CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[hello people]

Check out google for 'LAM Elisa' it's some kind of drug or something...code name for some drug or antibody...

 

[Turk February]

Is he not one of the said sex offenders living in the building? Also I read in an earlier post that floors 1-3 were used as short term stay rooms. AKA not 30 years.

Bernard Diaz isn't a sex offender.

It's somebody else that was living as a resident in the Cecil Hotel, but afraid I cannot mention his personal details here due to the forum rules.

 

[ceefry23]

If you're going with that theory that she entered the tank on her own accord, then can I see your explanation as to how she was able to get up the roof please?

By climbing the stairs and going out the door that was supposedly alarmed. Why do u assume this door is impenetrable is the better question? How do you know the alarm worked? How do you know it was even locked?? All evidence suggests it to be quite the easy roof to access

Furthermore... If she was on one of the top 2 floors, why is it so hard to concept that she was hanging out with someone on the roof? Proximity to me makes it a possibility

Either she was with the suspect on the roof before we see her in the elevator, or she was in a room on the 14th or 15th floor, regardless she felt it was time to go to bed and he didnt want to let her.

 

[necco]

Some hoodlums sprayed graffiti around those water tanks. Could you imagine them dumping waste like trash, poison, and other harmful things that will be distributed in the hotel's water supply that is used for drinking, showering and etc? The fact that Cecil Hotel has been lucky this hasn't happened, tells me nobody could have acknowledged those water tanks as being, well...water tanks.

Respectfully snipped.

In my opinion, not all graffiti artists are hoodlums. Yes, technically most graffiti is vandalism, but graffiti, particularly in cities has been considered a valid (albeit somewhat underground and often illegal) form of self-expression. It's a renegade art form that is becoming more and more accepted in both the art world and as a positive influence in some urban areas.

From the Berlin Wall to the rowhouses in Derry, from the Scandinavian Institute of Comparative Vandalism (I can't make up a place like that ) to the ruins of Pompeii, graffiti has been everything from beautification project to political protest, from cultural phenomenon to gang symbol, from a way to sully a reputation to a way to strengthen one. Graffiti is profoundly diverse and deserves more respect from the art work.

Back to the graffiti at hand, without knowing the medium used to make the tag we see, it's hard to make an assessment of handwriting style. Spray paint graffiti lettering tends to be more swoopy and less crisp. To me, the graffiti we've been discussing looks like it was done with a paint marker as opposed to airbrushing, pissing (filling a fire extinguisher with paint to get distance) or spray cans. I don't think the graffiti is related to the case, I think it was just some kid's way of saying "Kilroy was here."

 

[OCSlacker]

Is he not one of the said sex offenders living in the building? Also I read in an earlier post that floors 1-3 were used as short term stay rooms. AKA not 30 years.

No, not listed as a sex offender. They do have a few in the building, I know one is on floor 10 and another on 7. When I first did a search I came up with 5 SO's at the address but could only confirm room #'s for 2. My understanding is floors 1-3 were used for short term stays as well. That's what made think something wasn't quite right with the article. I also think it's possible she was on the 15th floor while trying to get on the elevator. Which would tie in to the noise and flooding that Diaz experienced that night

 

[Turk February]

Respectfully snipped.

In my opinion, not all graffiti artists are hoodlums. Yes, technically most graffiti is vandalism, but graffiti, particularly in cities has been considered a valid (albeit somewhat underground and often illegal) form of self-expression. It's a renegade art form that is becoming more and more accepted in both the art world and as a positive influence in some urban areas.

From the Berlin Wall to the rowhouses in Derry, from the Scandinavian Institute of Comparative Vandalism (I can't make up a place like that ) to the ruins of Pompeii, graffiti has been everything from beautification project to political protest, from cultural phenomenon to gang symbol, from a way to sully a reputation to a way to strengthen one. Graffiti is profoundly diverse and deserves more respect from the art work.

Back to the graffiti at hand, without knowing the medium used to make the tag we see, it's hard to make an assessment of handwriting style. Spray paint graffiti lettering tends to be more swoopy and less crisp. To me, the graffiti we've been discussing looks like it was done with a paint marker as opposed to airbrushing, pissing (filling a fire extinguisher with paint to get distance) or spray cans. I don't think the graffiti is related to the case, I think it was just some kid's way of saying "Kilroy was here."

Sorry, but people trespassing up a restricted area like the rooftop at the Cecil Hotel is a hoodlum in my book.

Besides, this wasn't the only graffiti mark on the rooftops. There's graffiti on one of the water tanks, the rooftop doors, and perhaps more...

 

[ceefry23]

Check out google for 'LAM Elisa' it's some kind of drug or something...code name for some drug or antibody...

Im pretty sure thats just coincidence.

 

[Turk February]

By climbing the stairs and going out the door that was supposedly alarmed. Why do u assume this door is impenetrable is the better question? How do you know the alarm worked? How do you know it was even locked?? All evidence suggests it to be quite the easy roof to access

Furthermore... If she was on one of the top 2 floors, why is it so hard to concept that she was hanging out with someone on the roof? Proximity to me makes it a possibility

Either she was with the suspect on the roof before we see her in the elevator, or she was in a room on the 14th or 15th floor, regardless she felt it was time to go to bed and he didnt want to let her.

Then I would like it if we can determine how easy it is for people to get past the fire escapes and if the door was in fact not as secure as LAPD and Cecil Hotel Management had stated.

Then again, if she was found naked in the water tank floating face up in the 3/4 full water tank -- how do you explain her missing clothes if she went inside the water tank on her own accord?




Just throwing this video up again.

ANYBODY could of been able to get up the rooftops, since Feb.14th, 2012

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K-UQP2fPyc"]Cecil Hotel - YouTube[/ame]

Question is, HOW did they get up there?

Where they guests who had hotel rooms with windows situated next to the fire escape?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnOqmzwZuQ"]Cecil Hotel- downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube[/ame]


Fast forward to 2:05 at this video above. There is a metal grate covering the access from the windows.




Also seems to be another fire escape located in the hallways at the Cecil Hotel. Are those alarmed and locked as well?
Was there a hanging fire escape ladder on the street level?

I remember a no tolerance policy of visitors going up the hotel floors at the Cecil Hotel.

Again, the rooftop entrance is locked, and has an alarm trigger that rings throughout the hotel if the door is opened. The alarm can be disabled if you have a special key to insert in the security panel. Only employees at the Cecil Hotel, specifically - Janitor, security, maintenance and management would have access to that key as well as keys to unlock the door up there.


If the theory that Elisa was murdered and then stuffed into a duffel bag for example - somehow had access to scale up the fire escape ladder WHILE carrying the duffel bag that contained a 5'4" tall, 130ish pound heavy woman;

That would mean this person has considerable strength. Security guards for example are required to have a strong physique.


What about the residents? I know the Cecil Hotel had a registered sex offender living there.


Lots of variables here.

 

[LittleWing]

OK. Maybe I've taken too much cold medicine and am not getting my point across.

If the dog was tracking her scent and she was carried around on the roof when she was dead less than a day or two, the dog should still have smelled her. THAT is why I'm saying I think the dogs missed something if they were tracking her scent.

So. Perp kills her. Perp waits for opportunity to get her up to the roof when the coast is clear. Perp get her body to roof. Perp carries body to tank. Perp puts body in tank. A dog tracking her scent (NOT a cadaver dog) should have smelled her unless she lay in someone's apartment/room for days and THEN was transferred to the roof.

If that still doesn't get my point across, I'll be in the corner doing NyQuil shooters.

Lets explore this further

IF Elisa was in the tank the whole time, or at least prior to the search dogs.....How long do scent trails last, especially on a roof that is exposed to the elements? In rain? Would the scent stay strong even under rain? How could dogs track a scent that was immediately dispersed into the air If she was carried and inside of a bag? her body might not have necessarily touched anything at all, nothing for her scent to cling to. the only time you REALLY wonder why they didn't pick up on anything in a particular area is near the opening of and around the cisterns. if indeed she was in the tank when they searched, Whether someone put her in there or she got in there herself, she would have likely touched the ladder, cistern, lid,around the opening to lower herself in, etc. if she was lowered in and the bag removed, parts of her would've more than likely touched the outside of the cistern, too. I doubt they would've been able to put her, in the bag, inside the tank, then cut it off of her somehow to leave her in there, nude.

So I think you are right, unless it's very possible any scent she might've left, after such a long time and the elements and possibly even someone cleaning up/wiping traces, could have vanished.

What I find fascinating....... The guts it would take to move her body and risk being seen after people are aware somebody has gone missing. Though in this area missing people probably aren't exactly a rarity.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ceefry23]

No, not listed as a sex offender. They do have a few in the building, I know one is on floor 10 and another on 7. When I first did a search I came up with 5 SO's at the address but could only confirm room #'s for 2. My understanding is floors 1-3 were used for short term stays as well. That's what made think something wasn't quite right with the article. I also think it's possible she was on the 15th floor while trying to get on the elevator. Which would tie in to the noise and flooding that Diaz experienced that night

So did diaz Lie? or did the paper just assume he meant he was on the 3rd floor because Elisas room was on the fourth? or was he on the 14th floor and heard the ruckus above him? because if such is the case its making a lot more sense.

I was troubled at the idea that the killer would bring her back to her room only to kill her on the roof. I didnt see it likely that if she was on the 14th or 15th floor than any struggle insued on the 4th floor .... at all.

 

[OCSlacker]

Respectfully snipped.

In my opinion, not all graffiti artists are hoodlums. Yes, technically most graffiti is vandalism, but graffiti, particularly in cities has been considered a valid (albeit somewhat underground and often illegal) form of self-expression. It's a renegade art form that is becoming more and more accepted in both the art world and as a positive influence in some urban areas.

From the Berlin Wall to the rowhouses in Derry, from the Scandinavian Institute of Comparative Vandalism (I can't make up a place like that ) to the ruins of Pompeii, graffiti has been everything from beautification project to political protest, from cultural phenomenon to gang symbol, from a way to sully a reputation to a way to strengthen one. Graffiti is profoundly diverse and deserves more respect from the art work.

Back to the graffiti at hand, without knowing the medium used to make the tag we see, it's hard to make an assessment of handwriting style. Spray paint graffiti lettering tends to be more swoopy and less crisp. To me, the graffiti we've been discussing looks like it was done with a paint marker as opposed to airbrushing, pissing (filling a fire extinguisher with paint to get distance) or spray cans. I don't think the graffiti is related to the case, I think it was just some kid's way of saying "Kilroy was here."

Have to agree, "Booger" was just leaving his mark. Doubt he or any of the 780 krew know anything about this. Besides if you were booger would you leave a dead body 5 feet from where your name is tagged.

 

[necco]

Sorry, but people trespassing up a restricted area like the rooftop at the Cecil Hotel is a hoodlum in my book.

Besides, this wasn't the only graffiti mark on the rooftops. There's graffiti on one of the water tanks, the rooftop doors, and perhaps more...

Ok. But don't tell my mom you think I'm a hoodlum, ok? :rocker: (I'm an urban decay photographer, though, not a tagger, take only pictures, leave only footprints.) I see your side. Just wanted to show another perspective on the art form/vandalism debate.

Have to agree, "Booger" was just leaving his mark. Doubt he or any of the 780 krew know anything about this. Besides if you were booger would you leave a dead body 5 feet from where your name is tagged.

If my tag was Booger, I'd get new friends so I could get a new tag! But no, I certainly wouldn't sign my name to a crime scene, especially in a city like LA where they have such a massive anti-graffiti effort and data collection of sigs.

 

[OCSlacker]

So did diaz Lie? or did the paper just assume he meant he was on the 3rd floor because Elisas room was on the fourth? or was he on the 14th floor and heard the ruckus above him? because if such is the case its making a lot more sense.

I was troubled at the idea that the killer would bring her back to her room only to kill her on the roof. I didnt see it likely that if she was on the 14th or 15th floor than any struggle insued on the 4th floor .... at all.

Not sure if he lied, was misquoted or LE asked that the floor # be changed because of the investigation. It just fits and makes a lot more sense now that it shows him actually living on the 14th. I cannot imagine the killer risking walking around the hotel with her even if it was the middle of the night. I did entertain the idea of an employee attacking her in her room but getting her body from the 4th floor to the roof is much much harder in that instance

 

[ceefry23]

Again, the rooftop entrance is locked, and has an alarm trigger that rings throughout the hotel if the door is opened. The alarm can be disabled if you have a special key to insert in the security panel. Only employees at the Cecil Hotel, specifically - Janitor, security, maintenance and management would have access to that key as well as keys to unlock the door up there.

This is what I have a problem with. It sounds like malarkey. ********. These are things that are PROBABLY SUPPOSED TO BE THE CASE but arent necessarily. Especially in a run down hotel like this - and especially because of all the action on the roof we see.

Do a google search on the possibility of getting past alarmed doors. I checked it out a few days ago and for the most part there was a lot of info on how to do it.

Who knows how she got on to the roof but she definitely did. Was she alive or dead at that point? IMO ALIVE. 100% alive and willing.

Perhaps the suspect is a security guard with keys. Whatever it is I feel fairly positive that Elisa is comfortable with this person. Has spent time with them already and is just trying to go to bed. When she reenters the elevator her expression shows just this. Why wont this guy just leave already? Ive said no 1000 times. Counting her fingers is her listing the things she needs to do tomorrow and why she needs to go. The reasons are lame thats why shes bending her knees to try to embellish them.

She decides ok one more drink. and that was it she walks off with the person.

Had she persisted to leave, would she have been attacked in the elevator? or would the perp just gone home? Was it one bad decision in the end to go for the "one more drink"?

 

[hello people]

Im pretty sure thats just coincidence.

Nevertheless...

 

[ceefry23]

Not sure if he lied, was misquoted or LE asked that the floor # be changed because of the investigation. It just fits and makes a lot more sense now that it shows him actually living on the 14th. I cannot imagine the killer risking walking around the hotel with her even if it was the middle of the night. I did entertain the idea of an employee attacking her in her room but getting her body from the 4th floor to the roof is much much harder in that instance

I think we are thinking alike on this OC. Im not sure if it was you that found that tidbit of information regarding the floor # of diaz but if correct its very very useful info. I mean amazing info.

I need to study the elevator more but everything now points to her being on floor 15 right?

 

[DrSlooth]

So did diaz Lie? or did the paper just assume he meant he was on the 3rd floor because Elisas room was on the fourth? or was he on the 14th floor and heard the ruckus above him? because if such is the case its making a lot more sense.

I was troubled at the idea that the killer would bring her back to her room only to kill her on the roof. I didnt see it likely that if she was on the 14th or 15th floor than any struggle insued on the 4th floor .... at all.

I suspect he told reporters that he heard a ruckus above him the night before and they assumed he was on the 3rd floor below Elisa's 4th floor room. Having him on the 14th floor and hearing the ruckus above him closer to the roof does seem to make more sense.

But then again, is it verified that Elisa's room was on the 4th floor or was that assumed because this resident was supposedly on the 3rd floor?

 

[mya-pinion]

Hello to everyone,
I'm new to Websleuths, just like many others I have a lot of thoughts, opinions and speculations in regards to Elisa Lam mysterious dissaperance and death.
I'm not sure if other have seen the surveillance video, of Elisa Lam, in the elevator on youtube in REVERSE, its equally creepy.
Another video, that was recorded off a cell phone, that I JUST watched is of some guy actually SCALING THE (secure) ROOFTOP of the cecil hotel. It was posted by somebody named Weston Elrod, on February 14TH 2012, 18 seconds long.

 

[Turk February]

Hello to everyone,
I'm new to Websleuths, just like many others I have a lot of thoughts, opinions and speculations in regards to Elisa Lam mysterious dissaperance and death.
I'm not sure if other have seen the surveillance video, of Elisa Lam, in the elevator on youtube in REVERSE, its equally creepy.
Another video, that was recorded off a cell phone, that I JUST watched is of some guy actually SCALING THE (secure) ROOFTOP of the cecil hotel. It was posted by somebody named *snip*, on February 14TH 2012, 18 seconds long.

Welcome aboard

I actually have covered that video of the scaling rooftop several times already in this thread.

This one correct?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K-UQP2fPyc"]Cecil Hotel - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Turk February]

Lets explore this further

IF Elisa was in the tank the whole time, or at least prior to the search dogs.....How long do scent trails last, especially on a roof that is exposed to the elements? In rain? Would the scent stay strong even under rain? How could dogs track a scent that was immediately dispersed into the air If she was carried and inside of a bag? her body might not have necessarily touched anything at all, nothing for her scent to cling to. the only time you REALLY wonder why they didn't pick up on anything in a particular area is near the opening of and around the cisterns. if indeed she was in the tank when they searched, Whether someone put her in there or she got in there herself, she would have likely touched the ladder, cistern, lid,around the opening to lower herself in, etc. if she was lowered in and the bag removed, parts of her would've more than likely touched the outside of the cistern, too. I doubt they would've been able to put her, in the bag, inside the tank, then cut it off of her somehow to leave her in there, nude.

So I think you are right, unless it's very possible any scent she might've left, after such a long time and the elements and possibly even someone cleaning up/wiping traces, could have vanished.

What I find fascinating....... The guts it would take to move her body and risk being seen after people are aware somebody has gone missing. Though in this area missing people probably aren't exactly a rarity.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It was raining when LAPD went to investigate her body inside the rooftops.

I wonder if it was raining weeks before, especially after/before they conducted the first sweep of the roop top with those dogs.

The rain would of hampered the senses of those dogs correct?