Female Sexual Asphyxia

[narlacat]

Im having trouble accepting that JB died from EA or AEA Bluecrab...i know this is a theory of yours and it could just be that my feeble brain cannot accept that two little kids would be into that kind of stuff....its like i dont want to believe that but reading certain posts here....it certainly can happen with young kids....
Its embarrasing stuff for the families of people who die from this practice....i remember a few years ago here in Australia a singer from a very popular band (Michael Hutchence from INXS)died from this exact thing.....his parents were mortified and tried to say he had hung himself because things werent going so well for him.....they would rather have people believe he committed suicide than have been into"wierd sexual practices".
I think if i was inclined to believe this theory..i dont think this would have been something JB and Burke did alone...another older person was most likely involved....maybe the asian guy from uni who babysat....
Still, my question about poo pooing the bed was left unanswered....id like to know if that were true. Bedwetting alone at 6 years old is not unusual,i have a 6 year old who still wets the bed every now and again....but doing no.2s in the bed is extremely unusual and could be an indication about the way things were in the Ramsey household.

 

[BlueCrab]

Still, my question about poo pooing the bed was left unanswered....id like to know if that were true. Bedwetting alone at 6 years old is not unusual,i have a 6 year old who still wets the bed every now and again....but doing no.2s in the bed is extremely unusual and could be an indication about the way things were in the Ramsey household.

narlcat,

I think housekeeper Linda Hoffman-Pugh is the only source for the alleged defecating in bed. I'm not sure whether it happened or is just another myth. Hoffman-Pugh lost credibility after she smelled money.

 

[angelnsb]

I saw this posted on another thread Crimes in the news. I figured it may have some relevance posted on this thread. I noticed lots of people have a hard time believing that children do in fact play this sort of game.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22485

 

[BlueCrab]

I saw this posted on another thread Crimes in the news. I figured it may have some relevance posted on this thread. I noticed lots of people have a hard time believing that children do in fact play this sort of game.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22485

Thank you angelnsb,

The disappointing thing about that 13-year-old girl in the article is she died of autoerotic asphyxiation, even though neither the cops nor the newspaper said so. It points up the lack of knowledge and the inability to recognize autoerotic asphyxiation (AEA) and erotic asphyxiation (EA), which are extremely dangerous masturbation practices. I am convinced that JonBenet died of EA. That was an EA device wrapped around JonBenet's neck; not a garrote.

The FBI estimates that about 500 people in the U.S. accidentally die each year due to AEA (solo masturbation) and EA (masturbated by a second person). The deaths on record range from 9 years old to people in their 80's. If JonBenet accidentally died of EA, at 6 she would be the youngest on record. In almost all cases of accidental death by AEA and EA the families change the scene of the homicide and cover it up because of the embarrassment. Sound familiar?

BlueCrab

 

[angelnsb]

Your welcome BC,
I too agree that sounds very likely. I always enjoy reading your posts they are well thought out and thought provoking.

Question: Are you or anyone else aware of any friends that Burke or JB may have known that were in their early teens???

 

[Voice of Reason]

I have a problem with the suggestion of EA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in EA, isn't the person being asphyxiated the one who gets the heightened pleasure, if you will? So basically, by suggesting EA, you are suggesting that either Burke, John, or some other person who was abusing JBR thought that JBR would "enjoy" it more if he suffocated her? That makes no sense to me. Why would an abuser try to heighten the pleasure for his abusee? Even if she consented to such activities (sexual play), would JBR request such added pleasure at her age?

If we are talking about AEA, you must assume that JBR brought this upon herself. That seems far-fetched.

I understand that age concerns have been addressed in this thread, but it just seems ludicrous to suggest that (1) JBR got any satisfaction or even engaged in masturbatory practices at age 6, and (2) that she would seek to heighten this pleasure through the use of such a device.

To me, the only possible role EA or AEA can play in this crime, is that the garotte was somebody's device used for such purposes, and its purposes were transformed that night...

 

[BlueCrab]

Your welcome BC,
I too agree that sounds very likely. I always enjoy reading your posts they are well thought out and thought provoking.

Question: Are you or anyone else aware of any friends that Burke or JB may have known that were in their early teens???

angelnsb.

Yes, there were a number of older boys in the neighborhood (one or two years older than Burke), and most of them would come into the Ramsey's house to play video games with Burke. JonBenet had a crush on one of them, who we'll call LV, and, according to Patsy, she would blush when around him. LV was older than the other boys so he wasn't in the house as often as the others.

TRIP DEMUTH: "You say he would give JonBenet attention. Would he play with her?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Not really. I mean I sort of kept an eyeball there, because he was a little bit older, you know."

BlueCrab

 

[lawman]

i believe the sequence of injuries must be determined conclusively, before this AEA or EA theory should even be considered.

lawman

 

[capps]

I don't believe EA was the cause of death ... or maybe I just don't want to believe that EA had anything to do with JonBenet's death.

The thought of a sexual act,any kind of sexual act that takes the life of a 6yr old,a little girl who was years away from puberty,let alone from devious sexual acts ... well ...it's almost too disgusting to think about.

 

[BlueCrab]

I understand that age concerns have been addressed in this thread, but it just seems ludicrous to suggest that (1) JBR got any satisfaction or even engaged in masturbatory practices at age 6, and (2) that she would seek to heighten this pleasure through the use of such a device.

Voice of Reason,

On the contrary, toddlers much younger than six, do masturbate. From "BabyCenter", the online site about babies, mothers, and mothers-to-be:

"Toddlers masturbate because it feels good, and the good feelings can be as pleasurable for her as they are for adults. A toddler may masturbate herself to orgasm."

 

[GuruJosh]

BC,

then why would the strangling device have been left around JB's neck?

In all the RDI scenarios, there seems to be an element of "covering up the family shame" - so why leave the device around her neck?

 

[lawman]

this is a good point Gurujosh, where does the coverup begin and the crime finish.(if indeed this is what happened)
with no certainty of what the sequence was i don`t believe anybody can ever no for sure.
although it is looking a good chance that the missing items from the crime scene i.e the ransom note practice pages, part of the paintbrush, the roll of duct tape, missing matching cord and anything else involved in the crime, disappeared by way of pushbike.however if this person came back to the house or left the scene is not known at this stage.imho

lawman

 

[BlueCrab]

BC,

then why would the strangling device have been left around JB's neck?

In all the RDI scenarios, there seems to be an element of "covering up the family shame" - so why leave the device around her neck?

GuruJosh,

IMO, when the parents found the body it was already 3 or 4 AM and time was of the escence. If they removed the ligatures from JonBenet, what would they do with the cords? And the deep furrows on the neck would still be there, showing she had been strangled, but the cords would be gone and would be searched for by the cops. It appears the parents had no choice but to leave the cord device in place on JonBenet and hope for the best.

 

[angelnsb]

TRIP DEMUTH: "You say he would give JonBenet attention. Would he play with her?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Not really. I mean I sort of kept an eyeball there, because he was a little bit older, you know."

BlueCrab

This seems very unusual and odd statement about a 6 year old girl. When responding about paying attention to JB, Patsy states He kept an eyeball there??? What is that supposed to mean??? That whole statement is odd. If an young teen was keeping an eyeball on my 6 year old girl, I would be very concerned. This whole statement strikes me as odd.

 

[BlueCrab]

This seems very unusual and odd statement about a 6 year old girl. When responding about paying attention to JB, Patsy states He kept an eyeball there??? What is that supposed to mean??? That whole statement is odd. If an young teen was keeping an eyeball on my 6 year old girl, I would be very concerned. This whole statement strikes me as odd.

angelnsb,

You mis-read Patsy's comment. Patsy said SHE kept an eyeball there -- meaning she was careful to not let them be alone together, etc.

 

[angelnsb]

angelnsb,

You mis-read Patsy's comment. Patsy said SHE kept an eyeball there -- meaning she was careful to not let them be alone together, etc.

:doh: DUH! Okay I got it now. I guess I need more coffee this morning, I am not awake yet. So Patsy felt that the boy needed to be watched, that raises a lot of questions for me. Thanks.

 

[BlueCrab]

So Patsy felt that the boy needed to be watched, that raises a lot of questions for me. Thanks.

angelnsb,

Okay, here's more info. LV lived next door to the Ramseys.

TOM HANEY: "What about him, how much time did he spend at your place, who did he play with?

PATSY RAMSEY: "You know, I mean he wasn't in our house really very much. He was with Burke and certainly JonBenet, but he was a very sweet child and would give JonBenet attention. You know, even when she was real little, he would stoop down and talk with her and all that. And she, she was -- I thought was a child that could have a little crush, you know, she sort of liked him, because he was soft spoken and gentle and you know. Pretty features and you know, just a nice little boy. She would get kind of flush she -- sort of around him or something."

"A lot of the neighborhood boys came over and would play video games with Burke. And WG, one of the children from the couple next door."

TRIP DEMUTH: "How old was WG?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "He was a couple of years older than Burke. So they would all congregate at our house because we had the swing and the porch and sandbox and the videos and all that."

TRIP DEMUTH: "When you say they would congregate, would they come and go from your house sort of?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yeah, the C boys would get in the refrigerator, get a glass of milk and cookies."

TRIP DEMUTH: "So was your house kind of an open house for the local kids?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

TOM HANEY: "You mentioned the C's. They are quite a bit older than your kids, right?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, EC was nearly Burke's age, he was like a year older. And KC was two, three years older, but very young acting, you know, still like roller blading and Nintendo and that kind of thing."

TOM HANEY: "And they spent a lot of time?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

BlueCrab

 

[angelnsb]

BC,


thanks for the information. I don't remember reading this before, I must have missed it. Certainly is worth taking a look at. I am fairly to to JB case and I have been trying to read up on it. I was relying mostly on A Candy Rose for my information but it seems that website is down right now.

 

[BlueCrab]

BC,

thanks for the information. I don't remember reading this before, I must have missed it. (

angelnsb,

You didn't miss it. It wasn't there. A lot of the stuff involving Burke and his friends has been edited out of the information provided to the public. The official coverup involving the JonBenet Ramsey case is huge.

 

[UKGuy]

angelnsb,

Okay, here's more info. LV lived next door to the Ramseys.

TOM HANEY: "What about him, how much time did he spend at your place, who did he play with?

PATSY RAMSEY: "You know, I mean he wasn't in our house really very much. He was with Burke and certainly JonBenet, but he was a very sweet child and would give JonBenet attention. You know, even when she was real little, he would stoop down and talk with her and all that. And she, she was -- I thought was a child that could have a little crush, you know, she sort of liked him, because he was soft spoken and gentle and you know. Pretty features and you know, just a nice little boy. She would get kind of flush she -- sort of around him or something."

"A lot of the neighborhood boys came over and would play video games with Burke. And WG, one of the children from the couple next door."

TRIP DEMUTH: "How old was WG?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "He was a couple of years older than Burke. So they would all congregate at our house because we had the swing and the porch and sandbox and the videos and all that."

TRIP DEMUTH: "When you say they would congregate, would they come and go from your house sort of?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yeah, the C boys would get in the refrigerator, get a glass of milk and cookies."

TRIP DEMUTH: "So was your house kind of an open house for the local kids?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

TOM HANEY: "You mentioned the C's. They are quite a bit older than your kids, right?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, EC was nearly Burke's age, he was like a year older. And KC was two, three years older, but very young acting, you know, still like roller blading and Nintendo and that kind of thing."

TOM HANEY: "And they spent a lot of time?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

BlueCrab

Interesting quote: "So they would all congregate at our house because we had the swing and the porch and sandbox and the videos and all that."

So obviously Patsy took more than a passing interest in the current video situation, this may be relevant if you consider she constructed the Ransom Note.

.