Identified! Canada - Vancouver, 2 WhtMale Brothers, 7-10, "Babes in the Woods", Jan'53 - Derek and David D’Alton

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You are correct Hollow, they don't appear to have been buried. I reread the Doe Network report and it just says covered.

I think I remember this story from my youth, but I could be confusing it with another crime. My mom was a true crime reader and would often have the True Detective magazine around (I think that was the name) but we weren't allowed to even look at it because "It wasn't for kids".

Once, when I was about 11, I stole it (Wow! Was she mad!) and read about a similiar case - so I figured that was why she didn't want me to read the magazine, because it was about hurting kids.

She explained that no, most of the time it had nothing to do with kids but the pictures were graphic and she didn't think I needed to learn about those things, as it would give me nightmares
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Sorry I confused the issue. The boys were not buried.
 
PonderingThings said:
You are correct Hollow, they don't appear to have been buried. I reread the Doe Network report and it just says covered.

I think I remember this story from my youth, but I could be confusing it with another crime. My mom was a true crime reader and would often have the True Detective magazine around (I think that was the name) but we weren't allowed to even look at it because "It wasn't for kids".

Once, when I was about 11, I stole it (Wow! Was she mad!) and read about a similiar case - so I figured that was why she didn't want me to read the magazine, because it was about hurting kids.

She explained that no, most of the time it had nothing to do with kids but the pictures were graphic and she didn't think I needed to learn about those things, as it would give me nightmares
eek.gif


Sorry I confused the issue. The boys were not buried.
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...And look at you now, following in mom's footsteps:angel:
 
Yes well when I became an adult I was allowed to read the true crime books! Maybe its an inherited gene?
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I'm just wondering why Honeybourn is so certain the woman killed her boys. What evidence does he have to support this? I know it happens but I'm loath to believe the woman killed her boys, and in such a brutal fashion. Also while I understand Honeybourn's desire to give the boys a proper burial, I'm a little bothered that he cremated the remains. Those are still evidence in a homicide. I know it's unlikely at this point that the killer will be caught and tried, but there is always that chance. I think the skulls should have been kept intact.
 
I wish the cremation hadn't taken place also. I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned new reconstructions and that can't happen now.
Maybe the mother had a boyfriend who wanted to get rid of the kids? She could have gotten hooked up with a control freak who used her as a meal ticket. However, I don't discount the chance that a mother could do that. Others have, such as Diane Downs.
 
Hollow said:
My thinking is, if this womans shoe (one shoe?) was left behind, why would she do that? Makes me think there was a struggle, that she lost it. Would she leave her coat if it was cold, even to cover her sons??? Seems like you wouldn't want to lose a necessity like a coat, just thinking out loud on the computer.
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Why would a killer leave anything self incriminating behind at the scene? I have a feeling that the boys were murdered in front of the mother, she covered them with her coat/cape and was then taken a short distance from the scene and was herself murdered.
 
I agree with you Richard. And a shoe is a strange thing to deliberately leave behind. What kind of shoe was it, I wonder. That might tell us something about the mother. Was it a nice shoe, was it cheap, etc?

Also, how do we know that the woman was in trouble for Vagrancy C, prostitution. The doe network write up says she simply told the man who picked her up that she was in trouble for vagrancy. She could have been homeless. Why does Honeybourn think it was prostitution?
 
I thought it could be simply vagrancy also, as I stated in an earlier post, the law seemed really big at the time in charging people with this (mostly men). I think, because of all of the poverty at the time, alot were homeless. The shoe issue confuses me, did they find one child's shoe and one woman's shoe? Or do they not know who the one they found belonged to? I agree, I don't think this woman was responsible for killing her children, I think she was there though.
 
You know, I just came across the vast difference of life in that era, and this one. I started to post that finding the name of the mother shouldn't be difficult with the fact that they had at least two points of reference- the LE records and the school records to compare. But then :doh: I realized that it is all paper records! And after this many years, locating just the right records, for the right time period, the right address, and the immensness of the job! So happy records are computerized now!
 
Great news, I e-mailed Mr Honeybourn and he said he would like to join the discussion here. I gave him the link, so hopefully....:blushing:
 
I don't know if Mr. Honeybourn has tried to join yet or not, I hope he doesn't have free e-mail, which will prevent him from doing so. He said " I will join the discussion" so I have to assume he has every intention of doing just that. Wanted to say, he told me via e-mail that at the end of February he may have additional information concerning some expansion of the babes in the woods dna profile. He also stated that the woman's shoe found at the scene was red and it was a pump type with a very small heel.
 
Mr Honeybourn did join, coincidentally enough, his screenname on here is , you guessed it, Brian Honeybourn. He said anyone that has any questions can contact him.
 
as the last offical investigator of this double homicide i can tell all that some of the information posted is crap . the MISSION city lead and the GRANT family as well as NELLIE SCOTT have all beeb cleared with out any doubt. I do have a couple of things i am now considering even though i am retired as i have a copy of the file i keep plugging away at it
 
Hello Brian! Thanks for joining us.

Your lead that you speak of. Is it something our members might be able to help track down?

Also, I'm assuming that people arrived in Vancouver from other countries other than the U.S. and Canada back then. Is there any possibility that they arrived as workers, or from a ship?
 
in reply to some of the thoughts spoken without any knowledge 1 of course DR DAVID SWEET and i kept part of each remains as biological samples for court purposes as well as for future science and then i cremated the rest. as to what of the childrens remains we kept good luch cause neither DAVID or I will tell anyone and we have a solem pact on that unless you can demonstrate a very good reason that you should know 2 as to the mother been a prostitute there were indicators that the woman in the MISSION city lead NELLIE SCOTT was involved in prostitution now that that is cleared there is no other indication that the mother probably the killer was a prostitute 3 the assumtion that the killer was probably the mother is based primaril on the ladies shoe left behind as well as the kids covered up with a cheap fur coat which also happens to be a womans coat 4 the kids both had a different father and we did not rcieve any missing reports from a mother looking for her 2 boys other than this who knows
 
everyone stop calling me MR honeybourn my name is BRIAN and i am only 58 years old i only retired cause i had 32 years 6 months service and was away passed retirement staus. i would have retired sooner except that i was sent off to KOSOVO with the CANADIAN forensic TEAM and yes i loved my job and miss it terribly
 
regarding your query could they have been from ships yes this was just after ww2 so they could have come from anywhere and probably did come from out of the region
 
Thank you for your reply Brian!

And if I may say so, 58 is certainly not old!
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Ok enough flirting!
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I realise that this time period was an incredibly different world to now. I'm wondering if any official immigration records were available to be checked for an arrival around that time period?

Or for any family who had sent their two boys "back home".

In the days before computers it was probably not possible to check this info... still, I wonder....
 
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