CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[FiveFelines]

According to CBS Los Angeles, KNX 1070's Claudia Peschiutta reported guests were disturbed to learn Lam's nude body was found inside one of the four large water tanks.

I believe her clothes were clogging the tank valves...

http://www.examiner.com/article/naked-body-of-missing-canadian-tourist-found-hotel-water-tank-video

That makes sense to me, as does the idea that (if there's a second party), someone also tried to dispose of her ID, etc. (if missing) via the plumbing.

 

[watchful_eye]

NOT speculating--just posting this video of AT just to ease anyone's curiosity. https://scripps.endplay.com/web/wptv/dpp/news/national/elisa-lam-cecil-hotel-update-video-inside-the-los-angeles-hotel

 

[Borris]

She is wearing sandals in the video.

Yes, but then once it was proven they were sandals, her friend (Binoculars) wrote: "I've never seen her wear sandals before but than against Vancouver hardly has sandal wearing weather."

Which means it wasn't whether sandals or heels was important but the cross-over straps.

Anyway, this is all away from the minor suggestion that I was trying to make, which was about the Fashion District.

 

[Robert White]

Been awhile since I've posted because I'm back to the grind I've tried to catch up but everyone has posted so much I gave up. I know that a lot of you have wondered what the LE think. I brought in the opinions of my friend who worked at SOC, but that is more counter-terrorism, so I know that didn't help much. This time I spoke to a close friend of mine who works as an LE officer in a difference province. I'm hoping this conversation can help you with some of your outstanding questions in regards to how LE may think.

Please keep in mind, I've heavily edited this conversation to appear more sensitive to the subject matter. I've done my best to take out the swearing, etc. This conversation cannot and will not be verified, so you will have to take my word for it. Posters in the very first thread will know my SM expertise, which I am trying to get verified by WS. Oh, and its really long. Sorry

RW: Let me know your initial thoughts?

CP: First it looks like she was trying to hide from someone, then farther into the video shes definitely out of it

RW: Don't you think its strange that if someone was out there, she'd have so much freedom of movement?

CP: Yes, exactly. I think she was on something or from my experience man [Data remove]. It'd be nice to know a bit more about her background too, know what kind of stresses are in her life. Did she break up with a bf/ overworked at school etc, did she drink socially ever use drugs all that stuff.

RW: Good call mate. Apparently according to social media, she was on anti-depressants and all that *edit*. And she was on this trip to Santa Monica by herself to some *edit* farm thing.

CP: There it is right there the depressants. When people misuse or don't use when they need too they going *edit* crazy man. [Data removed].

RW: Hmmm but then how did she get in the tank, no clothes? That's not typical of suicide?

CP: Yea media likes to over complicate stuff, I bet you anti depressants + alcohol or too much anti-dep. No clothes is common - people like to kill themselves naked [Data removed].

RW: In water though?

CP: No that's uncommon but maybe that part was accidental. Shes drugged up takes clothes off cuz shes higher than a kite (thats why u see so many naked people on COPS haha)

RW: Think maybe she went on a trip and ended up 'hiding' in the tank from something?

CP: Could've been I didn't really look at any pics of the tanks or how they opened etc. But if shes so spaced out shes ****ing around in the elevator hiding from whatever hallucinations not hard to believe she somehow falls in a water tank

RW: Yeah just looking over the video with the guys from the office and we don't see any evidence of some dude hiding from the ele cam.

CP: Exactly and if someone was after u and u were truly afraid if the elevator wasnt working ud run ur *advertiser censored* off

RW: Yeah, which is what we argued. You'd never corner yourself.

CP: Yea and remember the media never gets the full the story and people read too much of it, i bet the investigators already know what happened. They will have her medical records, how crazy she was, etc. Like she probably is diagnosed schizo/depression/suicidal. Family and friends and relatives never say that *edit* to the media. They say she was a nice girl good student etc.

RW: So your opinion is that no murder? suicide/accident?

CP: Suicide or accident or at best something got slipped into her drink, but they will treat it like a homicide (which they should) and do a proper investigation just in case. We'd do the same, anything looks a little fishy treat it like a homicide

RW: Oh, what drugs have you seen that will allow someone to keep up like that if you spike a drink? [Data removed]

CP: It's always dependent on the person, like i agree shes walking pretty good not looking like drunk, but sometimes people then all of a sudden hit the wall (which is probably how she drowned) and i was thinking the same racking my brain on what and too be honest when u said anti-depressants makes most sense.

RW: Like not on her meds? Or hit a mental break?

CP: Combine those with alcohol or just an overdose and u see that behaviour. [Data removed] Less likely the trip of a breakdown then, usually that's spur of the moment. I dunno, if i were starting this investigation i want to know the medical history, who she talked to last, what her demeanor was like, and had she been on medication or not

RW: What do you make of the coroners saying that death is inconclusive until tox reports are back? Drowning couldn't be established b/c of body decomp?

CP: That to me means they think she was on something. Well u never know there are always those RARE serial type/ random killing ones and those hardest to for the investigators. Like they'd be doing backgrounds on all this girls friends if she was seen in the hotel with anyone. Like if there was anyone suspicious in that hotel they'd know from video surveillance. And if they believed there was a "random" killer out there theyd release that to public cuz they have a "duty to warn".

RW: Okay, so if they thought this was a murder, they'd have said it?

CP: If they thought it was a Random murder, they would say.

RW: But if it was targeted by someone who wanted a rape/kill, then no?

CP: Basically they have to do a duty to warn if they think anyone else could be in danger. So like if u poison ur girlfriend and we think its suspicious and are looking into it, i don't really have to say to the public that a murderer is out there.

RW: Okay so hypot if the she was killed by a guest or resident of that building, then they would not have to say b/c it could jepo the case?

CP: And that's a tricky one cuz if that's the case that person could pose some risk to someone else in the hotel. So id be releasing a statement saying this may be suspicious, we are warning the public especially women, to watch ur drinks, etc [Data removed]. But because they didn't do that makes me think they are 90% certain its accidental/suicide.

RW: I had it assessed as rape/murder bc of the naked body, but you saying that's common changes my mind.

CP: it still could be ull never solve it off what media gives you [Data remove]. And also maybe its super simple, she finds water tank, oh hey im a bit crazy and feel like a swim, boom rips clothes off, jumps in, oh **** im *edit* and stuck in this tank.

RW: You're sure as *edit* not going to merc someone whose alive by throwing them in a tank unless their unconscious as *edit* b/c once they know they are going to in they are going to kick and scream and do everything they can.

CP: Exactly and the elevator says it all, its not coincidence. Something is going on with that girl, drugs/mental/whatever.

RW: Okay so you've siding on the accidental/suc. death?

CP: yep and for anything a big indicator is how the police play the media, cuz if another tourist girl ends up dead and they didn't say anything well it looks bad on them so if they haven't given out a warning its because they don't believe there is foul play. [Data remove] But the media is just another tool that gets used

 

[Turk February]

I hope whichever law enforcement is in charge of this case fingerprints all those bottles seen in pics that smash the stack posted, looks like a lot of evidence and can look at the graffiti for handwriting samples as the person/perps who may have done this horrible crime might be regular hooligans to that roof! I pray that someone knows something and will have their better conscience speak and come forward to give peace and a closure to Elisa's family. Someone has a clue please come forward Thank You

Unlikely they'll be able to lift fingerprints.

It was raining showers on the day Elisa Lam was discovered in the water tank, and most likely was raining previously in the past two weeks.


Rain would of ruined the fingerprints for a conclusive analysis, and LAPD can't use it as evidence either.

For example, if a hair fiber was washed onto the crime scene by the rain, they can't determine if it was originally there, or came from somewhere else.

Besides, that photo of the liquor bottles I assume was taken days after she was found (or possibly even a long time ago before Lam's disappearance).

It's a lot of variables and I can understand how difficult it is for LE to investigate all these unfortunate variables.

 

[Borris]

I was searching the Cecil Hotel on google maps and wanted to walk it using street view. I put the little man close to the hotel and turned the corner toward the Lobby but the view was blocked by this bus, with its ominous billboard advert.

Freaked me out -- I think I messed up the margins with the large photo.

Let me put a smaller photo up...

 

[Xavier]

Lam's body was located at the bottom of one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, Los Angeles police Sgt. Rudy Lopez said.

The opening at the top of the cistern is too small to accommodate firefighters and equipment, so they had to cut a hole in the storage tank to recover Lam's body.

The cisterns are on a platform at least three metres above the roof.

To get to the tanks, someone would have to go to the top floor then take a staircase with a locked door and emergency alarm preventing roof access.

Another ladder would have to be taken to the platform and a person would have to climb the side of the tank.

Lopez said there are no security cameras on the roof.


IMHO this is an insiders crime...an employee who had the hotel Master Keys and freedom to move around the hotel without being suspected.....Maintenance or Security??

Security/Maintenance has all access, typically have a set of Master keys and know the inside/out of the hotel....and is'nt there a Maintenance Room on the 15th floor? Maybe that's where the ladder came from...



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/20/elisa-lam-missing-found-dead_n_2727407.html

 

[BuzzieCat]

It is confusing, but it's a combination of both. There's a suspect in the hall to the left, and he's got control of the hallway's elevator button. EL has control of the elevator buttons, but she mistakes "HOLD DOOR" for "CLOSE DOOR" and she keeps accidentally holding the doors open.

When EL first enters the elevator, she has control and the doors are about to shut, but she accidentally hits "HOLD DOOR". Then the suspect enters left of the camera, holds the button, and orders her out in the hall.

After shaking her down in the hallway, he allows her back into the elevator and gives her 20-seconds to leave, and she desperately tries to, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button.

After 20-seconds, the suspect hits the hallway button and orders her back out.

Who, in your estimation, is she looking at, gesturing to, or possibly talking to on her right if the assailant is on her left and controlling the elevator buttons on the outside?

 

[Turk February]

Been awhile since I've posted because I'm back to the grind I've tried to catch up but everyone has posted so much I gave up. I know that a lot of you have wondered what the LE think. I brought in the opinions of my friend who worked at SOC, but that is more counter-terrorism, so I know that didn't help much. This time I spoke to a close friend of mine who works as an LE officer in a difference province. I'm hoping this conversation can help you with some of your outstanding questions in regards to how LE may think.

Please keep in mind, I've heavily edited this conversation to appear more sensitive to the subject matter. I've done my best to take out the swearing, etc. This conversation cannot and will not be verified, so you will have to take my word for it. Posters in the very first thread will know my SM expertise, which I am trying to get verified by WS. Oh, and its really long. Sorry

RW: Let me know your initial thoughts?

CP: First it looks like she was trying to hide from someone, then farther into the video shes definitely out of it

RW: Don't you think its strange that if someone was out there, she'd have so much freedom of movement?

CP: Yes, exactly. I think she was on something or from my experience man [Data remove]. It'd be nice to know a bit more about her background too, know what kind of stresses are in her life. Did she break up with a bf/ overworked at school etc, did she drink socially ever use drugs all that stuff.

RW: Good call mate. Apparently according to social media, she was on anti-depressants and all that *edit*. And she was on this trip to Santa Monica by herself to some *edit* farm thing.

CP: There it is right there the depressants. When people misuse or don't use when they need too they going *edit* crazy man. [Data removed].

RW: Hmmm but then how did she get in the tank, no clothes? That's not typical of suicide?

CP: Yea media likes to over complicate stuff, I bet you anti depressants + alcohol or too much anti-dep. No clothes is common - people like to kill themselves naked [Data removed].

RW: In water though?

CP: No that's uncommon but maybe that part was accidental. Shes drugged up takes clothes off cuz shes higher than a kite (thats why u see so many naked people on COPS haha)

RW: Think maybe she went on a trip and ended up 'hiding' in the tank from something?

CP: Could've been I didn't really look at any pics of the tanks or how they opened etc. But if shes so spaced out shes ****ing around in the elevator hiding from whatever hallucinations not hard to believe she somehow falls in a water tank

RW: Yeah just looking over the video with the guys from the office and we don't see any evidence of some dude hiding from the ele cam.

CP: Exactly and if someone was after u and u were truly afraid if the elevator wasnt working ud run ur *advertiser censored* off

RW: Yeah, which is what we argued. You'd never corner yourself.

CP: Yea and remember the media never gets the full the story and people read too much of it, i bet the investigators already know what happened. They will have her medical records, how crazy she was, etc. Like she probably is diagnosed schizo/depression/suicidal. Family and friends and relatives never say that *edit* to the media. They say she was a nice girl good student etc.

RW: So your opinion is that no murder? suicide/accident?

CP: Suicide or accident or at best something got slipped into her drink, but they will treat it like a homicide (which they should) and do a proper investigation just in case. We'd do the same, anything looks a little fishy treat it like a homicide

RW: Oh, what drugs have you seen that will allow someone to keep up like that if you spike a drink? [Data removed]

CP: It's always dependent on the person, like i agree shes walking pretty good not looking like drunk, but sometimes people then all of a sudden hit the wall (which is probably how she drowned) and i was thinking the same racking my brain on what and too be honest when u said anti-depressants makes most sense.

RW: Like not on her meds? Or hit a mental break?

CP: Combine those with alcohol or just an overdose and u see that behaviour. [Data removed] Less likely the trip of a breakdown then, usually that's spur of the moment. I dunno, if i were starting this investigation i want to know the medical history, who she talked to last, what her demeanor was like, and had she been on medication or not

RW: What do you make of the coroners saying that death is inconclusive until tox reports are back? Drowning couldn't be established b/c of body decomp?

CP: That to me means they think she was on something. Well u never know there are always those RARE serial type/ random killing ones and those hardest to for the investigators. Like they'd be doing backgrounds on all this girls friends if she was seen in the hotel with anyone. Like if there was anyone suspicious in that hotel they'd know from video surveillance. And if they believed there was a "random" killer out there theyd release that to public cuz they have a "duty to warn".

RW: Okay, so if they thought this was a murder, they'd have said it?

CP: If they thought it was a Random murder, they would say.

RW: But if it was targeted by someone who wanted a rape/kill, then no?

CP: Basically they have to do a duty to warn if they think anyone else could be in danger. So like if u poison ur girlfriend and we think its suspicious and are looking into it, i don't really have to say to the public that a murderer is out there.

RW: Okay so hypot if the she was killed by a guest or resident of that building, then they would not have to say b/c it could jepo the case?

CP: And that's a tricky one cuz if that's the case that person could pose some risk to someone else in the hotel. So id be releasing a statement saying this may be suspicious, we are warning the public especially women, to watch ur drinks, etc [Data removed]. But because they didn't do that makes me think they are 90% certain its accidental/suicide.

RW: I had it assessed as rape/murder bc of the naked body, but you saying that's common changes my mind.

CP: it still could be ull never solve it off what media gives you [Data remove]. And also maybe its super simple, she finds water tank, oh hey im a bit crazy and feel like a swim, boom rips clothes off, jumps in, oh **** im *edit* and stuck in this tank.

RW: You're sure as *edit* not going to merc someone whose alive by throwing them in a tank unless their unconscious as *edit* b/c once they know they are going to in they are going to kick and scream and do everything they can.

CP: Exactly and the elevator says it all, its not coincidence. Something is going on with that girl, drugs/mental/whatever.

RW: Okay so you've siding on the accidental/suc. death?

CP: yep and for anything a big indicator is how the police play the media, cuz if another tourist girl ends up dead and they didn't say anything well it looks bad on them so if they haven't given out a warning its because they don't believe there is foul play. [Data remove] But the media is just another tool that gets used

Thanks for providing insight from your LE friend.

One question, did your LE friend do any further reseach about the Cecil Hotel, the floor layouts, the elevator panel, Elisa Lam's personality etc. -- or did just see (or heard about the video) as a new person for example just seeing it for the first time without any meta-info about the case?



I've been watching youtube comments for example on the Elisa Lam video and get baffled at all the outrageous theories they come up with that are totally farfetched and illogical as if they haven't done any research on the case.


If anybody believes their word, it just furthers misleads everybody else and that frustrates me a lot especially when those who discredit Elisa Lam's actions without giving her the benefit of the doubt by doing research.

 

[manlet]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JR-GIhT1ZE"]Elisa Lam Mystery Death Case Covert Video - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIFSL9IYeJk"]Elisa Lam Case ~ Body Found In Water Tank At Cecil Hotel - YouTube[/ame]
http://www.youtube.com/user/universalnetworknews (his youtube channel)


This guy has been creating "news" on youtube about Elisa Lam's death since February 6th. He lives in LA and he's also on the sexual offender registry I just discovered thanks to a poster at LunaticOutpost:
http://www.bustedoffenders.com/california/los-angeles/sex-offenders/jeffrey-d-kelly/1869527200022
http://www.sorarchives.com/directory/CA/K/Jeffrey_D_Kelly_1036417

Am I just over-analyzing all of this or is it really effin' weird that he takes such an interest in this case?

 

[librarian12372]

Who killed Elisa Lam?



3/ But why didn´t he just throw her away from the roof? That would quite easy have looked like an suicide. I think he got panic and needed to hide the body as fast as possible without being seen.



Personally, I think using the water tank to hide her body was deliberate; it was someone who resented the staff and patrons of that hotel and took some sick pleasure in knowing people were using the water she was decomposing in. Maybe it is someone angry at the gentrification of the neighborhood and this was one last way to prevent it.

SOrry, I couldn't get the above to quote correctly (edited to say)

 

[four_seasons]

Just wondering, i know someone posted earlier about the video been slowed down and missing seconds on it, has it been verified by anyone? and can someone speed up the video to show the correct speed?

Thanks,

 

[Xavier]

I was searching the Cecil Hotel on google maps and wanted to walk it using street view. I put the little man close to the hotel and turned the corner toward the Lobby but the view was blocked by this bus, with its ominous billboard advert.

Freaked me out -- I think I messed up the margins with the large photo.

Let me put a smaller photo up...

http://s16.postimage.org/9enmg4js5/bus.jpg

Hilarious!!!...Great Find!

 

[BrianTimmons]

That makes sense to me, as does the idea that (if there's a second party), someone also tried to dispose of her ID, etc. (if missing) via the plumbing.

Just a thought...those clothes in the video looked pretty loose-fitting.

If she was in the tank for some time, could the inevitable agitation inside the water tank and decompositon of the body maybe cause any clothing to detach from the body?

Not sure how much suction comes from a tank like that. If she got in incidentally, could some suction have pulled her down and drowned her? Sort of like a riptide?

 

[skyfitsheaven]

Do you have a link? TIA

I read it via that strange "universal news network" guy, so who knows if it's true or if it even still happens. That's the dude who does those "news reports" and who lives around the corner from the Cecil. An odd character (and a registered sex offender), but if anyone would know...it's him.

Also, considering how Skid Row came to be, it wouldn't be a shock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skid_Row,_Los_Angeles

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

Hmmmmmmm

What if the following happened?

1- Elisa and someone else want to go on the roof.
2- They try to open the door, but it causes the alarm to ring.
3- They panick and think they'll be caught, so they go back down to the elevator but the other person stops along the way to find another way.
4- She goes to call the elevator and goes in to stop it by slowing it down (push all buttons + door hold).
5- She waits for the other person to come. She thinks he's playing/hiding because he's not showing up.
6- Person eventually shows up, but tells her they can go through the fire escape.
7- She hesitates thinking it's dangerous.
8- She goes back in and keeps pressing the elevator buttons and door hold to make sure everything has "resetted" and slow the elevator some more.
10- She goes back out and talk again.
11- Finally they go for it.

I think this is quite likely, it would explain why she never pushes the door close button, not even after she comes back a second time.

 

[BunnyHop]

@RW

SBM BBM
"Basically they have to do a duty to warn if they think anyone else could be in danger. So like if u poison ur girlfriend and we think its suspicious and are looking into it, i don't really have to say to the public that a murderer is out there."

I appreciate your comments. However, I respectfully disagree.

I've also been following the cousins case in Iowa. LE has not warned the public Sorry. :twocents:

 

[Robert White]

Thanks for providing insight from your LE friend. One question, did your LE friend do any further reseach about the Cecil Hotel, the floor layouts, the elevator panel, Elisa Lam's personality etc. -- or did just see (or heard about the video) as a new person for example just seeing it for the first time without any meta-info about the case?

Snipped for context, thank you. This was actually a conversation during our off time. He does not have extended knowledge on this case, given his work. The entire conversation is based on what I provided, news sources, and his own analysis of the video. Keep in mind, the conversation is edited, was quite a bit longer. Some things may seem out of place because of it. I can speak for him that he is making these statements based off multiple years on the force, and nothing more.

 

[FiveFelines]

Re: The sex offenders in the building (and the new one mentioned above): They have all been convicted of lewd and lascivious acts on children under age 14. To me, that means they're child rapists/molesters. Doesn't mean they wouldn't go after any easy target, but I wonder if a pedophile would be interested in a 21-year-old woman. Also, the two in the Cecil are 67 and I think almost 90. AT is the 67 yo pedophile pictured in the video of the water. I personally don't see either SO as a suspect, BUT I'd be checking into their close associates/frequent visitors, like the "adopted son" (if he in fact exists).

 

[Fei]

I was searching the Cecil Hotel on google maps and wanted to walk it using street view. I put the little man close to the hotel and turned the corner toward the Lobby but the view was blocked by this bus, with its ominous billboard advert.

Freaked me out -- I think I messed up the margins with the large photo.

Let me put a smaller photo up...

http://s16.postimage.org/9enmg4js5/bus.jpg

Hilarious!!!...Great Find!

And the bus number 7414 sounds like "Go die! Will Die!" in mandarin Chinese...errrr :what: