Fingerprints on Waterglass Identified as Burke's

[BlueCrab]

It's absolutely beyond belief that an intruder would forcefeed pineapple down JBR using rubber gloves so that the police would only find Ramsey prints on their own dishware!

twinkiesmom,

Correct, it's a desperate defense. Yet, that is precisely the position of the RST. They want to minimize the importance of fingerprints. But, historically, fingerprints have likely convicted more criminals than any other single item of forensic evidence.

Fingerprint evidence is something for a jury, fully aware of the pros and cons, to pass judgment on, and it seldom fails to convict.

BlueCrab

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

twinkiesmom,

Correct, it's a desperate defense. Yet, that is precisely the position of the RST. They want to minimize the importance of fingerprints. But, historically, fingerprints have likely convicted more criminals than any other single item of forensic evidence.

Fingerprint evidence is something for a jury, fully aware of the pros and cons, to pass judgment on, and it seldom fails to convict.

BlueCrab

Fingerprint evidence of an intruder would be significant. Fingerprint (or fiber) evidence of a house occupant, who normally handles household items, isn't. If a household flashlight was used to kill JBR, and JR's fingerprints were on them, it would be meaningless.

 

[Brefie]

Fingerprint evidence of an intruder would be significant. Fingerprint (or fiber) evidence of a house occupant, who normally handles household items, isn't. If a household flashlight was used to kill JBR, and JR's fingerprints were on them, it would be meaningless.

I would normally agree, HOWEVER, since no-one will admit to using the bowl and glass, fingerprints are damning.
If we were hearing that yes, I gave JBR fruit and a drink for BR then we all retired, no biggie.
However, we are hearing that NOBODY used those things. Well, fingerprint evidence suggests that somebody is hiding something.

And you are 100% correct on your opening line - Fingerprint evidence of an intruder WOULD be significant - primarily in exonerating the Ramsey's.

 

[hollyjokers]

I'm just now reading PTPM or PMPT, whichever. John says he carried sleeping JonBenet to her room, undressed her, Patsy helped put pj's on her, then he READ to her. I know the experts all say you should read to your children, but doesn't make much sense to read to a sleeping child.

 

[MrsMush99]

hollyjokers, I'm in the middle of reading it for the first time also. I thought I was the only one who hasn't read it yet, LOL. Glad to know I'm not alone.

 

[Brefie]

I'm just now reading PTPM or PMPT, whichever. John says he carried sleeping JonBenet to her room, undressed her, Patsy helped put pj's on her, then he READ to her. I know the experts all say you should read to your children, but doesn't make much sense to read to a sleeping child.

Everytime I read that it gets to me. It's all part of the 'Perfect Parents' image they want to project.

Give me a break, with all of what they had going on at that time, I don't believe for a second that he read to a sleeping child.

 

[hollyjokers]

hollyjokers, I'm in the middle of reading it for the first time also. I thought I was the only one who hasn't read it yet, LOL. Glad to know I'm not alone.

Yeah, we're really on top of it, huh?

 

[MrsMush99]

Yeah, we're really on top of it, huh?

:laugh: That's for sure.

 

[BBB167893]

"Fingerprints of house occupants that are found on household items just doesn't seem very significant. Same goes with fibers."

True enough. BUT, when the occupant says they never saw this item or tries to say it wasn't their "set-up" it becomes significant.

"If a household flashlight was used to kill JBR, and JR's fingerprints were on them, it would be meaningless."

True again, BUT they weren't! Even the batteries inside were wiped down.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Another thing...Nonsleeping 6-year-old children can undress themselves for bed. The sleeping part explains the undressing and the grey shirt fiber evidence.

 

[UKGuy]

"Fingerprints of house occupants that are found on household items just doesn't seem very significant. Same goes with fibers."

True enough. BUT, when the occupant says they never saw this item or tries to say it wasn't their "set-up" it becomes significant.

"If a household flashlight was used to kill JBR, and JR's fingerprints were on them, it would be meaningless."

True again, BUT they weren't! Even the batteries inside were wiped down.

SuperDave,

And why would anyone wipe the batteries ?

If you just killed JonBenet and have decided on the mother of all stagings which includes a sexual assault, ligature strangulation, garrote, head trauma, and the alleged removal of various items e.g. cord, paintbrush end, duct-tape.

Why leave the alleged weapon that killed JonBenet, out on plain view for all to see, why not pocket it and take it with you?

In fact if its only Ramsey fingerprints on the casing, since the killer wore gloves, why not just leave it in the wine-cellar, everything else is there for us to work out how she was killed.

The wiping of the prints demonstrates forward planning, the use of the flashlight, whatever part it played was premeditated.

.

 

[Toltec]

The flashlight clearly belonged to the Ramseys....and the so-called intruder would not need to wipe the batteries.

Not only do I believe the flashlight was what struck JonBenet...but I also believe it was used as light while Patsy composed the ransom note. This flashlight is what the neighbor saw on that night..."an eerie light as if someone were moving around."

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I would normally agree, HOWEVER, since no-one will admit to using the bowl and glass, fingerprints are damning.
If we were hearing that yes, I gave JBR fruit and a drink for BR then we all retired, no biggie.
However, we are hearing that NOBODY used those things. Well, fingerprint evidence suggests that somebody is hiding something.

And you are 100% correct on your opening line - Fingerprint evidence of an intruder WOULD be significant - primarily in exonerating the Ramsey's.

My childhood memories of Christmas night don't involve anything even close to a late night snack. It was much more like late night sleep. I can't believe the stories conjured up here on how much energy these people supposedly had in the middle of Christmas night.

If I were a filicidal parent, I would've put it off.

 

[dingo]

The flashlight clearly belonged to the Ramseys....and the so-called intruder would not need to wipe the batteries.

Not only do I believe the flashlight was what struck JonBenet...but I also believe it was used as light while Patsy composed the ransom note. This flashlight is what the neighbor saw on that night..."an eerie light as if someone were moving around."

Makes sense to me

 

[BBB167893]

True enough.

"If you just killed JonBenet and have decided on the mother of all stagings which includes a sexual assault, ligature strangulation, garrote, head trauma, and the alleged removal of various items e.g. cord, paintbrush end, duct-tape."

UKGuy, like you, I have sometimes considered a premeditated killing, but I have never come up with a motive that satisfied the little man (my gut). Lay it on me, man.

"If I were a filicidal parent, I would've put it off."

That's comforting.

 

[UKGuy]

True enough.

"If you just killed JonBenet and have decided on the mother of all stagings which includes a sexual assault, ligature strangulation, garrote, head trauma, and the alleged removal of various items e.g. cord, paintbrush end, duct-tape."

UKGuy, like you, I have sometimes considered a premeditated killing, but I have never come up with a motive that satisfied the little man (my gut). Lay it on me, man.

"If I were a filicidal parent, I would've put it off."

That's comforting.

SuperDave,

Now its a subtle point but I think many of you consider that when I suggest premeditation, or forward planning I'm referring to JonBenet's death?

Well its only the use of the flashlight to which I'm suggesting there was premeditation.

I dont think she was killed by the flashlight, but I cannot rule it out, I think the flashlight played a role in a subsequent staging by John Ramsey.

John acquired the flashlight at some point either checked the batteries or added new ones , then headed down to the basement, probably by the spiral staircase, to do some considered staging, later leaving it the kitchen area, wiped clean.

This is not staging, its evidence removal, the requirement to do this must have been foreseen.

.

 

[Brefie]

If I were a filicidal parent, I would've put it off.

Few people believe anyone PLANNED to kill JBR. At least of the RDI's.
You can't 'put off' finishing the job on a half dead child you didn't REALLY mean to harm.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Few people believe anyone PLANNED to kill JBR. At least of the RDI's.
You can't 'put off' finishing the job on a half dead child you didn't REALLY mean to harm.

Yeah right.

Those spikes on the ends of the murder weapon, that second ligature that you just don't know how it was used, and that 'behead' a six year old while 'we' think about killing more 'fat cats,' has really got me thinking about someone who didn't really mean to harm anyone.

 

[Nehemiah]

I'm just now reading PTPM or PMPT, whichever. John says he carried sleeping JonBenet to her room, undressed her, Patsy helped put pj's on her, then he READ to her. I know the experts all say you should read to your children, but doesn't make much sense to read to a sleeping child.

John later said that he didn't say that; he said that the BPD got that wrong. He later said that he read himself before falling asleep. Guess we'll never know...

 

[rashomon]

The simpler explanation is she had the pineapple at ~10 pm when they got home from the party. If she was killed at 1 am, that would have given some time for the pineapple to travel to her small intestine. I don't believe she was asleep when they got home.

And imo the reason why Patsy was so adamant in her testimony about not giving JB any pineapple after returning home was that she couldn't packpedal re her previous (false imo) testimony that JB had been asleep when they got home.