Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #103

[Lilibet]

Because they completely disregard the fact that with rights come responsibilities.

A person may have a right to decide not to vaccinate, but that then negates their right to not wear a mask to protect others.

imo

With rights come responsibilities: how coronavirus is a pandemic of hypocrisy

This article hits it out of the park! My favorite part:

Hypocrisy is when we are inconsistent in our morality. We commonly refer to it as “saying one thing and doing another”.

Anti-maskers believe they have rights. But in refusing to wear a mask, they are denying other people the right to live in security. Article 3 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights says “everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person”. These rights are inextricably interwoven. Freedom without safety is arguably not freedom at all.

The primary way we become hypocrites, strangely enough, is being too flexible in our thinking — a cognitive flexibility called abstraction. Flexible thinking can be about keeping an open mind, but the capacity to warp one’s thinking processes can also make double standards acceptable.

We create loopholes in the application of the rules because we’ve created those rules much too theoretically, which doesn’t gel with real world settings.
BBM

IMO those who are adamant about protecting their freedom from government encroachment during this pandemic are basing their decisions on the abstraction of freedom without considering how it impacts others in the real world…encroaching on the freedom of others to the “right to life” and “security of person.”

 

[Lilibet]

Like I said in my previous post. She would rather take her chances with Covid than have an outbreak of her autoimmune. She has Bullous pemphigoid. It surfaced a few years ago and she dealt with it for almost 2 years before it went into remission. She would get huge! (Like bigger than your fist) sores/blisters all over he body but most commonly in her groin, under her arms etc. they were painful and when they burst they would get infected. It’s a very rare condition and she had a hard time finding a doctor who specialized in it. She had to be put on a high dose of prednisone for about 18 months and coming off of that is no joke either. It was a constant state of pain, medications and deep depression (especially living alone). It’s finally under control but she does not want her immune system to go haywire and have this tear it’s ugly head again. Under any circumstances. She said she’d rather die from Covid. I’m not kidding. She’s also not out snd about flaunting her unvaccinated self. She’s almost 80. She hardly goes anywhere. It’s sad and I feel for her because I know how terrible it was for her. Her doctors basically said they weren’t sure if it would cause an immune response or not. She’s not taking the chance and they agreed it’s probably not the best idea (not to mention she told them she’d rather die than get it again). Constant pain and infection. So judging someone like this is just not right IMO.

Your MIL has my utmost sympathy. What an awful disease. For all I know, I’d make the same decision in her shoes. I would also willingly do all I could to avoid catching covid.

But people like your MIL are not who we are discussing here. We are talking about people who put their personal freeeeeedum ahead of their social responsibility toward others. So let’s not confuse and conflate the two issues and bring your MIL into the discussion when her situation is totally different and no one here would be judging her.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Interim Clinical Considerations for Use of COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

Special populations

People with autoimmune conditions

People with autoimmune conditions were enrolled in COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials. Safety and efficacy of vaccines in this population were similar to the general population. People with autoimmune conditions may receive any currently FDA-approved or FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine but, as with the general population, mRNA vaccines are preferred over the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine. If people with these conditions are immunocompromised because of medications such as high-dose corticosteroids or biologic agents, they should consult Considerations for COVID-19 vaccination in moderately or severely immunocompromised people.

This doesn't mention Bullous Pemphigoid specifically, just autoimmune disease as a whole. I'm sorry your MIL is dealing with Bullous Pemphigoid. It must be awful.

 

[SouthAussie]

This article hits it out of the park! My favorite part:

Hypocrisy is when we are inconsistent in our morality. We commonly refer to it as “saying one thing and doing another”.

Anti-maskers believe they have rights. But in refusing to wear a mask, they are denying other people the right to live in security. Article 3 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights says “everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person”. These rights are inextricably interwoven. Freedom without safety is arguably not freedom at all.

The primary way we become hypocrites, strangely enough, is being too flexible in our thinking — a cognitive flexibility called abstraction. Flexible thinking can be about keeping an open mind, but the capacity to warp one’s thinking processes can also make double standards acceptable.

We create loopholes in the application of the rules because we’ve created those rules much too theoretically, which doesn’t gel with real world settings.
BBM

IMO those who are adamant about protecting their freedom from government encroachment during this pandemic are basing their decisions on the abstraction of freedom without considering how it impacts others in the real world…encroaching on the freedom of others to the “right to life” and “security of person.”

The part that jumps out, to me, is .... say it like it is, don't couch 'your' statements with lack of context. Then see how 'you' feel.


"I have a right to live unmasked."
VS
"I have a right to live unmasked even when I’m possibly an asymptomatic carrier of the worst disease to hit our country in a century."

With rights come responsibilities: how coronavirus is a pandemic of hypocrisy

 

[tabitha111]

I don't know how one can be a home health aide and carry on with that kind of behavior. I would think there would be massive legal issues if and when she infects residents due to her behavior. If there aren't legal ramifications, there should be. That type of behavior renders the residents sitting ducks.

we are an independent living facility, not assisted living. She is her own boss, doesn't work for an agency and works for cash under the table. She is more like a person that runs errands, puts people on the commode, gets their meals for them, feeds their pets, picks up their room, gives them thier prescribed meds, showers, cleans them up etc etc she's not a licensed home health aide but she does do home health Care. And no she does not wear a mask and no one here in our facility says a word to her as our director says masks are optional. And yes it bothers me but I actually like her very much as a person. Not many will do what she does. She is triple vaxxed, but no one wears masks here! Hence why I'm the local weirdo.

 

[Jsizzle]

Your MIL has my utmost sympathy. What an awful disease. For all I know, I’d make the same decision in her shoes. I would also willingly do all I could to avoid catching covid.

But people like your MIL are not who we are discussing here. We are talking about people who put their personal freeeeeedum ahead of their social responsibility toward others. So let’s not confuse and conflate the two issues and bring your MIL into the discussion when her situation is totally different and no one here would be judging her.

I understand. I was just saying that she shouldn’t have to explain herself to anyone with regards to not being vaxxed. I know more vaxxed people than I don’t but people have their reasons. But I do understand what you’re saying and there certainly is a difference.

 

[ilovewings]

Like I said in my previous post. She would rather take her chances with Covid than have an outbreak of her autoimmune. She has Bullous pemphigoid. It surfaced a few years ago and she dealt with it for almost 2 years before it went into remission. She would get huge! (Like bigger than your fist) sores/blisters all over he body but most commonly in her groin, under her arms etc. they were painful and when they burst they would get infected. It’s a very rare condition and she had a hard time finding a doctor who specialized in it. She had to be put on a high dose of prednisone for about 18 months and coming off of that is no joke either. It was a constant state of pain, medications and deep depression (especially living alone). It’s finally under control but she does not want her immune system to go haywire and have this tear it’s ugly head again. Under any circumstances. She said she’d rather die from Covid. I’m not kidding. She’s also not out snd about flaunting her unvaccinated self. She’s almost 80. She hardly goes anywhere. It’s sad and I feel for her because I know how terrible it was for her. Her doctors basically said they weren’t sure if it would cause an immune response or not. She’s not taking the chance and they agreed it’s probably not the best idea (not to mention she told them she’d rather die than get it again). Constant pain and infection. So judging someone like this is just not right IMO.

Interesting you should mention that condition Bullous Pemphigoid--
I became familiar with it when I was a paralegal for a personal injury attorney and we had a client with that condition, who wanted to sue a hospital and physician for medical malpractice. I got a crash course on this condition. She had
photos taken in the hospital and I will tell you they were the most horrible
photos of a skin condition I had ever seen. She was so immunocompromised--
I dont know how she survived that and other conditions as well. Unfortunately
there was really no case for malpractice but she was a sweet lady and I
felt so badly for her.

 

[LaborDayRN]

we are an independent living facility, not assisted living. She is her own boss, doesn't work for an agency and works for cash under the table. She is more like a person that runs errands, puts people on the commode, gets their meals for them, feeds their pets, picks up their room, gives them thier prescribed meds, showers, cleans them up etc etc she's not a licensed home health aide but she does do home health Care. And no she does not wear a mask and no one here in our facility says a word to her as our director says masks are optional. And yes it bothers me but I actually like her very much as a person. Not many will do what she does. She is triple vaxxed, but no one wears masks here! Hence why I'm the local weirdo.

Again, it's so interesting to me how things differ from state to state. My FIL is in a combo independent / assisted living facility here in CA. No one is allowed in without a mask including employees and visitors.

 

[Jsizzle]

Interesting you should mention that condition Bullous Pemphigoid--
I became familiar with it when I was a paralegal for a personal injury attorney and we had a client with that condition, who wanted to sue a hospital and physician for medical malpractice. I got a crash course on this condition. She had
photos taken in the hospital and I will tell you they were the most horrible
photos of a skin condition I had ever seen. She was so immunocompromised--
I dont know how she survived that and other conditions as well. Unfortunately
there was really no case for malpractice but she was a sweet lady and I
felt so badly for her.

OMG it was horrific. She would cry everyday. Plus being alone (my husbands father died 20 years ago) didn’t help matters. Then nobody knew how to help her. Then infection after infection on top of prednisone. It honestly scares me that in some way or another it will passed to my kids. She didn’t develop the condition until way later in life and had no idea she had this brewing. Plus having to be on prednisone for so long was horrible in an of itself but then when she’s reduce the meds she’d have a break out. It’s finally in remission and she’s not on any meds but she has some major PTSD with regards to it. We think she was seriously considering suicide. She would say things to me and my husband and my sister in law that made us very worried for her. Thankfully she’s in a much better place now and has been symptom free for a while. I’m not sure she has it in her to get it again. Sorry to derail thread!

eta and yes it was horribly disgusting and looked absolutely dreadful and painful. Wouldnt wish that on anyone.

 

[WichitaFalls]

we are an independent living facility, not assisted living. She is her own boss, doesn't work for an agency and works for cash under the table. She is more like a person that runs errands, puts people on the commode, gets their meals for them, feeds their pets, picks up their room, gives them thier prescribed meds, showers, cleans them up etc etc she's not a licensed home health aide but she does do home health Care. And no she does not wear a mask and no one here in our facility says a word to her as our director says masks are optional.

MOO but she is dead wrong for what she's doing. The people that she's putting on the commode etc. are defenseless to the ramifications of her poor decisions. Conditions for the elderly/chronically ill are often subjected to subpar care and disregard if they don't have access to tons of financial resources. It borders on criminal IMO.
I'm glad you are taking good care of yourself by eating meals in your room and taking all of the grounded in science steps to stay well. It must be difficult for you to see such irresponsible behavior. Stay well.

 

[Lilibet]

Again, it's so interesting to me how things differ from state to state. My FIL is in a combo independent / assisted living facility here in CA. No one is allowed in without a mask including employees and visitors.

The combo senior living facility in our town in Oregon requires masks of everyone but the residents. I see photos of activities on FB and none of them wear masks. Fortunately, our friends who live there avoid groups and wear masks.

 

[tabitha111]

It so interesting to me how things differ from state to state. My FIL is in a combo independent / assisted living facility here in CA. No one is allowed in without a mask including employees and visitors.

we are not assisted living. It's more like apartments and we get meals prepared but you are on your own. If you need assistance you move to an assisted living place or pay someone privately to help you. Our director thinks because we are all vaxxed, masks are optional. There are no mask mandates in our state either.

 

[Estelle]

Again, it's so interesting to me how things differ from state to state. My FIL is in a combo independent / assisted living facility here in CA. No one is allowed in without a mask including employees and visitors.

I live in an over 50s Retirement Village in Sydney, Australia, and everybody now has to wear masks again indoors including our visitors and staff unless we are eating or drinking.

 

[CharlestonGal]

More than 2,000 positives to COVID-19 among people who attended the Bad Bunny concert

Massive events, movie theaters and weddings are among the exposure and transmission scenarios that have been most identified by people who have been infected with COVID-19 in recent weeks, reported the Department's Office of Epidemiology. of Health before questions of El Nuevo Día .

The scenarios that have been identified the most as exhibition venues in December: mass events; cinemas; wedding; funeral; birthday; home; Labor-Labor party; Christmas party; travels; sport activities.

 

[SouthAussie]

I live in an over 50s Retirement Village in Sydney, Australia, and everybody now has to wear masks again indoors including our visitors and staff unless we are eating or drinking.

Unfortunately, our "open up" modelling was based on Delta. And we inadvertently opened up to Omicron instead ... bad timing.

Now we are having to backtrack on our strategy. Reimpose restrictions and protections, so that we can slow the spread and our hospital system can cope.

imo

Eg (for others):
NSW must again scan in with a QR code at cafes, restaurants and shopping centres .... A maximum one person per two square metres density limit will also apply at pubs, restaurants and clubs
South Australian Premier Steven Marshall says he's very concerned about the rise in Omicron cases ... capacity limits at gyms have been reduced to one person per seven square metres, while cafes and restaurants will revert to one patron per four square metres.

COVID updates: Here's the latest coronavirus news from around Australia

 

[MajorHoople]

More than 2,000 positives to COVID-19 among people who attended the Bad Bunny concert

Massive events, movie theaters and weddings are among the exposure and transmission scenarios that have been most identified by people who have been infected with COVID-19 in recent weeks, reported the Department's Office of Epidemiology. of Health before questions of El Nuevo Día .

The scenarios that have been identified the most as exhibition venues in December: mass events; cinemas; wedding; funeral; birthday; home; Labor-Labor party; Christmas party; travels; sport activities.

What on earth is a Bad Bunny concert? Never mind ...... I don't think I want to know.

P.S. I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better.

 

[Arkay]

Masks are optional. Vaccines aren’t mandated and so far we haven’t had any issues. Because if your kid is sick you keep them home. It’s not that difficult.

The huge problem here, IMO, is that with COVID-19 you don’t KNOW sometimes when someone is sick and infectious. ESPECIALLY with children.

Isn’t this what we have been learning since March 2020? That with this disease, people may be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic? Particularly younger people? And that therefore they are endangering others because they may silently and unknowingly spread it? Which has in fact been happening for nearly two years? And an integral reason why the virus keeps mutating and spreading?

I certainly hope your children stay healthy and their schoolmates as well. But millions of people have caught this disease, because there are millions who are infectious but are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic.

It’s not like Ebola, for instance, which is a hemorrhagic rather than a respiratory disease. With Ebola, people are spurting blood from various orifices and everyone is clearly aware of the danger. That’s why a disease like that is mainly endemic to its place of origin.

I’m sorry, but I can’t understand anyplace that allows for voluntary vaccination AND voluntary masking. The hospitals are full of unvaccinated people regretting their decision. It’s on the news every day. Doctors and nurses and scientists talk about it every day.

My family and 90% of my friends are triple vaccinated. My two youngest grandchildren are too young for the booster. I don’t hate my few unvaccinated friends, but I don’t respect them.

JMO but the opinion of all mainstream doctors and scientists, as well.

 

[Jsizzle]

The huge problem here, IMO, is that with COVID-19 you don’t KNOW sometimes when someone is sick and infectious. ESPECIALLY with children.

Isn’t this what we have been learning since March 2020? That with this disease, people may be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic? Particularly younger people? And that therefore they are endangering others because they may silently and unknowingly spread it? Which has in fact been happening for nearly two years? And an integral reason why the virus keeps mutating and spreading?

I certainly hope your children stay healthy and their schoolmates as well. But millions of people have caught this disease, because there are millions who are infectious but are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic.

It’s not like Ebola, for instance, which is a hemorrhagic rather than a respiratory disease. With Ebola, people are spurting blood from various orifices and everyone is clearly aware of the danger. That’s why a disease like that is mainly endemic to its place of origin.

I’m sorry, but I can’t understand anyplace that allows for voluntary vaccination AND voluntary masking. The hospitals are full of unvaccinated people regretting their decision. It’s on the news every day. Doctors and nurses and scientists talk about it every day.

My family and 90% of my friends are triple vaccinated. My two youngest grandchildren are too young for the booster. I don’t hate my few unvaccinated friends, but I don’t respect them.

JMO but the opinion of all mainstream doctors and scientists, as well.

Believe it or not, this is generally the norm in most states. I’m not even sure CA or NY has implemented mandatory Covid vaccines at this time.

 

[Arkay]

Believe it or not, this is generally the norm in most states. I’m not even sure CA or NY has implemented mandatory Covid vaccines at this time.

Well, there you go. If it’s the norm in most states, this is why covid keeps roaring back in ever more clever mutated forms.

I’m sure about NYC. I’ve lived here all my life and taught here for 25 years. Most of my teacher friends are still working. All teachers and school staff must be vaccinated, in private and public schools. Masks are mandatory for adults and children. Vaccines are mandated for all indoor activities and masks are too, except for when eating.

Yet covid is roiling us again because so many people flout (not flaunt) the law. I see it every day. In my apartment building it’s a $100 fine to not wear a mask in the elevators and lobbies, yet even the security guards keep pulling them off. And so do half the neighbors. Even though there are cameras.

I have learned a lot about my neighbors and it definitely has changed my opinion of them. Permanently. We have people in my building, good friends of mine, who died before vaccines. I’m done with the neighbors who don’t give a *!*!

JMO

 

[ilovewings]

OMG it was horrific. She would cry everyday. Plus being alone (my husbands father died 20 years ago) didn’t help matters. Then nobody knew how to help her. Then infection after infection on top of prednisone. It honestly scares me that in some way or another it will passed to my kids. She didn’t develop the condition until way later in life and had no idea she had this brewing. Plus having to be on prednisone for so long was horrible in an of itself but then when she’s reduce the meds she’d have a break out. It’s finally in remission and she’s not on any meds but she has some major PTSD with regards to it. We think she was seriously considering suicide. She would say things to me and my husband and my sister in law that made us very worried for her. Thankfully she’s in a much better place now and has been symptom free for a while. I’m not sure she has it in her to get it again. Sorry to derail thread!

eta and yes it was horribly disgusting and looked absolutely dreadful and painful. Wouldnt wish that on anyone.[/QUOTE:

OMG it was horrific. She would cry everyday. Plus being alone (my husbands father died 20 years ago) didn’t help matters. Then nobody knew how to help her. Then infection after infection on top of prednisone. It honestly scares me that in some way or another it will passed to my kids. She didn’t develop the condition until way later in life and had no idea she had this brewing. Plus having to be on prednisone for so long was horrible in an of itself but then when she’s reduce the meds she’d have a break out. It’s finally in remission and she’s not on any meds but she has some major PTSD with regards to it. We think she was seriously considering suicide. She would say things to me and my husband and my sister in law that made us very worried for her. Thankfully she’s in a much better place now and has been symptom free for a while. I’m not sure she has it in her to get it again. Sorry to derail thread!

eta and yes it was horribly disgusting and looked absolutely dreadful and painful. Wouldnt wish that on anyone.

I am sorry your MIL has this awful painful miserable condition--I recall
being shocked when I saw photos of this woman in the hospital. She
had other autoimmune conditions as well- she was on kidney dialysis too.
She was in pain a good deal of the time and she was on large doses of steroids.
It is good your MIL is symptom free at this time--Hoping she stays that way- take
care