FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[Velouria]

I think GZ made a number of mistakes but his past calls to 911 indicate he was the type of guy that just could not let things go. jmo

No kidding. :notgood:

GZ even called to report children playing in the street, for crying out loud. That was clearly an issue for the HOA to address, not the police. Methinks he just liked talking to LE because it made him feel like he was one of them.

Now if I were going to pick a branch of LE to identify with, you can bet the Sanford Police wouldn't even make the list.

IMO.

 

[jjenny]

This one witness said it was GZ screaming for help and that he told GZ he was calling 911. Ok, let's assume this guy didn't have a cell and had to go to his apt for a phone. He lives upstairs and that's where he heads. Once on the stairs his back is toward GZ and Trayvon and the fight. Evidently he (the witness) didn't know about the gun either - because if you saw a fight with a gun why in the world would you turn your back? You could be caught in the crossfire.

I'm thinking this witness lived upstairs in either one of the buildings that they were between. Ok, so he runs to the stairs and heads upstairs - where GZ and Trayvon were - it was between the back of both buildings. So, once at the top of the stairs this guy had to go down the hallway/walkway to get to his door. The walkways were on the other side of each building - he was completely and totally out of sight of this fight now. Which leads me to believe that's when the shot rang out - he heard it - but saw nothing because he was on the opposite side of the building. Once in his apt - he ran to the back to look out the window and that's when he saw Trayvon face down.

If that is what happened - this guy isn't much of a witness. He saw the beginning of the fight and ran off and out of sight. He saw nothing of the shooting and who was where when it happened.


JMHO

How is he not much of a witness? He saw part of the fight. As far as I understand Mary C didn't see any of the fight (only heard what she says was crying), but I don't see many people suggesting she isn't "much of a witness." By the way it might be that these condos are two story condos in which case he would go upstairs of his unit.

 

[jjenny]

Did I read it correctly that this man also took time to lock his door? Some people would have run over to yell at them to stop and some people just will not get involved. To think he could have helped when GZ was asking for help and didn't, things could have turned out differently....or he could have been shot. It would have been better all around if GZ had just kept TM in sight from his truck or done as LE suggested wait for the patrol car to get there. jmo

We just spend how many threads arguing that it's bad for private citizens to interfere in any situations they deem "suspicious" and that instead these private citizens should call police and do nothing themselves. Now we are going to argue that this guy should have interfered in a physical fight? I hope not.

 

[annalia]

No it doesn't make sense.

And we know what all of the other witnesses stated because police released the 911 calls from that night, including the one that would be seen as the most volatile, the one that could potentially sway a jury and opinion the most, GZ's own 911 call.

But this guy's 911 call was left out?

Sorry, just doesn't pass the smell test. Don't buy it.

Sad to say that I wouldn't put it past them to be working on 'tweaking' the information to cover all of their butts.

But even if this is true, it still doesn't say that GZ was attacked or that Tray at some point was on the receiving end of a fight.

That's why a thorough investigation was required and not the Chief of Police immediately coming out acting as GZ's defense attorney and convicting the victim.

JMHO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

How is he not much of a witness? He saw part of the fight. As far as I understand Mary C didn't see any of the fight (only heard what she says was crying), but I don't see many people suggesting she isn't "much of a witness." By the way it might be that these condos are two story condos in which case he would go upstairs of his unit.

Anything favorable to GZ is being minimized and discounted imo

 

[Velouria]

I respectfully disagree I feel the stand your ground law is just fine... In fact I think more States should adopt it.

Anyhow I do agree that your likely correct that this new investigation won't suit the taste of those committed to a witch hunt. The lead prosecutor: Angela Corey said. "The stand-your-ground law is one portion of justifiable use of deadly force, And what that means is that the state must go forward and be able to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt… So it makes the case in general more difficult than a normal criminal case."

BBM

The "witch hunt" mentality is what got us here in the first place, IMO.

GZ singled out TM because of his appearance and took it upon himself to play cop, when he should have waited for real LE to handle the situation.

 

[jjenny]

No it doesn't make sense.

And we know what all of the other witnesses stated because police released the 911 calls from that night, including the one that would be seen as the most volatile, the one that could potentially sway a jury and opinion the most, GZ's own 911 call.

But this guy's 911 call was left out?

Sorry, just doesn't pass the smell test. Don't buy it.

Sad to say that I wouldn't put it past them to be working on 'tweaking' the information to cover all of their butts.

But even if this is true, it still doesn't say that GZ was attacked or that Tray at some point was on the receiving end of a fight.

That's why a thorough investigation was required and not the Chief of Police immediately coming out acting as GZ's defense attorney and convicting the victim.

JMHO

How do you know his call was left out?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

How is he not much of a witness? He saw part of the fight. As far as I understand Mary C didn't see any of the fight (only heard what she says was crying), but I don't see many people suggesting she isn't "much of a witness." By the way it might be that these condos are two story condos in which case he would go upstairs of his unit.

The buildings are two story and he obviously lived upstairs. As for Mary C - she says it was Trayvon screaming. Could have been - but, then again, maybe not.

Eyewitnesses to crimes are notoriously know to be wrong - not because they want to be - just that everybody sees different things and everybody reacts to violent situations differently.

The old story about 7 people standing around and a white van pulls up and snatches a kid - right in front of them. LE will get each statement. Some will say it was a gray van; others might say it was an SUV. If either the driver or passenger were visible even for a second - the descriptions from the witnesses will vary greatly as to what he/she looked like.

Attorneys do not like to rely on just eyewitnesses without have evidence to back up their story.

While I've heard from a few witnesses - I want to see more evidence than just who says what. But that's JMHO

 

[daisy7]

I don't know if this was posted already, but here is the link to RH's blog he referenced on the radio show.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

 

[jjenny]

The buildings are two story and he obviously lived upstairs. As for Mary C - she says it was Trayvon screaming. Could have been - but, then again, maybe not.

Eyewitnesses to crimes are notoriously know to be wrong - not because they want to be - just that everybody sees different things and everybody reacts to violent situations differently.

The old story about 7 people standing around and a white van pulls up and snatches a kid - right in front of them. LE will get each statement. Some will say it was a gray van; others might say it was an SUV. If either the driver or passenger were visible even for a second - the descriptions from the witnesses will vary greatly as to what he/she looked like.

Attorneys do not like to rely on just eyewitnesses without have evidence to back up their story.

While I've heard from a few witnesses - I want to see more evidence than just who says what. But that's JMHO

I am surprised neither of the witnesses got a cell phone out and took videos of the fight (that we know of).

 

[thefragile7393]

There is evidence of it. GZ had injuries and a witness said Trayvon was on top of GZ in a fight. What more is needed?

He felt threatened by GZ and may have been the first one to strike. Here's a guy following you and stalking you, then he comes out of his car and comes toward you. Some people flee, some stand their ground. GZ is still the aggressor because, in this scenario, Trayvon felt like HIS life was in danger. HE was also the one unarmed! Trayvon still had only his fists while GZ had his gun. I would think the one with the gun wins in this situation.

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[Marshmallow]

There is evidence of it. GZ had injuries and a witness said Trayvon was on top of GZ in a fight. What more is needed?

when accosted by a stranger who was following himand may have beena threat, why is it beyond belief that Mr Martin may have been attempting to defend himself? it seems so easy for many to justify the killing of Mr Martin as some kind of 'self defense'by Mr Zimmerman but not that Mr Martin may have been fighting off an attack. Mr Zimmerman had his car to stay in if he really felt threatened, Mr Martin had nowhere to hide from his attacker.

 

[Velouria]

Anything favorable to GZ is being minimized and discounted imo

The amount of evidence favorable to GZ IS minimal, IMO.

 

[daisy7]

How do you know his call was left out?

AFAIK, it hasn't been posted anywhere. Do you have a link to it?

 

[nursebeeme]

this morning on NPR (was listening live) while making my dear son pancakes I heard that this will go to the grand jury next month.

I am glad.

And I am also glad I don't live in a subdivision with neighborhood watch people roaming around with guns.

 

[annalia]

How do you know his call was left out?

Because I listened to all of the 911 calls on the police website?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I am surprised neither of the witnesses got a cell phone out and took videos of the fight (that we know of).

BINGO!!!!! And Daisy wins the stuffed puppy.

This is what I'm saying - why is all the evidence, that supposedly supports GZ being surppressed and not released? Does it really exist? What do they have?

I'm not saying release it all - but a few good photos and possibly a statement from the ME concerning the autopsy would go a long long long way at calming the masses. Yet, this isn't happening.

Its kinda like SPD is standing their ground and muttering "its the way we said it was, tough noogies iffen you don't like it, we don't have to show you anything".

JMHO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

He felt threatened by GZ and may have been the first one to strike. Here's a guy following you and stalking you, then he comes out of his car and comes toward you. Some people flee, some stand their ground. GZ is still the aggressor because, in this scenario, Trayvon felt like HIS life was in danger. HE was also the one unarmed! Trayvon still had only his fists while GZ had his gun. I would think the one with the gun wins in this situation.

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If TM was the first one to strike then GZ was probably justified in shooting, given that we know TM had the upper hand at one point during the fight.

 

[beach]

ATTN:

About to open a new thread so gather your notes and get ready to move over.


Closing in 5....




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[thefragile7393]

whit seems so easy for many to justify the killing of Mr Martin as some kind of 'self defense'by Mr Zimmerman but not that Mr Martin may have been fighting off an attack. Mr Zimmerman had his car to stay in if he really felt threatened, Mr Martin had nowhere to hide from his attacker.

He had a car and a gun...more than what trayvon had. Granted at the time he likely didn't know that Trayvon wasn't carrying a weapon but still-if you feel your life is threatened, stay in the car! Why get out and the risk of the other party having a gun? Listen to the dispatcher and BACK OFF. If a fight was started by either party Trayvon still only had his fists and nothing more. GZ was the threat because he had the gun and the willpower to scare and put a kid on the defensive, provoking an attack (IF that is what happened). An opinion with my own reasoning only, nothing more.

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