CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

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Salem said:
Where is the link that MR is not answering his phone and doesn't have an answering machine? I've missed that bit of information.

Also - discussion that Dylan was last seen at the reservoir is off the table because it directly refutes what LE has said. That Dylan was last seen at MR's. It took months to get that info from LE. I wish they would be a little more forthcoming about some of this stuff.

Salem
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BBM, me too! I second that!!!
 
Money Girl said:
If you are talking to me, I did not state, indicate, or even think that "Elaine asked LE not to notify MR." The thought never crossed my mind.

I thought I said that if anyone needed to get a message to MR, they could ask LE to call him as he is apparently communicating with LE. And I meant, and thought I said, that I did not think LE would mind communicating a message from a missing child's mother to the missing child's father.

(IMO, there seems to be a lot of sniping going on, and I ask that it not be directed at me. I mean no harm to anyone.)
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IMO, nobody knows if MR was notified (either by LE, searchers, EH or anyone else) and decided to not be present or if MR was not notified and had no knowledge of the search until it was in the papers if at all. For all we know, he could have been out of town. IMO both parents should participate in searches, that's what I would do if it were my child and that's what I would expect the other parent to do as well. I'm not snipping at you or directing this at you, so please don't take it that way, I am only responding to a post with what I believe I would do in the same situation and MOO.
 
TxLady2 said:
Very well said, and I totally agree!
In spite of all the varying opinions on this case, it really doesn't matter who is right or wrong, all that matters is finding Dylan. That should be the focus here. He is somewhere, and he needs to be found. I personally choose not to put my focus on what any one person is or is not doing, because I'm not in their shoes and I don't know what is in their minds.
I still have hopes that he is alive, but reality dictates he is probably not. With that in mind, all I can offer is prayers for his family and to all who love him, and that some day, somehow, they can find peace in their hearts.
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BBM - this comment reminds me of something, do you want to argue because you are right or do you want to argue to win. Not saying that arguments are happening, I look at it as compassion for personal beliefs and opinions. IMO, everyone wants Dylan home safe and if that is not possible then everyone wants the family to have closure. Deciding what happened to Dylan and any eventual prosecution of whomever had a role in his disappearance is so far down the road.

The you is general and not directed at anyone at all.
 
ColdHands said:
The thing is, research is not going to solve this case. Hard work and inspired thinking is. I really appreciated the suggestion of old burials because it showed creativity and an out of the box approach. It left me believing that there could be reasons for the dogs to have detected something that are completely unrelated to this case. Old burials is one. dead animals is another. The human element that is involved in dog training and handling is a third.

And that put me back into the mode of thinking, well if not the lake (which it looks less likely now after this last search) then where?

I did go back and read the scanner thread. And all the great search articles that TheCheese posted there for us. I have spent hours looking at the satellite maps of the lake, and thinking about how low the lake levels were in November. And where someone could put a hundred pound body into the lake without being seen or leaving any trace, footprints, tire marks, etc.

Research is only part of the story. We all filter facts our own way, select and choose to fit or disprove theories as they come up. That's the art of the brainstorming process.
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Hi ColdHands!

BBM - Research is what LE does in an investigation. Research phone records, past criminal records, alibis, etc...Maybe I am misinterpreting your post? I'm sorry if I did.

Research = investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws.
 
azgrandma said:
IMO, nobody knows if MR was notified (either by LE, searchers, EH or anyone else) and decided to not be present or if MR was not notified and had no knowledge of the search until it was in the papers if at all. For all we know, he could have been out of town. IMO both parents should participate in searches, that's what I would do if it were my child and that's what I would expect the other parent to do as well. I'm not snipping at you or directing this at you, so please don't take it that way, I am only responding to a post with what I believe I would do in the same situation and MOO.
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I have to say this because I was seriously considering your post. I am not sure I could bring myself to be at that search because with the dog alerts you expect there to be a dead body down there, whether or not it's your child. In my life I have never seen a dead body until recently, I have gone to funerals but all the wakes I have been to the casket was closed, but recently a very close family member died and I went with my husband to the hospital. After seeing that family member, deceased, that night and the subsequent nights for a while I had nightmares about it. It was an image I couldn't get out of my head, and the family member had died of a heart attack. I could not imagine seeing a body brought up from the bottom of the lake and then to determine it was my child. It would be so horrible to see, so for me, I don't know if I could attend a search like that, no matter how desperate I was to know the fate of my child.
 
Without having any idea whether Dylan was taken away in a vehicle or left on foot...IMO there is no way on earth to even try to determine where he could be. Of course that does not mean searching should not be done, but I am at a loss as to where such searching should take place.

I just do not see a way for Dylan to be found other than by chance, if LE does not in fact have a suspect whose past movements can be traced to a particular area or route. Very depressing.
 
Emma Ems said:
I have to say this because I was seriously considering your post. I am not sure I could bring myself to be at that search because with the dog alerts you expect there to be a dead body down there, whether or not it's your child. In my life I have never seen a dead body until recently, I have gone to funerals but all the wakes I have been to the casket was closed, but recently a very close family member died and I went with my husband to the hospital. After seeing that family member, deceased, that night and the subsequent nights for a while I had nightmares about it. It was an image I couldn't get out of my head, and the family member had died of a heart attack. I could not imagine seeing a body brought up from the bottom of the lake and then to determine it was my child. It would be so horrible to see, so for me, I don't know if I could attend a search like that, no matter how desperate I was to know the fate of my child.
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I can certainly understand that. I have seen plenty of deceased people and it isn't a pretty sight. MOO - I brought my children into this world and as a parent it is my responsibility to make sure that I am with them from cradle to grave if that is what is necessary. As a parent, I can't imagine the horror of watching others search for my child in a lake, I just can't. As well, I can't imagine not being there either. I don't know how to explain it because it's difficult, but I personally feel that it would be my duty to be there when my child is found, sort of as a way to let them know that I never gave up and I'm there and it's going to be ok, even though I know it's NOT ok that they are gone.
 
Emma Ems said:
I have to say this because I was seriously considering your post. I am not sure I could bring myself to be at that search because with the dog alerts you expect there to be a dead body down there, whether or not it's your child. In my life I have never seen a dead body until recently, I have gone to funerals but all the wakes I have been to the casket was closed, but recently a very close family member died and I went with my husband to the hospital. After seeing that family member, deceased, that night and the subsequent nights for a while I had nightmares about it. It was an image I couldn't get out of my head, and the family member had died of a heart attack. I could not imagine seeing a body brought up from the bottom of the lake and then to determine it was my child. It would be so horrible to see, so for me, I don't know if I could attend a search like that, no matter how desperate I was to know the fate of my child.
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You would not have to see your child's remains. If they get to the point where they are going to bring up something from the lake, LE warns the family and they can go back some distance. They do not want anyone to see anything like that, although they sometimes find some artifacts they would want to have identified, like jewelry or clothing or shoes etc.
 
IMO, we don't know why MR has not been on the beach or shoreline during the searches. We don't know if he knew about the searches or not. We don't know anything about what is on his mind. Because he isn't talking, isn't being interviewed, hasn't been photographed. We just don't know. IMO it seems extremely bizarre to me that he is being so invisible and so silent.
 
I think it is human nature to suspect someone who is acting in a different manner than the norm. It's part of our self-protection wiring, IMO. Sort of like looking at scenery and always having your eyes gravitate to the thing that is moving. It has served our species well over the years. IMO we should trust those instincts as they might lead us to the answer. And if it doesn't then if might lead us to confirmation that the person we find suspicious, really is not a threat or really is not guilty after all.

When someone expresses a suspicion that totally challenges my own , I try to trust the others' instincts enough that I don't outright dismiss what they are saying.

There are some here who absolutely believe that MR was uninvolved in the disappearance of Dylan. That MR has so been maligned that, given his personality, he is incapable of involving himself in the events where there will be crowds. IMO those people sincerely believe what they are saying. I give those people credit, even though I can't quite come to their conclusions.

Even though MR is still number one in my now very narrow set of theories, I have to thank people who challenge my thinking. They have opened my eyes to one thing. If they are right, imagine what it must be like for MR. He would instantly become not a monster who is hiding something, but a grieving father who is all alone in this nightmare.
 
AnotherSetOfEyes said:
I think it is human nature to suspect someone who is acting in a different manner than the norm. It's part of our self-protection wiring, IMO. Sort of like looking at scenery and always having your eyes gravitate to the thing that is moving. It has served our species well over the years. IMO we should trust those instincts as they might lead us to the answer. And if it doesn't then if might lead us to confirmation that the person we find suspicious, really is not a threat or really is not guilty after all.

When someone expresses a suspicion that totally challenges my own , I try to trust the others' instincts enough that I don't outright dismiss what they are saying.

There are some here who absolutely believe that MR was uninvolved in the disappearance of Dylan. That MR has so been maligned that, given his personality, he is incapable of involving himself in the events where there will be crowds. IMO those people sincerely believe what they are saying. I give those people credit, even though I can't quite come to their conclusions.

Even though MR is still number one in my now very narrow set of theories, I have to thank people who challenge my thinking. They have opened my eyes to one thing. If they are right, imagine what it must be like for MR. He would instantly become not a monster who is hiding something, but a grieving father who is all alone in this nightmare.
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Great post!

BBM - But here is where I have to question the WHY he is all alone and what it means to this case. KWIM?
 
ColdHands said:
Is it actually a different scent or is it just that the scent has not accumulated/built up in quantity in that short period of time?
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From what I posted above *, it is both of those things. The initial scent is different from the later ones, and is much less built up as well.

ETA:

It has been shown, however, that the dogs do not always get it right. Cadaver dogs are trained to detect gases given off by decomposing bodies, but there are questions surrounding their use. For instance how soon after death can they recognise a body, and how long must a 'fresh' body remain in one place for the dog to detect that it has been there. In addition, the dogs are taught by a variety of trainers, with each trainer predictably believing their own method to be better than others. Some train their dogs using synthetic smells, while others use decomposing meat. This means there is increased opportunity for unreliability, which then casts doubt over the dog's effectiveness.
Using buried and unburied pig carcasses to record the gases given off over a three-month period Anna and Helena's research project looked for any association between the stage of decomposition and the odour profile given off, in order to increase the accuracy of the cadaver dogs detection. Decomposition scents change over time so the project was investigating which gases are produced at which stage of decomposition and how long after death. If it is know what gases are given off at a particular point in time, comparisons can be made with the smells that the dogs have been trained to detect, to make sure they are searching for the correct ones.
Although this was only a preliminary investigation, the research did find differences in the gases from the carcasses and does show there is potential for further investigations.

http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/cds/cfi/cadaver.html

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TIA
 
This comment by Mark Redwine at the start of his interview with MB doesn’t make any sense to me.

<snipped>

&#8220;We were inseparable. I mean anywhere I was, Dylan was right there beside me. He would come to me before he would go to his mom. I think in many ways that was part of the problems that developed in our relationship was because while she was out earning a career it was very difficult for her to loose sight of the fact that she wasn&#8217;t there bonding with Dylan the way I was and I think that was a huge problem for her, and I think that has been a problem for her for a long time now. &#8220;
 
The Cheese said:
Elaine and Mark are emailing each other. It was in the video interview with Elaine about the search a couple days ago. KRQE I think was the news station.

ETA add link. Sorry. She doesn't say they're emailing each other. She says Mark is emailing her. I can't confirm she's answering his emails.

&#8220;He is very cryptic when he emails me

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/04/25/redwine-search-intensifies-at-vallecito-reservoir/
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You know, I would be interested to know if Elaine is emailing/responding to Mark. If this is the only way the other parent of my missing child would communicate with me, I would not respond. It would feel like a game of control to me. In my opinion, emailing is an odd manner to communicate when your son is missing. Yet, not so odd if you don't want to show emotion. Texting and emailing can do just that, remove the ability to see emotion often causing miscommunication in what is being said. We misinterpret posts here all the time. You can't physically hear or see a persons emotion in written words. It is well known in the world of social behaviorism there is a lot you can tell about a person just by looking in their eyes or hearing the quiver in their voice. In my opinion, in the case of a child missing the choice of email communication seems evasive and even borderline nefarious.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
This comment by Mark Redwine at the start of his interview with MB doesn’t make any sense to me.

<snipped>

“We were inseparable. I mean anywhere I was, Dylan was right there beside me. He would come to me before he would go to his mom. I think in many ways that was part of the problems that developed in our relationship was because while she was out earning a career it was very difficult for her to loose sight of the fact that she wasn’t there bonding with Dylan the way I was and I think that was a huge problem for her, and I think that has been a problem for her for a long time now. “
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Delusional thinking, imo. I think that was what he craved and desired, but it was not the reality of the situation. JMO
 
*Lash* said:
You know, I would be interested to know if Elaine is emailing/responding to Mark. If this is the only way the spouse of our missing child would communicate with me, I would not respond. It would feel like a game of control to me. In my opinion, emailing is an odd manner to communicate when your son is missing. Yet, not so odd if you don't want to show emotion. Texting and emailing can do just that, remove the ability to see emotion often causing miscommunication in what is being said. We misinterpret posts here all the time. You can't physically hear or see a persons emotion in written words. It is well known in the world of social behaviorism there is a lot you can tell about a person just by looking in their eyes or hearing the quiver in their voice. In my opinion, in the case of a child missing the choice of email communication seems evasive and even borderline nefarious.
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Just like the text that informed her her son was missing. I would think that should elicit a call, not a text. JMO
 
So what I'm wondering is is the lake search over and has it been ruled out? It's very confusing.
 
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