremendous" noise the night before Lam was missing in the fourth floor above him.

He also said there was flooding on the fourth floor the day after Lam went missing.

"They said there was some obstruction to the drain between the third and fourth floor," Diaz said.


I think this should be looked at once again based on some new findings here on this thread.

Are we certain Bernard Diaz lived on the 3rd floor. When I did a search it shows him on the 14th floor. Which would make sense if someone on the 15th floor tried to flush her clothing etc and then caused a flood into the room below. Would give the perp easier access to the roof area and the noise he heard could have also come from the tank or the room above. I am still leaning toward a long time resident or employee. If he was living on the third floor, as stated in the newspaper, it would tend to lean more toward a Stay guest.

Also, my understanding is that the long term residents lived in the left side of the Cecil and short term/hotel guest on the right. If she walked toward the left side of the building when exiting the elevator she could have run into a long term resident. The roof access stairway is also on the left side of the building

Not sure if I am permitted to post the link to show Bernard Diaz's room # so I'll hold off on doing that

 

[Sillybilly]

I seem to recall someone saying that the emergency stairs in the building are kept locked?? Is that possible due to fire codes? We know there is a staircase access off the screen to the left....so maybe she was turning to use the staircase?

<rsbm>

I believe it was said they were locked at night. Although it would likely be a code violation, probably done to keep people restricted to using elevators where there are surveillance cameras.

 

[DrSlooth]

That would be the million-dollar question. And of course, there exists the possibility that she didn't meet anyone that fateful night, but ended up on the roof of the hotel by herself and became confused and...

I have spent way too much time trying to find further Internet trails left by Elisa using various combinations of the user names I have uncovered so far. Nothing. I did find an e-mail address left by Elisa under her "L.L." alias...

http://www.latterstyle.com/2011/11/giveaway-lula-13.html

So...marinierefields@gmail.com

Therein might lie the POI. Or at least their email address.

LE could very well already have it, since she calls herself "Elisa" when listing it and there aren't any other e-mail addresses to be found using her "real" name. If not, they do now, right? Get that search warrant, LAPD.

Pretty sure that's Elisa's email. Scroll down to the post by L.L. on Nov 15. http://www.andyheart.com/2012/11/giveaway-andy-heart-x-stylemint.html

Also links to her tumblr and blogspot accounts. Maybe it can be used to track down any of her other blogs or social media.

 

[Sillybilly]

See you all tomorrow. Goodnight good peeps !!!

 

[ceefry23]

Are we certain Bernard Diaz lived on the 3rd floor. When I did a search it shows him on the 14th floor. Which would make sense if someone on the 15th floor tried to flush her clothing etc and then caused a flood into the room below. Would give the perp easier access to the roof area and the noise he heard could have also come from the tank or the room above. I am still leaning toward a long time resident or employee. If he was living on the third floor, as stated in the newspaper, it would tend to lean more toward a Stay guest.

Also, my understanding is that the long term residents lived in the left side of the Cecil and short term/hotel guest on the right. If she walked toward the left side of the building when exiting the elevator she could have run into a long term resident. The roof access stairway is also on the left side of the building

Not sure if I am permitted to post the link to show Bernard Diaz's room # so I'll hold off on doing that

WOW! That blows my mind. If youre right and he lived where he did then why is he said to be on the third floor? Why is it taken as fact? He was said to almost have fallen out of bed due to the noise. Is that his alibi? Let it be known I was in bed when this went down.

Unless he was on the 14th or 15th floor and heard ruckus from where we think Elisa is seen. I need to check this footage of the floor shes on however.

I believe that to be very crucial evidence.

 

[Turk February]

<rsbm>

I believe it was said they were locked at night. Although it would likely be a code violation, probably done to keep people restricted to using elevators where there are surveillance cameras.

Cecil Hotel is guilty of a lot of code violations.

Worst one would be the water tank hatches being UNLOCKED and the fact that anybody could have opened it up, at all times.




Some hoodlums sprayed graffiti around those water tanks. Could you imagine them dumping waste like trash, poison, and other harmful things that will be distributed in the hotel's water supply that is used for drinking, showering and etc? The fact that Cecil Hotel has been lucky this hasn't happened (except for the body of Elisa Lam unfortunately), tells me nobody could have acknowledged those water tanks as being, well...water tanks.

If you looked at it for the first time, wouldn't you assume it was something different? Like an electrical generator for example? Well besides that point, they'd have to actually climb up the water tanks to find out about the hatches as well.

 

[necco]

OK. Maybe I've taken too much cold medicine and am not getting my point across.

If the dog was tracking her scent and she was carried around on the roof when she was dead less than a day or two, the dog should still have smelled her. THAT is why I'm saying I think the dogs missed something if they were tracking her scent.

So. Perp kills her. Perp waits for opportunity to get her up to the roof when the coast is clear. Perp get her body to roof. Perp carries body to tank. Perp puts body in tank. A dog tracking her scent (NOT a cadaver dog) should have smelled her unless she lay in someone's apartment/room for days and THEN was transferred to the roof.

If that still doesn't get my point across, I'll be in the corner doing NyQuil shooters.

 

[Turk February]

WOW! That blows my mind. If youre right and he lived where he did then why is he said to be on the third floor? Why is it taken as fact? He was said to almost have fallen out of bed due to the noise. Is that his alibi? Let it be known I was in bed when this went down.

Unless he was on the 14th or 15th floor and heard ruckus from where we think Elisa is seen. I need to check this footage of the floor shes on however.

I believe that to be very crucial evidence.

He's 89 years old for crying out loud. Unless he's a very very strong senior haha

I doubt it fits the suspects physical profile of being able to physically lift a 5'4, 130+lbs woman all the way up the roof from the fire escape ladder for example, and up the 10ft tall water tank. The suspects profile is of somebody that has a strong physical capacity, and is well built -- like a security guard for example.


Although, that still doesn't detract things about alibi issues however.

 

[LittleWing]

She isn't on the 15th floor in that CCTV video, nor the 14th floor as I first believed.


She mostly likely could still be on the Stay at Main hostel floors at 4-6, or around the 8th-7th floor which has dark green wallpaper on the hallways such as the one in the video. Although, I'll admit it is hard to tell due to the poor quality of the CCTV footage, which has poor saturation on the colors. If you notice when she steps outside the hallway, her red sweater isn't as vibrant in color as it is when is on the elevator.

Also, the 14th floor button is so dim in the video, I never knew it was actually lit this entire time until I saw on 3:13 when it turned off right when the elevator door opened, which means the elevator was actually going UP, not down.

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

I do not believe she is on a Stay floor.

Stay is a very consistently designed hostel. A lot if care was taken to make it look a certain way. The rooms share floral feature art and baby blue walls and weird hand shaped chairs. Dogs are a theme, a play on the word "stay". It's aimed at younger and "hip" travelers and was a clever rebranding of at least part of the Cecil to try to give it a better image and draw guests.

In addition, when something is this designed, designers control as much as they can. I posit that Elisa was NOT on a Stay floor.

In this video, around the 2:56 mark, note the mural on the wall opposite the elevators.
http://youtu.be/Unge9Zja8aY

Here is a screen cap from the above video:


Note that there is no crossbar running over the mural.

Also this photo from another Stay floor:


As you can see, the mural. Also no crossbar.

What I mean by crossbar/molding, a picture of floor 15 in Cecil


Now note the crossbar beneath the mirror.

Screen cap of Elisa video and crossbar:





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[Turk February]

I do not believe she is on a Stay floor.

Stay is a very consistently designed hostel. A lot if care was taken to make it look a certain way. The rooms share floral feature art and baby blue walls and weird hand shaped chairs. Dogs are a theme, a play on the word "stay". It's aimed at younger and "hip" travelers and was a clever rebranding of at least part of the Cecil to try to give it a better image and draw guests.

In addition, when something is this designed, designers control as much as they can. I posit that Elisa was NOT on a Stay floor.

In this video, around the 2:56 mark, note the mural on the wall opposite the elevators.
http://youtu.be/Unge9Zja8aY

Here is a screen cap from the above video:


Note that there is no crossbar running over the mural.

Also this photo from another Stay floor:


As you can see, the mural. Also no crossbar.

What I mean by crossbar/molding, a picture of floor 15 in Cecil


Now note the crossbar beneath the mirror.



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The 15th floor you are saying? The wallpaper is red, and in the CCTV video, the wallpaper on her floor isn't red ... but that could be due to the poor saturation levels in the video perhaps. I might have feeling it is red. Look at Elisa Lam's sweater when she's in the hallway. It's barely red. But when she is on the elevator -- you can clearly tell that it is red.




But just in case -- if she is not on the 15th floor,

Then what floor do you think she could been on in the CCTV recording?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2kiP8FVOY"]Cecil hotel tour - YouTube[/ame]



And here is the CCTV footage of Elisa Lam.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]




If she wasn't on the 14th floor, then floor is she on? Is there another floor that has a crossbar and also reddish wallpaper like the 15th floor?


Now I'm getting more convinced that she is in fact on the 15th floor then based on this new info your provided LittleWing. Then once again, the elevator was actually going DOWN, and not up...?

Still believe her destination in the elevator was the fourth floor where her hotel room is.

 

[OCSlacker]

WOW! That blows my mind. If youre right and he lived where he did then why is he said to be on the third floor? Why is it taken as fact? He was said to almost have fallen out of bed due to the noise. Is that his alibi? Let it be known I was in bed when this went down.

Unless he was on the 14th or 15th floor and heard ruckus from where we think Elisa is seen. I need to check this footage of the floor shes on however.

I believe that to be very crucial evidence.

IMO,He's an old man he can probably care less if they if they say he lives on Floor 3 or on floor 14 in the newspaper. Also, it could be that LE did not want this info released and asked to change the floor due to the investigation. He is listed as residing on floor 14 but that could be a mistake also. Perhaps he moved floors but I think that if he is listed as floor 14 on the web I highly doubt at age 89 & after living there for 32 years that he would be moving to different rooms in the building, let alone a completely different floor.Also, I highly doubt he is/was ever asuspect or has anything to do with EL's death, he is 89 years old and I'm pretty sure the list of suspects available offer better choices than him. It is interesting if this info is correct.

 

[ceefry23]

He's 89 years old for crying out loud. Unless he's a very very strong senior haha

I doubt it fits the suspects physical profile of being able to physically lift a 5'4, 130+lbs woman all the way up the roof from the fire escape ladder for example, and up the 10ft tall water tank. The suspects profile is of somebody that has a strong physical capacity, and is well built -- like a security guard for example.


Although, that still doesn't detract things about alibi issues however.

Im more questioning his motive to lie about the floor he lives on. Also you assume that she didnt get in the tank herself which was part of my theory. Why is the profile a big strong man? because you assume he carried and dumped her in the tank? I suggest she entered the tank on her own accord.

Does this guy have any kids!?

 

[ceefry23]

IMO,He's an old man he can probably care less if they if they say he lives on Floor 3 or on floor 14 in the newspaper. Also, it could be that LE did not want this info released and asked to change the floor due to the investigation. He is listed as residing on floor 14 but that could be a mistake also. Perhaps he moved floors but I think that if he is listed as floor 14 on the web I highly doubt at age 89 & after living there for 32 years that he would be moving to different rooms in the building, let alone a completely different floor.Also, I highly doubt he is/was ever asuspect or has anything to do with EL's death, he is 89 years old and I'm pretty sure the list of suspects available offer better choices than him. It is interesting if this info is correct.

Is he not one of the said sex offenders living in the building? Also I read in an earlier post that floors 1-3 were used as short term stay rooms. AKA not 30 years.

 

[Turk February]

Im more questioning his motive to lie about the floor he lives on. Also you assume that she didnt get in the tank herself which was part of my theory. Why is the profile a big strong man? because you assume he carried and dumped her in the tank? I suggest she entered the tank on her own accord.

Does this guy have any kids!?

If you're going with that theory that she entered the tank on her own accord, then can I see your explanation as to how she was able to get up the roof please?