CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86

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Zuzettem said:
The only info I could find about him was on Doe Network and it doesn't specify this so I don't know. I have already submitted the match and they said that it's new and they will look into it. Maybe his family got him declaraed dead so he's not included in official Canadian missing people bases anymore.
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When you say "I have already submitted the match and they said it's new" ; are you talking about Namus or the Doe Network ?
 
Another possible match. Antonio is missing from Italy, he might have drowned as a result of a car accident. Could anybody who speaks Italian give us a short overview of the video, please?

Antonio Della Rocca​

1711051358668.png

www.raiplay.it

Chi l'ha visto? 2020/21 - La scomparsa di Antonio Della Rocca - 10/02/2021 - Video - RaiPlay

www.raiplay.it www.raiplay.it


Sex: M
Age: 18 (at the time of disappearance)
Height: 175
Eyes: brown
Hair: brown
Disappeared from: Caiazzo (Caserta)
Date of disappearance: 05/24/1979
Publication date: 10/01/2012

Antonio Della Rocca, 18 years old, lives in Caiazzo (Caserta). On 24 May 1979 he left home to go and meet his girlfriend in the hamlet of Villa Santa Croce. His Fiat 500 was found five days later in the Volturno river, a few kilometers away. Inside there was only a gold chain and a shoe.
 
Zuzettem said:
Does anybody know if Carlo Lucas Hernandez has been ever submitted? He either comitted suicide in 1976 or left to start a new life.

View attachment 488523

4866DMBC - Carlo Lucas Hernandez​

Name: Carlo Lucas Hernandez
Case Classification: Missing
Missing Since: June 3, 1976
Location Last Seen: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Physical Description​

Date of Birth: October 18, 1955
Age: 20 yrs
Race: White
Gender: Male
Height: 5'9
Weight: 140 lbs
Hair Color: Brown
Eye Color: Brown
Nickname/Alias: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown

Identifiers​

Dentals: Unknown
Fingerprints: Unknown
DNA: Unknown

Clothing & Personal Items​

Clothing: Green windbreaker, red and white checkered "lumberjack" style shirt, jeans, and a green beret.
Jewelry: Unknown
Additional Personal Items: Unknown

Circumstances of Disappearance​

Last seen at his Vancouver residence on June 3, 1976, Carlo was reported missing after failing to show up for work. Witnesses reported that Carlo had become increasingly depressed in the days leading up to his disappearance and foul play is not suspected in his case.
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I found some more info on Carlo, he was from Phillippines. All info comes from THE 1973 COLLEGIAN VOL. 23 PUBLISHED BY STUDENTS OF VANCOUVER COLLEGE VANCOUVER, B.C.

archive.org

The Collegian, 1973 : Vancouver College : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Yearbook
archive.org

1711341745454.png
 
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jellabiafro said:
Hey. You make so many excellent points, thank you so much for the searching and thinking and writing !

I would say having clothes from Portugal and Spain was a really common thing here in Switzerland back in the 80's and 90's. A lot of fabric and clothes were imported. I had jeans and shirts from Portugal and Spain. I grew up in Switzerland in the 80's.

The spy lead, which I was a little reluctant to consider, is not off the table. Lebanese Christian ? possible. Considering this was the only wealthy enough community to move to Europe during the war (my mom was a lebanese christian). Also, he could have been a swiss spy, we have secret services that are shady af too.

I find it super odd to have found litterally no article mentionning the case, in european press or american one. I have been cruising through archives and all. Not enough closely for now I guess.

About political activism, it is possible too. As you said : red army, red brigades, Palestinian Liberation movements, Action Directe, even Switzerland had a lot of things going on because it was geographically in the center of it. Could've he passed a deal to sell weapons in Switzerland and then suddenly moved ?

About the currents, I've checked the weather and winds that night with data that is still available. It says the ocean was very calm and there was almost no wind, the days before til the 2nd of jan. So I would more aim at the theory that either he didnt know how to swim, either at hypothermia, as you said. Also being drunk/intoxicated you can easily die in the water, even if you're a good swimmer. I heard dreadful stories regarding drowning, even in small pools, when you're under the influence.

About ATM's : as you said, people used it less back in the 80's. In Switzerland, we still travel with a lot of cash with us, and change it by hundreds or so. It's still a common thing to do, Swiss people like using cash and find it more convenient. A lot of my friends don't own a credit card and don't buy online.
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I don't know if he was a spy, but it could have been the opposite situation. Swiss passport is very hard to get, but it is a great passport.

Not only Swiss per se. I Googled "international organizations in Switzerland" and of course, found an amazing number of them. In 1986, before the EU, Geneve was probably way more important than Brussels is today, because headquarters of virtually everything were there.

A very peculiar situation would be a citizen of any European country, non-European even, working in any position, from a secretary to higher up, in any of the international organizations headquartered in Switzerland in 1986. I think their passports were unique, allowing to travel freely worldwide. United Nations (Geneva office), World Trade Organization, World Health organization, international labor organization, part of Red Cross, CERN.. the list is huge. I don't have a link, it is just a Google list.

So he could have been killed for such a passport. With a changed photo and relocated to any other regional center for the same organization, he could have never been listed as "disappeared."

Another situation historically not atypical for 1986 would be a young gay man who left his home and country and moved, possibly to Switzerland, but it could be elsewhere. In 1986, AIDS was very well-known, and the stigma against certain groups, even in Europe, was high. So a man who leaves his (possibly, religious) parents in France, or the Iberian peninsula or Italy, and moves to Switzerland, can easily travel to Malibu for some NY festivities, alone. 1 Swiss franc in 1986 equaled around 1.6 US dollars, so they could travel. He gets killed, for whatever reason, or drowns. And if he severed the ties with the family, no one could be looking for him.
 
What do you think about this match? He could have gotten his ears fixed but his neck looks longer. I think John Doe has really original looking ears so who knows maybe he had a surgery.

Norman Rivet​

Norman Rivet Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM

spvm.qc.ca spvm.qc.ca

1714022125778.png

Person missing since: May 24, 1983​

Missing Person Profile​

Last NameRivet
First NameNorman
Age (at disappearance)21
Year of birth1962
Height180 cm / 5ft-11in
Weight66 kg
Hair colorBrown
Eye colorBrown

Description​

Norman Rivet was last seen on May 24, 1983 in Montreal. Mr. Rivet left his home in the Ville-Émard district. He left a suicide note for his loved ones.
 
jellabiafro said:
I have a strange feeling about this one. When we all thought he was partying hard and probably ended up in the water because of that. The man wasn't wasted. I am really starting to think something real bad happened to him before dying and it wasn't just a simple accident.
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I've never thought this man was partying hard and ended up in the water the way he did. I've always thought he had a plan to get from point A to point B illegally. I still maintain this man jumped off a ship he was working on and didn't take into consideration just how far he was from shore, how rough the swells were and the temperature of the ocean. I still believe what he had around his neck were the most basic of his belongings that he didn't want to get wet; likely a passport and any other type of documentation or identification he would need to get a job in the US.

If he MacGyvered something to tie around his neck from a shirt or jersey to hold the plastic bag he could have just made a bag out of whatever he tied around his neck by knotting a sleeve or the bottom of the jersey but he used a plastic bag which suggests to me whatever he had in the bag was something he didn't want to get wet. It doesn't matter if money gets wet, it doesn't dissolve or disintegrate, so he kept his money in that moleskin bag that was tucked into his pocket. So he had two different types of paper: one that needed to keep dry and one that could be dried out later.

I know that commercial fishing vessels or really any type of commercial vessel can give their employees time off on shore but a lot of it depends on where the individuals are from and what country they are in. Many workers from South East Asia would be considered a security risk by going ashore and not returning in this day and age. Also, depending on whatever a ship was carrying, the ship may never dock and the cargo is offloaded onto other marine vessels.

I don't think this JD would have been a security risk by absconding unless he had a criminal past that would have put the kibosh on him going ashore legally. However, maritime laws do vary and what could be considered a no brainer with certain types of employment on land: theft, assault, etc. might pass muster on a ship.

I've been thinking about those two identical lacerations under his eyebrows and wonder whether he was wearing glasses when he went into the water and he had them secured around his head and the impact of hitting the water bent the frames to cause the hinges to hit and injure him.

This is not a long thread, currently only 15 pages, unlike some that are on their 92nd thread at 50 pages each. So I'm not sure how arduous it could be to familiarize yourself with the details of this John Doe. We could then put to bed the issue of Mr. Python being a match.

I tend to go with Occam's Razor when sifting through the details given, so Portuguese-made clothing suggest he was Portuguese or at least had visited Europe. He carried Swiss francs, that could suggest either someone who worked on a ship where you got paid in Swiss francs. The clean rubber soled shoes suggest they were worn on a boat deck not land, and in an attempt to have both hands free while swimming ashore he tied his belongings around his own neck.
 
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branmuffin said:
I've never thought this man was partying hard and ended up in the water the way he did. I've always thought he had a plan to get from point A to point B illegally. I still maintain this man jumped off a ship he was working on and didn't take into consideration just how far he was from shore, how rough the swells were and the temperature of the ocean. I still believe what he had around his neck were the most basic of his belongings that he didn't want to get wet; likely a passport and any other type of documentation or identification he would need to get a job in the US.

If he MacGyvered something to tie around his neck from a shirt or jersey to hold the plastic bag he could have just made a bag out of whatever he tied around his neck by knotting a sleeve or the bottom of the jersey but he used a plastic bag which suggests to me whatever he had in the bag was something he didn't want to get wet. It doesn't matter if money gets wet, it doesn't dissolve or disintegrate, so he kept his money in that moleskin bag that was tucked into his pocket. So he had two different types of paper: one that needed to keep dry and one that could be dried out later.

I know that commercial fishing vessels or really any type of commercial vessel can give their employees time off on shore but a lot of it depends on where the individuals are from and what country they are in. Many workers from South East Asia would be considered a security risk by going ashore and not returning in this day and age. Also, depending on whatever a ship was carrying, the ship may never dock and the cargo is offloaded onto other marine vessels.

I don't think this JD would have been a security risk by absconding unless he had a criminal past that would have put the kibosh on him going ashore legally. However, maritime laws do vary and what could be considered a no brainer with certain types of employment on land: theft, assault, etc. might pass muster on a ship.

I've been thinking about those two identical lacerations under his eyebrows and wonder whether he was wearing glasses when he went into the water and he had them secured around his head and the impact of hitting the water bent the frames to cause the hinges to hit and injure him.

This is not a long thread, currently only 15 pages, unlike some that are on their 92nd thread at 50 pages each. So I'm not sure how arduous it could be to familiarize yourself with the details of this John Doe. We could then put to bed the issue of Mr. Python being a match.

I tend to go with Occam's Razor when sifting through the details given, so Portuguese-made clothing suggest he was Portuguese or at least had visited Europe. He carried Swiss francs, that could suggest either someone who worked on a ship where you got paid in Swiss francs. The clean rubber soled shoes suggest they were worn on a boat deck not land, and in an attempt to have both hands free while swimming ashore he tied his belongings around his own neck.
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Idk, I'm skeptical that he jumped in the water with his jeans and shoes on. He could have put at least the shoes in the bag.
 
caradana said:
I think the world is rapidly solving this, and if it hasn’t been picked up by a lab yet, this is a moment of Websleuths advocacy to be made. :) Are you willing to get behind that?
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Referring this question to @jellabiafro because they have taken this UID under their wing.

Is there DNA available? Have you reached out to any forensic genealogy companies?
 
azure said:
Idk, I'm skeptical that he jumped in the water with his jeans and shoes on. He could have put at least the shoes in the bag.
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I agree that he could have been getting to the shore from a ship illegally, maybe in a lifeboat with paddles, but at the same time I think that he didn't expect that he will end up in the water. I can't imagine swimming in the ocean in winter, wearing jeans, heavy tennis shoes on thick sole and getting my glasses wet.
 
If the deceased is from Europe I think our chances of finding out who he is will be pretty remote. Interpol is now using DNA to identify JD's but there doesn't seem to be the eager participation in providing DNA in Europe like there is in North America.
 
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