CO - Civil Rape Trial of Kobe Bryant (Charges Dropped)

I think the text messages are going to be revealing and am surprised they have not previously surfaced. The new revelation of two types of semen found inside the woman's vaginal cavity, if true, may send the case in a whole new direction or bring it to an abrupt halt. If false, defense attorneys are going to be fighting to retain their licenses to practice law. The most compelling facts against Kobe are his 30 second hesitation when asked in a taped police interview if the victim ever said "no," and questionable circumstances with at least 3 other women in the past. I really have to wonder why a man in Kobe's position, with a seemingly perfect life, wife, reputation and public career, would allow himself to be alone in a room with a female stranger. Didn't he ever see 'Fatal Attraction'? Peace, trbg
 
I don't see what the big deal is, from the beginning we knew she had been with another man after Kobe, that's why they were fighting to bring up her mental history, no normal woman would get raped and immediate seek another lover to get over it.

any normal man finding out their lover had been raped would be grabbing the shotgun and tracking down the man...

I doubt he even knew she had been with Kobe, and if he did, helped her make a plan to blackmale Kobe...

it backfired when the police became involved and now she is trapped with no where to run.

Lucky she has some redneck cops and judges helping to keep her covered...

were these cops involved in the Ramsey case?
 
Jack,

If the girl had never reported the rape by Kobe Bryant then there never would have been a need to "sacrifice his reputation to save hers." If no one had known about the encounter (he certainly wasn't going to tell anyone) then her reputation would never be an issue at all ...at least not as it relates to national media or to Kobe Bryant. In fact, her reputation has been smeared because she came forward.

And I can't imagine ANYONE would be dim enough to believe a girl gets up in the morning with a guy at her place, tells someone she was raped, and people actually believe it! Why would she later need to confess? Who would have been dumb enough to believe it in the first place? Certainly not any policeman. Did she think they would all accept the circumstances as normal... like maybe after her rape she invited the rapist to stay and get some sleep? If her family was that gullible she wouldn't have had to make up a story that involved sex at all. She could have told them he was repairing the toaster so she could have breakfast.

Jayson Williams did not have that bad boy NBA image either. And maybe the shooting of Gus Kristofi was just a freak accident. But that doesn't explain wiping down a gun and attempting to put it in the hands of a man not even dead yet, and still moaning, just to get his prints on it and save your own hiney... (and making this action the priority on the to-do list before calling 911.) And it doesn't explain blowing away your own dog with a shotgun because you lost a bet and believe that loss must be the fault of an animal that couldn't possibly have reasoned such a plan to embarass you.

By all reports Jayson Williams is a good husband, a good father, and a respected community member. He got along well with teammates... he volunteered time for community children... he gave away big bucks to charities... he didn't involve himself in scandals... he had a great sense of humor like the class clown. Yet... somewhere inside him he obviously had a "dark side" (for lack of a better term) that failed to deal with many issues. Unfortunately those issues co-mingled with firearms... something he possessed in obvious excess yet failed to ever respect or handle responsibly, despite having once been charged for a firearm incident. But the most interesting aspect, psychologically, that came out in his trial (just in my opinion of course) was the fact that TWELVE MEN were present in Jayson's home that night and all of them were aware of what had happened... even those that hadn't actually witnessed the shooting. And every single one of them, from his best long term buddies to men who barely knew him, LIED for him in their original statements. They disregarded the legal implications for themselves... even when they had played no role whatsoever in the shooting... to protect Jayson Williams. WHO wields that kind of power, charisma and influence over such a large group of people? Not even the president... I guarantee. But pro athletes do.

Kobe Bryant doesn't carry that bad boy image either. He seemed "squeaky clean" perhaps... but we now know his relatively recent marriage vows... to a gorgeous charming woman... meant very little to him. If this encounter was not a rape, it also wasn't the first of its kind, since at least one other girl has come forward to say he was with her but didn't force himself on her. Being a serial cheater doesn't make one a rapist obviously. But I believe, truly, the problem with pro athletes of high dollar status isn't so much that they have criminal tendencies toward acting foolish with guns or committing rape. I believe they slowly adapt a psyche of total entitlement. No one can tell them what to do and the rules stop applying to them. They can afford any whim and adoring people enforce their belief that they are superior and untouchable. They cannot imagine anyone who would not want to totally submit to their will... just as Jayson Williams had no doubt that all twelve men would lie to protect him, simply because he told them to. They rarely come across a person who sees them as simply another person and holds them to the same standards as any other "average joe". If this girl is telling 100% of the truth... I believe there is a possibility that Kobe Bryant really doesn't see his actions as a rape at all. The sense of entitlement is so strong that he believes he had every right to do just what he felt like doing regardless of whether the girl's intentions ended with some casual kissing. He most likely felt that after the fact she would feel honored to have been "chosen" to make him happy at the moment, and be forever in his debt for the priviledge of knowing him. I'm quite sure he is shocked that a woman who does not feel that way even exists.
 
Rocky said:
I don't see what the big deal is, from the beginning we knew she had been with another man after Kobe, that's why they were fighting to bring up her mental history, no normal woman would get raped and immediate seek another lover to get over it.

No... they were seeking her medical history (that also includes mental health history) to verify as fact that she has suicide attempts in her past. They originally were given this information by acquaintances of the victim. There may be indications of other mental health issues there as well... such as claims made that she is bi polar or that she suffered depression in the past. But it has nothing to do with whether or not she is a "normal" woman. No one's medical records should ever become fair game for some attorney to dig through attempting to find something to discredit any person who makes a claim of victimization. Are Kobe Bryant's medical records from the past that don't pertain to this incident available for the prosecution to attempt to manipulate? Of course not. If the woman had made a false claim of victimization in the past... that would be relevent. It would also be available through other avenues unrelated to medical records. Women who have fragile psychological make-up are MORE likely to be victimized so what would prior mental health issues prove? It is simply an attempt to smear the victim's character and deflect attention away from the one crime at hand. And who defines normal behavior after a sexual assault?

any normal man finding out their lover had been raped would be grabbing the shotgun and tracking down the man...

The frontier mentality of grabbing a shotgun and going after the guy who just raped "your woman" only happens on television. Any NORMAL man? There is a astronomical amount of reported rapes that occur in the US, and how many cases of gun toting "heros" do we read about? Are 99.9% of husbands and partners of raped women "abnormal" then? That's absurd... especially considering that the man being accused is a pro athlete surrounded by security. Some guy is just going to grab a gun and go defend this girl's honor? What planet do you live on? If you THINK that is how you would react... wait until (God forbid) it happens to your wife or daughter or girlfriend. You will feel just as helpless to do anything but wait on justice as anyone else in that situation. EVERYBODY with testosterone... and some without... rants how they would extract their own justice "if it were them"... mostly because it isn't them. In fact there are very very few cases of vigilante revenge, and none of those ever end up being productive for anybody involved.

I doubt he even knew she had been with Kobe, and if he did, helped her make a plan to blackmale Kobe...

it backfired when the police became involved and now she is trapped with no where to run.

Kobe Bryant never claimed the girl first attempted to blackmail him. In fact he claimed at first he hadn't even had sex with her. (I guess he remembered the DNA issue and thought better of that answer.)

Nobody goes to the police and makes a false sexual assault claim and THEN tries blackmail. :doh: That's ridiculous. The police didn't accidentally become involved... as if she was unwilling to jeopardize her blackmail plan and then "damn those cops for reading her mind and paying her a visit."

Lucky she has some redneck cops and judges helping to keep her covered...

were these cops involved in the Ramsey case?

I'm actually surprised as well, considering the proximity to Boulder, that any police involved knew what to do. My father used to say that even a blind hog finds an acorn once in awhile. :D However, I highly doubt Golden, Colorado can be considered "redneck" since they tend to be environment oriented democrats. And I find it unlikely they are out to lynch the evil NBA star and feel compelled to involve even the judge in their conspiracy of injustice.
 
This case is a real lightening rod and a personal one for me. We used to have an area specifically dedicated to this case. I, in fact, shared something very personal that I later thought about with some regret and hesitation. I don't know for certain what happened in that hotel room but my gut tells me that she did begin to resist and that Kobe probably pressed on. I think many of you would be surprised if you knew how many of the women you know have actually been raped and never went forward to authorities. This is absolutely a crime where the victim is shamed and most times looked at with skepticism. Has anyone here read the book by the author who wrote 'The Lovely Bones'? It is her personal account of being raped in college and what it was like to press charges and go to trial. Should be required reading, IMO. And BAbcat, right on girl. L
 
Hi Lcookster,
I have read both of Alice Sebold's books. I think you meant 'Lucky' should be required reading, this is the book about Sebold's rape. 'Lovely Bones' is about a 14 year old who describes how she was killed and then watched over her family from Heaven. Both excellent books. Peace, trbg
 
Babcat said:
Jack,

If the girl had never reported the rape by Kobe Bryant then there never would have been a need to "sacrifice his reputation to save hers." If no one had known about the encounter (he certainly wasn't going to tell anyone) then her reputation would never be an issue at all ...at least not as it relates to national media or to Kobe Bryant. In fact, her reputation has been smeared because she came forward.

You forget that she was in his room, at a hotel where she worked. People probably noticed that she didn't go out to her car and leave when her shift was over but instead went to a guest's room. If she had run from his room to the safety of her co-workers and had them call police I would have an easier time believing her story. Evidently several of her coworkers saw her and didn't notice anything wrong. Maybe the co-worker (the one she told about the alleged rape and who followed her home that evening) whom she spoke to afterwards made a comment to her about how he disapproved of her being in Kobe's room for whatever reason, or maybe others snickered about why she was still there and reminded her about policy against visiting guest's rooms, that could have been enough to sacrifice Kobe's reputation to save hers. People under pressure do all sorts of irrational things.


Babcat said:
And I can't imagine ANYONE would be dim enough to believe a girl gets up in the morning with a guy at her place, tells someone she was raped, and people actually believe it! Why would she later need to confess? Who would have been dumb enough to believe it in the first place? Certainly not any policeman. Did she think they would all accept the circumstances as normal... like maybe after her rape she invited the rapist to stay and get some sleep? If her family was that gullible she wouldn't have had to make up a story that involved sex at all. She could have told them he was repairing the toaster so she could have breakfast.

When the guy left, in a hurry as you might expect, she just immediately started saying that he had forced himself on her and wouldn't leave, and think God they showed up when they did or who knows what else may have happened... She was believed by many, including the police. It was only after the investigator started interviewing the people who were around that night did they realize her story wasn't adding up and confronted her about it. Had she not been confronted she may have never told the truth. Kinda like how if the police hadn't confronted Susan Smith she probably wouldn't have told the truth either about who killed her kids.

Women are just like men, some are good and some are bad. There is reason to believe, from her past actions and her actions immediately after this alleged rape that this woman may not be telling the truth. Since there is a person's reputation and quality of life on the line I believe that any and all information about this woman should be scrutinized and she should be questioned as to her truthfulness. If in the end it appears to a jury that Kobe Bryant committed rape then so be it, but he should have every chance to prove his innocence made available to him. Don't get me wrong, if she had been walking down the street minding her own business and Kobe jumped out and grabbed her I'd be PO'ed that the defence was questioning her motive and her past because it wouldn't be relevant, but since the situation isn't so cut and dry then it has to be handled in a different manner.
 
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB25K88BVD.html

"The judge in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case on Thursday rejected arguments by the NBA star's attorneys that the state's rape-shield law is unconstitutional.
The rape-shield law, which has withstood other challenges since it was enacted in the mid-1970s, generally bars defense attorneys from using information about the sexual history of alleged assault victims. "
 
I heard it said on a talk show that people on the West Coast, especially L.A., have a much more supportive attitude towards Kobe than elsewhere. Lakers fans. Actor Jack Nickleson screaming support. I caught the ending of the game before last night and I have to admit I could see why. Kobe was hot, scoring points, and I don't even watch baseball (just kidding, I knew it was a hockey game...). Seriously, when Kobe was interviewed live as he was leaving the court I couldn't help wondering what would happen if the reporter asked him a question about the trial. I just got the feeling it was understood that should never happen. It was all about the game. Kobe was going about his job and the crowd showed wild support, as if nothing pending outside the arena existed. Just an observation I wanted to share. I hope discussions about this case increase as trial nears. I'm at a loss as to why there is so little interest in this particular case on websleuths. Peace, beatlegirl
 
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBLDNIHLVD.html

" A judge has granted Kobe Bryant's attorneys access to cell phone text messages sent among three people - including the woman accusing the NBA star of rape - in the hours after the alleged attack.
"The materials contain information that is relevant for discovery," state District Judge Terry Ruckriegle said in a decision released Thursday.

He ordered Bryant's defense team and Eagle County prosecutors to keep the messages and an accompanying letter from AT&T Wireless Communications sealed for now. Legal experts said the judge could rule later that the material is not relevant to the case. "
 
I had no idea who Kobe was,don't like sports and have a negative attitude towards "professional players" and am ,from personal expirence,very "pro-victim" in rape cases but i have felt from the get go something was "wrong" in this case.Once I found out about the "dirty" underwear and the rape kit showing semen NOT KB's as well as a WHITE mans hair that sealed it (then reading the interviews with her friends telling how she bragged about what shed do with the "settlement money" as well the pics of her drunk in a bar in Canada ,hanging on other guys RIGHT BEFORE trial started was just the "icing on the cake").


I belive Kobe and the "AV" had sex (not rape) and she either felt rejected ,and due to her alleged problems,wanted "revenge" OR this was a plot to get money/attention.


SHAME ON HER! If it is indeed proven shes the liar I think she is (and I think the text messages prove it)I hope she gets charged as she has forever tainted KB,even if she came out and admitted she lied,he will forever have that following him around.



I am very pro-LE and usually fairly pro-Pros. but I think ,unfortunately in this case,they "leaped before looked" in a rush to nab a "celebrity case" and if he wasnt KB no way would they have persued such a shaky case(even the pre-trial judge felt there wasnt enough evidence!) and they too need to be admonished for wasting time and tax payers money (as the STATE paid for the AV's drug rehab etc in addition to the $$ its costing to put this sham case on).
 
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB103LPMVD.html

"Prosecutors have abandoned their bid to retest DNA evidence in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case, accusing the NBA star's defense team of wasting so much time that to start testing now would delay the trial.
In a court filing made public Friday, District Attorney Mark Hurlbert said the results would be irrelevant anyway.

Details of what was to be tested have not been publicly disclosed"
 
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB6FV9VQVD.html

"His season over, Kobe Bryant returned to court Monday for a two-day hearing that began with sharp arguments over how to guide the jury in determining whether the NBA star is guilty of rape.
Bryant's defense team wants the judge to tell jurors they must acquit the Los Angeles Lakers star if they determine his alleged victim consented to sex.

In essence, defense attorney Hall Haddon said, prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the woman did not consent to sex and that Bryant knew it.

Prosecutors say they must prove only that the sex was "against the alleged victim's will," an element that answers the consent issue. "
 
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB2NT8WRVD.html

A two-day pretrial hearing was scheduled to resume Tuesday, with witness testimony and arguments over a defense motion to have the woman's sex life in the days surrounding her encounter with Bryant admitted as evidence.

During Monday's hearing, the sides exchanged sharp arguments over how to instruct the jurors who will decide whether the Los Angeles Lakers guard is guilty of sexual assault.

The issue of consent has emerged as a key battleground
 
I had read some stuff very early on where she was heard telling people at a party about having sex with Kobe. Where did you hear she was talking about settlement money? Because from what I understand she isn't looking for settlement $$$. Also, I didn't see any pics of her drunk in Canada but that wouldn't mean she hasn't been a rape victim. This is a very complicated case. I am looking forward to more information. I am also very interested in the cell phone text messages. If she was text messaging her former boyfriend about the encounter in order to elicit jealousy, that would make me very concerned about credibility. If such a thing is possible, I think this may be one of those real 'gray area' encounters. Wish we had more discussion on this case as I think it is a very interesting one.
 
lcookster said:
I had read some stuff very early on where she was heard telling people at a party about having sex with Kobe. Where did you hear she was talking about settlement money? Because from what I understand she isn't looking for settlement $$$. Also, I didn't see any pics of her drunk in Canada but that wouldn't mean she hasn't been a rape victim. This is a very complicated case. I am looking forward to more information. I am also very interested in the cell phone text messages. If she was text messaging her former boyfriend about the encounter in order to elicit jealousy, that would make me very concerned about credibility. If such a thing is possible, I think this may be one of those real 'gray area' encounters. Wish we had more discussion on this case as I think it is a very interesting one.


Maxim magazine had the article that interviewed three of her friends (one of them being her roommate who was also there for one of her attemped sucides).Maxim also talked about the Canadian pictures and the NE ran them.
I can link you to the Maxim article (I actually bought the issue but I saw the online copy through the CTV Kobe board).I've been following this case closely as it hits me personally(Im a rape survivor) but I just don't "buy" the AV's story and I really think the text messages are going to seal it.
The Pre-liem judge said the Pro's evidence was shaky at best and I agree.........they saw a "Hollywood case" and ran with it before really looking at the AV OR doing correct police work(they didnt collect or test the chair,the carpet,towels etc and now all the evidence is long gone since the hotel remodeled)Not to mention they sent the AV to rehab on the taxpayer's dime.
The image I have of the AV is similar to other women Ive known who have also (falsely)cried rape and everytime someone makes a false accusation its a slap in the face to real victims.
 
Messiecake, I'm truly sorry about what happened to you.

http://pm.gazette.com/fullstory.php?id=2735

"EAGLE - Attorneys wrapped up arguments Tuesday on whether the sex life of the woman accusing NBA star Kobe Bryant of rape can be used against her at trial, ending weeks of closed-door legal wrangling.

The details could be significant if they are admitted as evidence, but more written arguments are due next week. That means state District Judge Terry Ruckriegle won't make his decision until next month.

Bryant left Colorado after a two-day hearing without learning his trial date. Attorneys said they could be ready for trial by late August."
 
HI Messiecake- Thanks for your reply. Yes, I would love the link to that Maxim article. I too am interested in this case for the same reason as you. I haven't talked to any women who have falsely claimed rape but I have talked to many who let them go unreported out of shame or fear. I agree that if this is a false claim she has done a tremendous disservice to women everywhere. We used to have a dedicated Kobe forum on this board but it got lost somewhere in the transition.....L
 
lcookster said:
HI Messiecake- Thanks for your reply. Yes, I would love the link to that Maxim article. I too am interested in this case for the same reason as you. I haven't talked to any women who have falsely claimed rape but I have talked to many who let them go unreported out of shame or fear. I agree that if this is a false claim she has done a tremendous disservice to women everywhere. We used to have a dedicated Kobe forum on this board but it got lost somewhere in the transition.....L

Hello!!
Heres the article.I will try to find the NE article as well (say what you want about the tabs but with alot of things,like the Laci case,theyve been dead on)

http://www.dont-tel.com/sports/articles/article_5775.html



I unfortunately know alot of women too (myself included) who delayed reporting or just never reported but I also know of two women who lied about being raped (one lied because she cheated on her b/f,the other was just a psycho) .
I wish we did have a Kobe forum as also this case is making some interseting legal history it seems as well.
 
I never reported- and my situation involved a professional athlete. So perhaps that explains my original bias against Kobe. I think for many (and I shouldn't over-generalize) there is a serious entitlement and ego thing for a lot of these athletes. IN my case he was the friend of a trusted friend of mine who offered me a ride home after a get together. Once at my apartment door 'no' and trying to struggle away wasn't working. At 5'2" I was no match for a pro football player. I was 19 at the time and this guy was extremely well known in my college town, where he had once been the star football player prior to going pro. Enormously difficult and upsetting- when I tried to talk to a couple of people about what to do it was clear that they thought the incident should be swept under the rug. The trusted mutual friend told me it was all just part of 'growing up.' If this had been a stranger in an alley it would have been easier for people to understand it was a rape. It wasn't until my 30's that I could start talking to my close circle about what had happened. I still have never told my parents or my brother. I still look back, at the age of 44, with shame and regret about not going forward. But in those days there was even more doubt placed on the victim and noone around me supported it. And coming from a strict family I also placed blame on myself, ie I never should have accepted the ride home etc.. Worked this stuff out in therapy but it will always be a raw nerve. Hope this wasn't too much information to share but I think readers would be shocked at the number of women who have been in this situation. So I will watch this unfold and try to seperate myself in terms of too much 'projection.' I am eager to see all the evidence and especially those text messages.
 

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