Do we know this for a fact ?
FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12
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Truth Prevails
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Not exactly "almost as soon as it was found".
Law enforcement returned it to the family after they finished processing it--around February 17, 2006.
The Kesses promptly returned it to the leasing company stating they couldn't bear to even look at it.
Yes, indeed. Crucial error.
I'm sure law enforcement would have official police photos of where in the vehicle the fiber containing the incomplete DNA profile and the partial print were found, though.
For some reason, they don't want us to know that.
As well, they kept the contents of the trunk and that's a secret to this day, too. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse say they don't know what-all was in there, either. They have apparently never been told.
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Mud, and specific plant parts caught on the undercarriage of her car could have told something maybe
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The link no longer works, but it looks like they gathered the appropriate samples.
Unless they feel it's warranted to apply subtle pressure to the POI as we see by their releasing they found a partial print and a fiber with DNA, it's standard operating procedure for law enforcement to not release details of this nature in an open investigation.
Unless they feel it's warranted to apply subtle pressure to the POI as we see by their releasing they found a partial print and a fiber with DNA, it's standard operating procedure for law enforcement to not release details of this nature in an open investigation.
This is true, but I really,really wonder what was in the trunk..
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Does law enforcement have reason to believe Jennifer was in the trunk of her own vehicle--is what I really, really wonder.
I think they do.
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We agree. Unfortunately, thinking or suspecting something doesn't mean it's fact. But if it is true, it's likely they found more evidence in the trunk than they are letting on.
Christopher George lived in Apopka and was reported missing Feb. 11, 2009 after he was last seen with James Hataway and Tyler Watters.
The following day, officers found Hataway and Watters coming out of the woods on Ocoee-Apopka Road near Lake Carter, where the remains were found.
Hataway and Watters said George was on a hallucinogenic drug and ran into woods. The men told an Apopka officer they were searching the woods for him but couldn't find him. Both men have refused to talk to police.
Bones found Christopher George: Bones found in Apopka are Christopher George
The following day, officers found Hataway and Watters coming out of the woods on Ocoee-Apopka Road near Lake Carter, where the remains were found.
Hataway and Watters said George was on a hallucinogenic drug and ran into woods. The men told an Apopka officer they were searching the woods for him but couldn't find him. Both men have refused to talk to police.
Bones found Christopher George: Bones found in Apopka are Christopher George
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Yes, but, there is the article in the spoiler below as far as rebuttal from what appeared in main stream media articles.
And please don't think I am in any way defending James Hataway. I believe he belongs in prison and hope they find a way to keep him there for the rest of his natural life. I offer him no compassion.
I am simply adding the following in an effort to keep Jennifer Kesse's thread on this board somewhat fact based.
The allegations regarding the murders of other women prior to 2007 could all be a can of baloney from a drug addict. It appears that LE investigated.
Snipped quote: The man who wrote the letter claims he knew Hataway and Hataway's ex-girlfriend. He even sent out a map showing where police could find evidence linking Hataway to three murders.
WFTV also tracked down someone who knew Hataway intimately. She claims the guy wants his 15 minutes of fame.
The man, claiming to have dated one of Hataway's ex-girlfriends, sent a letter to Ocasio's dad, Joe, claiming the ex-girlfriend admitted to being involved in three murders with Hataway prior to 2007.
The map he sent shows Little Lake Barton, where he said a body and a gun were tossed; then, just blocks away, Lake Susannah near Baldwin Park has more evidence from yet another crime.
WFTV tracked down that ex-girlfriend Tuesday. She does not want to be identified.
"That's hilarious," she told WFTV.
"It's a joke to you?" WFTV reporter Liz Artz asked.
"Yeah, five seconds of fame. That's what he wants," she said.
The woman said the man making these claims is addicted to drugs and for a long time wanted to get back in a relationship with her. They dated in 2007 and she can't figure out why now he's going public with what she calls false accusations.
"There's obviously no bodies, there's no guns, there's nothing. I'm not even worried about this," she said.
Regardless, Ocoee police are still following up on the lead. They said a detective was driving to Lakeland to interview the tipster Tuesday.
Detectives say they follow every lead until they can conclude it's not credible.
Strange Letter, Map Emerge In Tracy Ocasio Case
WFTV also tracked down someone who knew Hataway intimately. She claims the guy wants his 15 minutes of fame.
The man, claiming to have dated one of Hataway's ex-girlfriends, sent a letter to Ocasio's dad, Joe, claiming the ex-girlfriend admitted to being involved in three murders with Hataway prior to 2007.
The map he sent shows Little Lake Barton, where he said a body and a gun were tossed; then, just blocks away, Lake Susannah near Baldwin Park has more evidence from yet another crime.
WFTV tracked down that ex-girlfriend Tuesday. She does not want to be identified.
"That's hilarious," she told WFTV.
"It's a joke to you?" WFTV reporter Liz Artz asked.
"Yeah, five seconds of fame. That's what he wants," she said.
The woman said the man making these claims is addicted to drugs and for a long time wanted to get back in a relationship with her. They dated in 2007 and she can't figure out why now he's going public with what she calls false accusations.
"There's obviously no bodies, there's no guns, there's nothing. I'm not even worried about this," she said.
Regardless, Ocoee police are still following up on the lead. They said a detective was driving to Lakeland to interview the tipster Tuesday.
Detectives say they follow every lead until they can conclude it's not credible.
Strange Letter, Map Emerge In Tracy Ocasio Case
Yes, this is an interesting point to note regarding tiny pieces of information that may [or may not] give us the glimmer of belief that Jennifer was in the trunk of her own vehicle at some point.
Others for me are:
- LE seized only the contents of the trunk of Jennifer's vehicle, never itemizing and releasing a list even for Jenn's parents.
- LE has never revealed where "in the vehicle" the fiber and partial print were actually found.
- No pictures of the inside of the trunk of Jennifer's vehicle have ever been released, but plenty of pictures of the vehicle interior were.
- LE called the car the "crime scene".
- Jennifer's parents could not stand to look at the vehicle once it was released, but they lived in her condo for about 8 months.
Yes--I certainly see similarities. The big, big, big difference that I see, though, is that Tracy visited that bar by herself, stayed there for a reasonable period of time, and appears to have willing gave Hataway what she believed would simply be a drive to his residence.
And that is the almost exact MO he used in the Rachel Clark case--except they began at a bar and moved the party to a private residence. IIRC, Rachel was encouraged to give him a drive home by "friends". (Poor advice--it almost led to her death).
But how would he have gotten Jennifer? There is nothing to suggest that she went to a bar or a house party after 10 o'clock on a Monday evening. There is also nothing to suggest that safety conscious Jennifer Kesse would ever put herself in a situation where she would be alone and offer to give a man she knew only socially a drive home.
Could he have been stalking her and decided to knock on her condo door asking for a drive? Anything is possible--but would Jennifer have swallowed such a story quickly and willing?
And Hataway, himself, all he had to do was walk into a bar and pick-up a woman. Why go to all the trouble to seek out Jennifer?
I hope someone can explain to me in such a way that I can except how that might have occurred.
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Again, I offer the following only in an effort to keep this thread fact based.
Snipped quote: George also said she doesn't believe James Hataway, the man who police consider a person of interest in the case, killed her son.
"He was with Jimmy Hataway that weekend," George said. "When he left Jimmy Hataway, he was with Tyler Waters. Tyler Waters is the last person that was seen with Chris."
Mother: I Don't Think Hataway Killed My Son
Snipped quote: Police Chief Robert Manley also took Rachael George, whose son Chris disappeared near the lake two years ago, to see for herself how thoroughly they're searching. She's been critical of the Apopka Police Department and, even though Thursday she used the word "evil" when asked about Hataway, a possible suspect in her son's disappearance, Friday she said if her son was murdered she doesn't believe Hataway did it.
"I think his whereabouts are accounted for during that time. However, he was involved in the cleaning of the vehicle, and the staging of the vehicle," Rachael George told WFTV.
Missing Man's Mom Says Hataway Didn't Kill Son
Snipped quote: But a new report showed George's death may have been an accident. The medical examiner said he suspects George was under the influence of drugs when he ran into the vegetation around the lake and became incapacitated and drowned.
The medical examiner said there was no trauma to the bones and water levels were higher back in 2009 at the spot where his remains were found. The medical examiner said he ruled George's death as undetermined.
Med. Examiner: Accident Could Have Caused Death
"He was with Jimmy Hataway that weekend," George said. "When he left Jimmy Hataway, he was with Tyler Waters. Tyler Waters is the last person that was seen with Chris."
Mother: I Don't Think Hataway Killed My Son
Snipped quote: Police Chief Robert Manley also took Rachael George, whose son Chris disappeared near the lake two years ago, to see for herself how thoroughly they're searching. She's been critical of the Apopka Police Department and, even though Thursday she used the word "evil" when asked about Hataway, a possible suspect in her son's disappearance, Friday she said if her son was murdered she doesn't believe Hataway did it.
"I think his whereabouts are accounted for during that time. However, he was involved in the cleaning of the vehicle, and the staging of the vehicle," Rachael George told WFTV.
Missing Man's Mom Says Hataway Didn't Kill Son
Snipped quote: But a new report showed George's death may have been an accident. The medical examiner said he suspects George was under the influence of drugs when he ran into the vegetation around the lake and became incapacitated and drowned.
The medical examiner said there was no trauma to the bones and water levels were higher back in 2009 at the spot where his remains were found. The medical examiner said he ruled George's death as undetermined.
Med. Examiner: Accident Could Have Caused Death
I want to be perfectly clear here--I hope Hataway not only spends the rest of his natural life in prison, I hope there is some special kind of hell constructed just for him when he departs his life on earth.
Do I believe he is responsible for Tracy Ocasio's disappearance? You bet I do.
But for Jennifer Kesse? I don't know. I don't believe any of us do know.
Joe Ocasio said that he was frustrated that there was so much circumstantial evidence that pointed to Hataway being responsible for Tracy's disappearance, but no case. Its all just a coincidence because there's no body, right? According to Police Yes!
Yeah Chris was looking to "get clean" but perhaps his so-called circle of friends did not want him clean? Both Hataway and Watters statements did not match and they failed the polygraphs. I mean Chris' remains were found at the bottom of Carter Lake with Hataway and Watters near that scene the day after he disappeared. Is this not factual but just a mere coincidence just because Chris's body could not be found that day? Yes, even though Police found them positioning his truck in a way to make it look like an accident. His wallet was found. And was there any money in it or not? It is believed he had money to cover for a down payment on his truck. He was looking to get "clean" himself, but his circle of so-called friends could have that many dollar-reasons to prevent him from doing so.
I don't doubt this man's testimony regarding this woman being a purported accomplice to 3 homicides is true. She says she has nothing to worry about, yet does not want to be identified. Why not? She didn't deny dating him or deny even deny knowing Hataway. Why not? If this guy's drug addiction was such a problem to her then why was she dating him? A good detective might say that this man's account is too descriptive and too detailed to be discounted as false.
Hataway was a serial predator who needed no reason not to make even Jenn disappear, without a trace just because he could. He didn't have to get her all alone by herself because she already was. Somebody wanted Jenn to disappear, and someone (POI) could deliver her to one who could make that happen. And that was Hataway.
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Law enforcement wants more on Hataway than what they currently have him sitting in prison for--that's why they spent their time, resources and plenty of money looking into each and every one of these allegations. If they would have found enough to bring charges, I believe we would have seen that happen by now.
In Jennifer's case--if I'm understanding you correctly--you believe he sent one of his friend's to pick her up and deliver her to him?
Anything is possible, I guess.
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Interesting explanation on why jenns parents returned the car so soon , if they had info of her being in the boot(or blood?) , you could understand they would want rid of it ! Plus if she had returned safely it could be easily replaced.
But why the police never seized and stored it is weird?
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I find it weird, too; but I was thinking about this the other day, and I realized that all crime scenes eventually get released--a house where a murder occurred, for example, or an apartment or condo--eventually the yellow tape comes down. So, I guess, that left me contemplating why not a car, too? It still bothers me, though.
Another thought I had was could Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have requested the release of Jennifer's vehicle in order to return it to the leasing company so the payments would stop? I know that may sound a little bit odd, but financial matters would still have to be dealt with, no matter what the circumstances.
I was wondering if LE found evidence, say, of a "heavy object" being in the trunk. (ie, boot) You know how the trunk bottoms are only pressed cardboard and the spare tire, jack, etc are underneath? Of course, I don't mean to suggest Jenn was heavy, but might a normal body weight cause that bottom to bow? (Like, make a depression)?
I'm thinking they had her wrapped in something, or else they should have found some hair--unless they did.
I feel fairly sure she was wrapped. Probably in a tarp, some type of plastic. But by returning the crime scene ( vehicle), it can never be tested with any new forensic tests which are developed. I know that crime scenes, such as cars, are returned following trials, but this was the only crime site LE had.
something just came to my mind
the mace in the kitchen is a hint that it all happaned in the apt.
I read somewhere that jennifer took the mace out of the key chain before the trip.
I don't think she did it because
Jennifer didn't need the keys on the trip.
no reason for her to take the mace out of the key ring if she left it all st Robb's house.
But even if she did ,she would put it back on the key chain before she returned home .
jennifer would wanted to have the mace with her when coming back to her apt. she wss a safety person.
This is why i don't think she left the mace at her place before the trip.
she drove to Robb left her bruefcase , key chain and other things and when she returned from the trip took it vacm with her.
i think the predator was in the apt and he put the mace on the kitchen table or jennifer trued to use it agsinst him but he overpowered her took it and out it and left it in the kitchen as a hint for the police thst something terrible happanned.
the mace in the kitchen is a hint that it all happaned in the apt.
I read somewhere that jennifer took the mace out of the key chain before the trip.
I don't think she did it because
Jennifer didn't need the keys on the trip.
no reason for her to take the mace out of the key ring if she left it all st Robb's house.
But even if she did ,she would put it back on the key chain before she returned home .
jennifer would wanted to have the mace with her when coming back to her apt. she wss a safety person.
This is why i don't think she left the mace at her place before the trip.
she drove to Robb left her bruefcase , key chain and other things and when she returned from the trip took it vacm with her.
i think the predator was in the apt and he put the mace on the kitchen table or jennifer trued to use it agsinst him but he overpowered her took it and out it and left it in the kitchen as a hint for the police thst something terrible happanned.
Or, Jennifer had the mace with her in the apartment because something had unnerved her that last night. Perhaps another knock at her door. It was such a short amount of time that she was on the phone with her BF, and the phone supposedly pinged away from her apartment, and was then disabled. Someone likely came to the door. So hard to imagine that she let anyone in, especially if she was in her sleeping clothes. The only people I could see her opening her door to that night would be her family or a trusted girl friend. But, hasn't LE been a bit cagey about discussing ALL of her phone contacts for that evening ? Could someone she spoke with earlier have stopped by ? Still doesn't explain her opening her door with her pj's on. Unless she showered and changed before the anonymous person came over. I can't see it though.
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Snipped and EBM.
I agree with your points, but I wish people would stop using euphemisms. Even if Jennifer's remains are found, she will not be "brought home;" she'll be taken to a morgue, then to an evidence room, and then to a graveyard.
Using euphemisms dilutes the horror of what was done to her, and she deserves to have people acknowledge that horror unadulterated.
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It's about respect. Respect to Jennifer Kesse and to her parents and loved ones.
Sometimes I feel I'm too detailed in my descriptions and I always regret it when I go back and re-read my comments. I wish I had taken more care and chosen more gentle words; or found a better way; or just not have typed it.
But.
I never regret it when I say that Jennifer should be brought home to rest with her family. It's about the circle of life, and the dignity, and finding our final place. With our loved ones.
It's about reclaiming what was taken from us--as best as we can.
Sometimes I feel I'm too detailed in my descriptions and I always regret it when I go back and re-read my comments. I wish I had taken more care and chosen more gentle words; or found a better way; or just not have typed it.
But.
I never regret it when I say that Jennifer should be brought home to rest with her family. It's about the circle of life, and the dignity, and finding our final place. With our loved ones.
It's about reclaiming what was taken from us--as best as we can.
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