Canada - Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #4 **ARREST**

[Massasauga Rattler]

What I'm confused about is how LE can be 100% certain the remains are TB's if they were incinerated in a machine like that. Certainly there would be nothing left except possible minute pieces of bone or teeth.

I suppose the only thing that might have survived intact is his ring.

HOWEVER, LE also said forensics had not been involved yet. If forensics were not involved yet (as stated clearly in the press conference), what would police be doing filtering through ash remains? Certainly if they were not forensic experts, than they highly risked contaminating evidence and blowing the case.

I just can't believe they can say with 100% certainty that the remains are TB's without forensics experts doing the examination.

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd welcome an explanation. I wonder if this statement of confirmation will come to haunt the prosecution in this case. I'm sure the defense was taking notes about that.

 

[tlzzdavis]

omg i want the same as everyone on here!! it is rude to insinuate otherwise and if you feel i am in some way involved lol report me! omg. All i am saying is we do not know if the pic people speak of that we saw as a fbk friend of DM is actually him with CN. Also she we should not be discussing anyone that we do not know of...all i am saying is CN is Ukrainian not Asian....and the person she is hugging may not be DM so we should not be concluding that but if he is indeed engaged to someone that is interesting...that was all i said. As for if i know people or not is not relevant....but for the record i do not know DM and i certainly want justice and i am offended with your comment.

It was not meant as offensive! Meant to steer us in the correct direction. And I only say that because you do seem to know some of the names being thrown around. I was seeing if you were dropping hints. Sorry to offend you!

 

[ExiledRed]

And/or burn vehicle parts in an obscure, rural location.

It was a livestock incinerator according to various sleuthers on here.

As an ex-welder I dont think throwing steel parts into one of those things is going to be very efficient or discreet. It takes an awful lot of energy and heat to incinerate steel and you're only going to melt it temporarily before it cools and solidifies again. The smoke and ozone from such a process would be quite noxious too.

That portable incinerator would not be up to the job.

 

[Kimster]

What I'm confused about is how LE can be 100% certain the remains are TB's if they were incinerated in a machine like that. Certainly there would be nothing left except possible minute pieces of bone or teeth.

I suppose the only thing that might have survived intact is his ring.

HOWEVER, LE also said forensics had not been involved yet. If forensics were not involved yet (as stated clearly in the press conference), what would police be doing filtering through ash remains? Certainly if they were not forensic experts, than they highly risked contaminating evidence and blowing the case.

I just can't believe they can say with 100% certainty that the remains are TB's without forensics experts doing the examination.

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd welcome an explanation. I wonder if this statement of confirmation will come to haunt the prosecution in this case. I'm sure the defense was taking notes about that.

Here's an article on how they identify burnt remains: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/health/burned-body-id

 

[meadsipper]

The scene would be secured, forensics unit and the local coroner would arrive to examine, make notes and determine evidence.

 

[SnooperDuper]

What I'm confused about is how LE can be 100% certain the remains are TB's if they were incinerated in a machine like that. Certainly there would be nothing left except possible minute pieces of bone or teeth.

I suppose the only thing that might have survived intact is his ring.

HOWEVER, LE also said forensics had not been involved yet. If forensics were not involved yet (as stated clearly in the press conference), what would police be doing filtering through ash remains? Certainly if they were not forensic experts, than they highly risked contaminating evidence and blowing the case.

I just can't believe they can say with 100% certainty that the remains are TB's without forensics experts doing the examination.

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd welcome an explanation. I wonder if this statement of confirmation will come to haunt the prosecution in this case. I'm sure the defense was taking notes about that.

I think what they said was "due to the totality of the evidence..."
Could be rings, fillings, teeth, the metal in TB's workboots, the location found together led LE to declare TB found

 

[meadsipper]

It was a livestock incinerator according to various sleuthers on here.

As an ex-welder I dont think throwing steel parts into one of those things is going to be very efficient or discreet. It takes an awful lot of energy and heat to incinerate steel and you're only going to melt it temporarily before it cools and solidifies again. The smoke and ozone from such a process would be quite noxious too.

That portable incinerator would not be up to the job.

I am referring to burnable parts ie carpet, upholstery, foam, etc.

 

[Researchnut]

This doesn't make sense to me. Why would the ground beneath the incinerator be scorched? The burning chamber of an incinerator, where the burning takes place, would be well off the ground and I wouldn't think that that part of it would come into contact with the ground at all.

Perhaps they had tried to burn the body without the use of an incinerator initially but were concerned about attracting attention due to smoke caused by such (like a big bonfire)....so they decided to finish the job with an incinerator?

They burn at VERY hot temperatures in order to dispose of pigs etc. Could possibly scorch the ground. Someone else asked if they come with the trailer attached. Yes they do. Also, in he picture that was posted there is absolutely no vegetation on it such as falling leaves or twigs on it. It looks as if it was not there for long.JMO

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Here's an article on how they identify burnt remains: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/health/burned-body-id

Yes, BUT that is a job for forensics, which LE stated categorically had not been involved yet.

 

[tlzzdavis]

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[Kimster]

Please tell me what this has to do with finding the suspect??? why are people dwelling on gruesome details that have nothing to do with locating the people involved. This site went from being proactive and investigative to talking about the smell of burning human flesh and incinerators. I am sorry but how is this helping solve the case? There are other people out there who are responsible and we need to locate them. i know everyone feels the same but i hope tomorrow we can get some good info and help this case out...we all want the same end result. its been a hard day for all of us i suspect. second suspect....who is it....

This is a discussion board and different people like to discuss different aspects of the case. If some are discussing something you're not interested in, like forensics, then please scroll on by. :tyou:

 

[Kimster]

Yes, BUT that is a job for forensics, which LE stated categorically had not been involved yet.

There's an article that stated law enforcement identified the remains themselves? Do we have a link on that? How odd.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I think what they said was "due to the totality of the evidence..."
Could be rings, fillings, teeth, the metal in TB's workboots, the location found together led LE to declare TB found

Again, a job for forensics, which were not brought in yet. If the regular LE folks tried to identify ash and charred remains on their own, they really risk:

(1) contaminating evidence

(2) being wrong


I get the "totality of evidence" thing, but police almost never ever dare say 100% until forensics can give their analysis.

This is very strange. The only thing I'm thinking as a possibility is that some body parts were not yet incinerated, and those parts clearly proved it was TB

 

[randomcdn]

Please tell me what this has to do with finding the suspect??? why are people dwelling on gruesome details that have nothing to do with locating the people involved. This site went from being proactive and investigative to talking about the smell of burning human flesh and incinerators. I am sorry but how is this helping solve the case? There are other people out there who are responsible and we need to locate them. i know everyone feels the same but i hope tomorrow we can get some good info and help this case out...we all want the same end result. its been a hard day for all of us i suspect. second suspect....who is it....

Second suspect could be anyone and there may not be an online connection to be found or uncovered. It sounds like DM went through a lot of change in the last year and with his best friend cleared, is he running with a new crowd? It may not be someone his other friends would know.

 

[Researchnut]

Please tell me what this has to do with finding the suspect??? why are people dwelling on gruesome details that have nothing to do with locating the people involved. This site went from being proactive and investigative to talking about the smell of burning human flesh and incinerators. I am sorry but how is this helping solve the case? There are other people out there who are responsible and we need to locate them. i know everyone feels the same but i hope tomorrow we can get some good info and help this case out...we all want the same end result. its been a hard day for all of us i suspect. second suspect....who is it....

It has been a horrible day.
Finding out who put that incinerator there and when ,can lead to possible suspects.Everyone here loves to take apart each clue,even the incinerator.Gross ,but you never know what might lead to a new lead for any of us.

 

[randomcdn]

There's an article that stated law enforcement identified the remains themselves? Do we have a link on that? How odd.

In the 2:30 presser LE said they were convinced by the totality of the evidence that they had found Tim. He refused to speculate on cause of death pending the coroner's examination.

 

[Claroon]

Please tell me what this has to do with finding the suspect??? why are people dwelling on gruesome details that have nothing to do with locating the people involved. This site went from being proactive and investigative to talking about the smell of burning human flesh and incinerators. I am sorry but how is this helping solve the case? There are other people out there who are responsible and we need to locate them. i know everyone feels the same but i hope tomorrow we can get some good info and help this case out...we all want the same end result. its been a hard day for all of us i suspect. second suspect....who is it....

I think perhaps the question was asked as one more piece of hope that Tim might be alive and this was someone else.

 

[randomcdn]

Again, a job for forensics, which were not brought in yet. If the regular LE folks tried to identify ash and charred remains on their own, they really risk:

(1) contaminating evidence

(2) being wrong


I get the "totality of evidence" thing, but police almost never ever dare say 100% until forensics can give their analysis.

This is very strange. The only thing I'm thinking as a possibility is that some body parts were not yet incinerated, and those parts clearly proved it was TB

You don't think clothing or jewelry would be enough in a situation like this where it's unlikely to be someone else?

 

[Claroon]

And perhaps some link can be made between someone who has had an incinerator stolen, someone who may have been seen transporting one, someone who might have sold someone one. So a few of these questions may be helpful in narrowing down a perpetrator. But perhaps we would be better off praying for God to keep us all safe and to reveal the next piece of information to the puzzle so that the madness can end. And to keep the police officers/investigators strong.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Here's an article on how they identify burnt remains: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/health/burned-body-id

If a body were burned in an incinerator, my understanding from reading is that the temperatures involved are similar if not higher than those used in a crematorium...so I would think that things like jewelry and metal fillings are going to have melted into nothing. And in the CNN article, I'm guessing they're referring more to burned bodies that are burned by methods OTHER than those burned in a crematorium-like manner. There's once excerpt in that article that even makes mention of this.

I think there's a huge difference between a body burned up in, say a house fire, than one that is burned up in an incinerator that is designed to maintain a constant high heat (that seems to be something that the ads and videos of the manufacturers of these devices speak to as being one of their benefits). In a house fire, or say a vehicle fire, the burn area is not generally as contained as it would be inside of a concrete lined incinerator drum and therefore the burn temps would be a lot less and a lot less consistent.

That being said, it's my understanding from reading up on cremation (as my dear uncle passed of cancer over a year ago and until him we'd never had a family member opt for cremation and this pre-arranged choice of his was very upsetting to my Mom/his sister), even at such high sustained temps, the bones do not disintegrate (which is really amazing) such that they are "ground up" and mixed with the ash and that is what the 'cremains' are.

I guess that they can do DNA testing on the bones, however. But wouldn't that take a lot longer than it would have taken them to confirm the remains were TB?

I would also think that at such high temps inside an incinerator, that any clothing or metal (belt buckle, steel inside work boots, etc) would be melted into nothing.