CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[kingsway]

Just had this thought/theorie:

What if some charming man, with bad intentions, courted her and at nightime suggested that they should go up on the roof and look at the stars etc, maybe he even brought somthing to drink/eat? and when they were up there he suggested that they should go even higher up, on the water tank, and there he force her into the water tank or killed her in some other way, and droped her into the watertank.

That seems plausible, but there needs to be some sort of motive. If this were the case, then he probably wanted to have sex and she resisted.

 

[SCHMAE]

[/B] BBM
Do you have link about her at book store? All I can find is she was fine there. TIA

Nope ! A poster several pages back said they stopped into the store and asked a few questions to report back here to WS and those were their words. I guess I should have said nothing.

 

[Robert White]

Also, I just don't see her going in on her own and choosing that tank. Why not the tank with the ladder attached? IMO, she was murdered and then dropped onto that tank, then placed inside. Either the person could not manuever the body to be placed in the tank with the ladder attached and was forced to choose that tank because of The proximity to the maintenance roof, maybe thinking a tank slightly more difficult to reach by someone else might keep it hidden longer if they search the roof. It is possible that the person who hid her body might have picked that tank because the pipes run through it. Perhaps thinking fresh water would be constant in the tank.. I don't know anymore!!! :banghead: . I think the lowering of the body makes the most sense..

Snipped for context.

Oh I do agree. Its not perfect, but it offers one of the most clear cut theories in my opinion. There isn't much to debate in terms of theory if we fill in the gaps. What if they were sitting on the roof (as in the upper portion above the tanks), perhaps consensual sex or rape was committed, and something happens in between and she is murdered? All the perp would have to do is toss the body onto the tank and throw her in (I'm not including factors such as alarm/locks, etc). I'd say its not hard to make a body it where you want it. Contort and push all you want, and no sound or complaint at all. But either way - of course there are gaps. But theforeigner has given a pretty good theory, that we all have to admit. The hard part in our previous theories was if she was dead and the individual had to lug the body all over the place. This theory gives us an out - she went everywhere alive! The only physical part is tossing her off the top and putting her in the tank (at 115 pounds, most could manage).

 

[ugi012]

hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and I've been reading the past threads for the discussion about Elisa's death. ALthough I personally don't know Elisa myself, I feel sad for her since she went to the same university I graduated from.

Anyways, I'm not sure if any of you have seen this extended version of the elevator camera clip and discussed about it previously (http://youtu.be/MhMP66LAWhw).. but do you think Elisa actually encountered something supernatural at the hotel?
If you take a look starting at 2:28 into the video, you'll briefly see a hand that held the left elevator door which let go when she disappears off to the hallway... and it's strange 'cause you can't see the hand during the whole duration of the video but only during those few moments. When I saw that, it creeped me out.

Any thoughts? I mean, since the hotel holds a long history of disturbed and tragic deaths (this means many unhappy souls will stay within the hotel)... and I've watched enough TV documentaries of people who encountered supernatural entities to believe there are unseen things amongst us...
could that explain the eeriness of her death?
I've been scratching my head wondering for a while how her body ended up in the water tank on the roof, given that:

1. it's quite difficult for anyone to access the security protected roof door (besides the employees)
2. it would take some effort to get to the roof via the fire escape, or it would take lots of effort for the murderer to carry her body and get to the roof via the fire escape
3. her body has no markings or injuries indicating there was trauma or an attack

It's just that when you bring something 'supernatural' into the case, nothing could be explained in a logical way.
Why wasn't there any cameras placed in the hallway? I know many hotels where they have cameras in the hallways for security purposes. If the video could record sound as well, we could determine whether there was an actual person or persons there near the elevator.

(oh and i apologize if I'm not allowed to post video links I'll edit my post to remove it if that's the case.)

 

[kingsway]

hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and I've been reading the past threads for the discussion about Elisa's death. ALthough I personally don't know Elisa myself, I feel sad for her since she went to the same university I graduated from.

Anyways, I'm not sure if any of you have seen this extended version of the elevator camera clip and discussed about it previously (http://youtu.be/MhMP66LAWhw).. but do you think Elisa actually encountered something supernatural at the hotel?
If you take a look starting at 2:28 into the video, you'll briefly see a hand that held the left elevator door which let go when she disappears off to the hallway... and it's strange 'cause you can't see the hand during the whole duration of the video but only during those few moments. When I saw that, it creeped me out.

Any thoughts? I mean, since the hotel holds a long history of disturbed and tragic deaths (this means many unhappy souls will stay within the hotel)... and I've watched enough TV documentaries of people who encountered supernatural entities to believe there are unseen things amongst us...
could that explain the eeriness of her death?
I've been scratching my head wondering for a while how her body ended up in the water tank on the roof, given that:

1. it's quite difficult for anyone to access the security protected roof door (besides the employees)
2. it would take some effort to get to the roof via the fire escape, or it would take lots of effort for the murderer to carry her body and get to the roof via the fire escape
3. her body has no markings or injuries indicating there was trauma or an attack

It's just that when you bring something 'supernatural' into the case, nothing could be explained in a logical way.
Why wasn't there any cameras placed in the hallway? I know many hotels where they have cameras in the hallways for security purposes. If the video could record sound as well, we could determine whether there was an actual person or persons there near the elevator.

(oh and i apologize if I'm not allowed to post video links I'll edit my post to remove it if that's the case.)

Definitely not vampires then.

 

[Robert White]

hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and I've been reading the past threads for the discussion about Elisa's death. ALthough I personally don't know Elisa myself, I feel sad for her since she went to the same university I graduated from.

If you take a look starting at 2:28 into the video, you'll briefly see a hand that held the left elevator door which let go when she disappears off to the hallway... and it's strange 'cause you can't see the hand during the whole duration of the video but only during those few moments. When I saw that, it creeped me out.

Snipped for context.

Hello Ugi, and welcome! I've snipped a lot of your previous post because I am only going to address one portion of it. Hope you don't mind.

If you look carefully at 2:28 you will notice that as she turns away, it is her right foot/leg arcing, which causes her left foot to rest on its blade. This causes Elisa's left heel to 'pop' out, which is what we see. You can actually see the sandal. I'm unfortunately not a verified video analyst, but I have spoken to a number of people in my industry and we all believe this to be the case.

If we were to believe that it was a hand, why would it come out specifically as she was leaving. It would be best for an individual to grab her hands, which already disappeared, meaning they wouldn't have shown. Anyways, I'm sure everyone has heard me speak on this, so I'll be quiet Welcome again.

 

[fred&edna]

Nope ! A poster several pages back said they stopped into the store and asked a few questions to report back here to WS and those were their words. I guess I should have said nothing.

I think local info is often very helpful... just so we know that's what it is. I do hope new and old members who are local will take time to be "verified"... it lends a little more credibility and doesn't look "gossipy".

 

[24k]

I do not understand why people keep thinking there is any possibility this is suicide.

In order for it to be suicide Elisa Lam would have had to have been alive when she went into that tank. She would have died of drowning. This would have been IMMEDIATELY obvious to a medical examiner. She would have had lungs filled with water. And the autopsy would have shed some light on to this fact.

The fact the autopsy report so far has revealed nothing and that they NEED toxology results to determine cause of death, tells us she was already dead when her body entered that tank.

isn't it possible that she did die of drowning, but the toxicology reports can shed some light on why?

Could it have been an accidental suicide? Like people who get high and jump off of buildings because they think they can fly? Technically it's suicide, but they didn't intend to kill themselves. Is there a word for this?
'

 

[ShyGamer]

I've been catching up on all the different theories presented by everyone here.

One thing that I'm curious about: Does anyone know approx. how heavy the lid to the tank is? --- Keep in mind this is not a diss to Elisa since I am a petite woman myself --- I know sometimes, certain types of entry ways are extra heavy and padded to create a suction seal. Is it possible that she lifted the tank lid all by herself? Or does it require someone with a lot of upper body strength to open it?

 

[AnonymousD]

Welcome, ugi012 !

:welcome5:

 

[Theforeigner]

hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and I've been reading the past threads for the discussion about Elisa's death. ALthough I personally don't know Elisa myself, I feel sad for her since she went to the same university I graduated from.

Anyways, I'm not sure if any of you have seen this extended version of the elevator camera clip and discussed about it previously (http://youtu.be/MhMP66LAWhw).. but do you think Elisa actually encountered something supernatural at the hotel?
If you take a look starting at 2:28 into the video, you'll briefly see a hand that held the left elevator door which let go when she disappears off to the hallway... and it's strange 'cause you can't see the hand during the whole duration of the video but only during those few moments. When I saw that, it creeped me out.

Any thoughts? I mean, since the hotel holds a long history of disturbed and tragic deaths (this means many unhappy souls will stay within the hotel)... and I've watched enough TV documentaries of people who encountered supernatural entities to believe there are unseen things amongst us...
could that explain the eeriness of her death?
I've been scratching my head wondering for a while how her body ended up in the water tank on the roof, given that:

1. it's quite difficult for anyone to access the security protected roof door (besides the employees)
2. it would take some effort to get to the roof via the fire escape, or it would take lots of effort for the murderer to carry her body and get to the roof via the fire escape
3. her body has no markings or injuries indicating there was trauma or an attack

It's just that when you bring something 'supernatural' into the case, nothing could be explained in a logical way.
Why wasn't there any cameras placed in the hallway? I know many hotels where they have cameras in the hallways for security purposes. If the video could record sound as well, we could determine whether there was an actual person or persons there near the elevator.

(oh and i apologize if I'm not allowed to post video links I'll edit my post to remove it if that's the case.)

Concerning the, by me, highlighted in red part:

IMO that is not a hand , it is a tiny part her left foot/heal seen disappearing while she left.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

Elisa talking in an inappropriate way to other bookstore customers would fit right in with mania. One of the tell-tale signs is an inability to stop talking, and "pressured speech." Spending tons of money also fits right in. She probably was not sleeping (probably nervous bc she was in such a creepy environment and she was alone so had no one to talk to).

These are some of the symptoms of mania, some are highlighted for emphasis. Elisa referred to her episodes as "hypomania" which is a term given for people with milder forms of bipolar. It is not as intense as a full-blown manic episode.

Excessive happiness, hopefulness, and excitement
Sudden changes from being joyful to being irritable, angry, and hostile
Restlessness, increased energy, and less need for sleep
Rapid talk, talkativeness
Distractibility
Racing thoughts
High sex drive
Tendency to make grand and unattainable plans
Tendency to show poor judgment, such as impulsively deciding to quit a job
Inflated self-esteem or grandiosity -- unrealistic beliefs in one's ability, intelligence, and powers; may be delusional
Increased reckless behaviors (such as lavish spending sprees, impulsive sexual indiscretions, abuse of alcohol or drugs, or ill-advised business decisions)

Source: http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/guide/hypomania-mania-symptoms

It still does not explain how she ended up in the water tank. It's not a logical place for anyone to go. Who even thinks about the water tanks in any building they stay in?

More and more I am starting to question how LE is acting. I'm new to this, so maybe others can shed some light. The timeline is also weird, why did they release the video a whole week after she was reported missing? Why release it at all? To make her look crazy, to figure out who she was talking to?

 

[tapu]

I've been catching up on all the different theories presented by everyone here.

One thing that I'm curious about: Does anyone know approx. how heavy the lid to the tank is? --- Keep in mind this is not a diss to Elisa since I am a petite woman myself --- I know sometimes, certain types of entry ways are extra heavy and padded to create a suction seal. Is it possible that she lifted the tank lid all by herself? Or does it require someone with a lot of upper body strength to open it?

Looking at the tank lid and considering its function, I would think that lifting it would be very difficult for me and I'm a medium size woman, "strong like bull"!

In relation to that, when I try to imagine dropping myself down into that high, dark tank of water... well, I'd maybe have to be more than psychotic, playful, manic, or depressed. I think the mind/body would rebel at its own attempts (as with drowning). Not to say it isn't possible--just my subjective imaginings.

 

[catatonia]

Could it have been an accidental suicide? Like people who get high and jump off of buildings because they think they can fly? Technically it's suicide, but they didn't intend to kill themselves. Is there a word for this?

Suicide by accident maybe?

 

[matou]

Death by misadventure, I think.

 

[tapu]

Death by misadventure, I think.

I think that's what is used by LE, on forms, etc. I propose "delusional suicide" or "suicide by delusion."

(Hey, maybe I will present my cred to mods as a linguist. Seriously.... Guess I will if I come up with something to assert.)

 

[fred&edna]

Snipped for context.

Oh I do agree. Its not perfect, but it offers one of the most clear cut theories in my opinion. There isn't much to debate in terms of theory if we fill in the gaps. What if they were sitting on the roof (as in the upper portion above the tanks), perhaps consensual sex or rape was committed, and something happens in between and she is murdered? All the perp would have to do is toss the body onto the tank and throw her in (I'm not including factors such as alarm/locks, etc). I'd say its not hard to make a body it where you want it. Contort and push all you want, and no sound or complaint at all. But either way - of course there are gaps. But theforeigner has given a pretty good theory, that we all have to admit. The hard part in our previous theories was if she was dead and the individual had to lug the body all over the place. This theory gives us an out - she went everywhere alive! The only physical part is tossing her off the top and putting her in the tank (at 115 pounds, most could manage).

I like this theory! Only thing left is how she died.

**On 2nd thought... there might be more than one thing left.

Also, (jmo) but I don't believe the search dogs made a mistake. This would take that into account... by the fact she was only on the upper portion of the bldg.

 

[ThinkHard]

Unintended suicide, I think would be the most appropriate term.

But in my opinion I'm not sure this is a strong possibility given the manner she died.

Also I'm very curious if she was clothed or not. Because we don't know that for sure yet. But if she was undressed, and her clothing has not been located....then I would think it is unlikely someone else was not involved.

Also people keep saying that they don't think someone could have climbed a ladder while carrying a body.....

Don't firemen do this? I mean they are going down not up....but couldn't someone fireman carry a petite female up a ladder?

 

[commspecialist]

I have a question for people who know at least something about psychology here.

I haven't looked too thoroughly at her Tumblr (I feel a bit creepy reading it) but this post caught my eye. I know you can't know much about someone based on a post made on a social network, but Elisa seemed really open on there. There's this one bizarre post that doesn't fit in with her other ones, and it's quite old. I was just wondering if this could suggest psychosis rather than (or on top of ) mania:

Adventures in hypomania Part II
I have been hypomanic since Tuesday.

I HAVE TO GET SOME SLEEP OR I WILL CRASH

and I am so scared of how big of a crash this one will be.

How do I know this is might become THE BIG ONE? My memory is super compromised on present things right now.

It’s just….I understand everything completely. Fellow bipolars, you may be the only ones who will understand what this is like.

With absolute clarity, I understand the universe. My mind isn’t just blown, it’s the hindenburg + hiroshima + nagasaki + san francisco earthquake + a rock concert where the music is so loud your eardrums are bleeding

Like the equivalent of when humans discovered fire but not as big as the Big Bang

And that’s why someone said (see memory fail right here) :

**** QUICK GET ME PEN AND PAPER I MUST WRITE THIS DOWN BEFORE I FORGET THIS IDEA WILL NEVER RE-EMERGE BECAUSE MY MEMORY IS FAILING*

ergo my brain is saying :

“I HAVE SO MUCH **** TO DO BECAUSE I HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE SLEEPING IS USELESS WHY ARE YOU BLOODY SLEEPING THAT’S SUCH A WASTE OF TIME THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT YOU HAVE FINALLY CONNECTED THE DOTS AND YOU’RE GOING TO LET IT SLIP AWAY **** I BET IF YOU WROTE THE WHOLE THING DOWN YOU COULD GET A FREAKIN NOBEL PEACE PRIZE IN ALL THE BLOODY CATEGORIES GAWD WHY HAVEN’T WE EVOLVED TO NOT NEED SLEEP LIKE WE HAVE **** TO DO AND LIMITED TIME AND MOST OF IT IS SPENT LYING DOWN JUST BREATHING I MEAN I CAN DO ALL THE LYING DOWN I NEED WHEN I’M DEAD (but not breathing) BREATHING IS SO FREAKIN OVERRATED I SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXIST IN SPACE IN A VACCUM I MEAN IF THE BLOODY MOON CAN DO IT WHY CAN’T I THE MOON IS JUST MADE OF CHEESE ANYWAYS HOLY ****ING **** TWAT MOTHER****ER MERDE TABERNACLE AI YAAAAAAAA I HAVE NEVER SWORN SO MUCH BECAUSE I ‘WASTED’ 4 YEARS AND IT HAS CULMINATED INTO THIS ONE POINT AND YOU ARE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO REMEMBER ALL OF IT TOMORROW LIKE ****ING HELL SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO DEVOTE THEIR WHOLE LIVES TO GET A PHD IN ORDER TO MAKE A DISCOVERY THAT ADDS THIS TINY LITTLE INFITISIMAL SPECK IN PROGRESS AND YOU HAVE FIGURED OUT EVERY BLOODY THING IN THE SPAN OF 48 HOURS

and that is why another someone (memory fail #1291) said:

You either get it down on paper or you go crazy

tl;dr I need to learn shorthand

snipped from here: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

And if it's possible that she experienced psychosis as a side of bipolar/hypomania, I guess it is possible that she thought she was hiding from something in the tank. (Though more likely, in my view, that she was preyed upon by someone who took advantage of her state)

My (extremely layperson understanding) of psychosis is that it indicates a temporary detachment from reality, while hypomania is a surge of manic energy? The "absolute certainty" about understanding the universe is a feeling that suggests detachment from reality to me. I wonder if she had difficulty expressing that to a doctor or therapist.

 

[catatonia]

Does anyone know if it is still possible (due to the decomposition of her body) to prove whether she was on Ambien when she died? Under normal circumstances in any case, but a corpse floating in water for about 3 weeks (19 days right?) is a whole another story.