FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #38

[New1]

He pleads "not guilty" to charges that include his photo on materials found in his possession; guess he missed out learning as a kid on the part about truth vs lie.
I'm beginning to think (like New) that LE needs to move on charges related to Somer.... if they have something to move on. While JH's *advertiser censored*/molestation should keep him in jail til he is an old man.... the community needs to know whether LE has some evidence directly related to Somer or if there is still a killer out there who is responsible. Seems there has been enough time to make this determination. If JH is not the one, LE needs to give the public more information. I think many are just relaxing thinking that JH is the person who killed Somer. No one in that area needs to relax until the truth is known.

Question for legal folks: in the process, what will be happening/will be discussed at the April 8th court appearance?

BBM

I'm not a legal person, but I think they will set his trial date then - unless, of course, he is charged with more crimes. I can't think of any other reason for another court appearance on April 8th. He has already been charged and arraigned, so next should be the setting of a trial date on those charges. Do you think he will want a speedy trial, or will he waive that right?

 

[eyes4crime]

You might try looking in Lucedale, MS.

His step-brother was at UAB, iirc - Univ of Alabama. Some Univ in Alabama - now that I'm writing it, I don't know for sure. Dunno if they had any kind of relationship. [This is the son of the sci-fi/religious/polygamy step-father.]

Try tracking his mom and her husbands through marriages. For Fla, go to
www.myfloridacounty.com
And there is a search for people tab that allows you to search O.R. [official records.]

<sorry for just jumping in here - prolly need to catch up with what your doing before I post>

Thanks for the info - I actually have the name of the 4 husbands, just not how long she was with each and if Jarrad was with her. I read he went to a jr. college, can't remember which one or if he lived at home while going.

IIRC - this topic got several of us banned so, for the sake of all of us, I need to drop it. For some reason I'm always interested in the formative years. lol

 

[Dee10]

http://jacksonville.com/community/c...ot_guilty_to_child_porn_molestation_charges_b

Clay County jail records released to the Times-Union today show that Harrell has had two sets of visitors: his public defenders and, last week, his mother, Annis Dailey. Those meetings were not recorded, authorities said. Dailey, in a phone call she had with her son when he was being held in Mississippi, spoke of providing him an alibi if he was ever charged in the Somer Thompson case. Dailey has not returned several Times-Union messages seeking comment.

 

[eyes4crime]

I agree with you that he should be put away for the child *advertiser censored*, but I am beginning to think they have NOTHING on him in connection to Somer's death except the fact that he lived on the street she was last seen on. They have his vehicle, they have his DNA. I do not believe they are just waiting for an air-tight case against him before they charge him with murder. I believe they want SOMEBODY arrested for this murder as soon as they can. I know about the speedy trial thing if he is charged with murder, but that does not mean that he will GET a speedy trial. He can waive his rights to a speedy trail --look at how long Casey Anthony has been in jail without a trial. Investigators will have plenty of time to make an air-tight case for murder while JH is serving his sentence for child *advertiser censored*, if he is convicted.

Two examples: Casey Anthony and Drew Peterson both waived their right to a speedy trial - Casey is looking at the death penalty and Drew's defense team wants to fight the hearsay law and who knows what else.

Jarred has NOT been charged with murder - there is no need for him to waive his right to a speedy trial.

I see what you mean about the people in the area needing to know WHO the murderer is - some people want Jarred charged with the murder of Somer and it's not happening right now. There are many murderers who get away with it their entire life - due to a technicality or lack of forensic evidence, or jury sympathy the person gets off. There are no guarantees that criminals will be succesfully prosecuted. We also don't know if LE are continuing to search for others while Jarred is behind bars. Guess you have to trust LE with this very high profile case. I do! MOO MHO JMO

 

[nursebeeme]

http://jacksonville.com/community/c...ot_guilty_to_child_porn_molestation_charges_b

Clay County jail records released to the Times-Union today show that Harrell has had two sets of visitors: his public defenders and, last week, his mother, Annis Dailey. Those meetings were not recorded, authorities said. Dailey, in a phone call she had with her son when he was being held in Mississippi, spoke of providing him an alibi if he was ever charged in the Somer Thompson case. Dailey has not returned several Times-Union messages seeking comment.

while we know they cannot record lawyer visits I bet you 100 donuts that they taped his mother's visit.

 

[nursebeeme]

is anyone waiting, like me, for the other shoe to drop??? For them to either charge him or say he is not connected???? I don't know how Somer's family can stand the waiting game...

 

[Kimberlyd125]

is anyone waiting, like me, for the other shoe to drop??? For them to either charge him or say he is not connected???? I don't know how Somer's family can stand the waiting game...

Yes, and waiting for that shoe to drop is about to drive me insane.
I agree that I do not know how the family is able to go through this. I wonder if they know more than we do. You know? Like maybe the CCSO has told them some details we don't know.

 

[Noway]

They found SOMETHING in the search of the house on Gano that morning that led them to name him a person of interest that same morning ... which means that they at least wanted him to explain that piece of evidence.

If he didn't kill Somer, he knows what happened to her. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yes, and waiting for that shoe to drop is about to drive me insane.
I agree that I do not know how the family is able to go through this. I wonder if they know more than we do. You know? Like maybe the CCSO has told them some details we don't know.

Just remember my signature line.

 

[New1]

Two examples: Casey Anthony and Drew Peterson both waived their right to a speedy trial - Casey is looking at the death penalty and Drew's defense team wants to fight the hearsay law and who knows what else.

Jarred has NOT been charged with murder - there is no need for him to waive his right to a speedy trial.

I see what you mean about the people in the area needing to know WHO the murderer is - some people want Jarred charged with the murder of Somer and it's not happening right now. There are many murderers who get away with it their entire life - due to a technicality or lack of forensic evidence, or jury sympathy the person gets off. There are no guarantees that criminals will be succesfully prosecuted. We also don't know if LE are continuing to search for others while Jarred is behind bars. Guess you have to trust LE with this very high profile case. I do! MOO MHO JMO

I meant a speedy trial in regards to his arrest for the *advertiser censored* charges. I know he has not been charged with murder.

 

[BeanE]

I think it might be helpful to put together a post with a list of legal questions, and then send them to one or more of the verified attorneys, and ask them if they could drop by the thread and provide some insight.

I *think* I know what LE and the prosecutors are doing with waiting on naming JH a suspect and charging him in relation to Somer, but IANAL, and I would really appreciate input from the attorneys.

JBean has a link in her signature to a thread that lists our verified attorneys.

Would anyone else find this helpful?

For myself, I'd like to know:
- Once JH is named a suspect, does a legal clock start ticking? Do they have a specific length of time in which to charge him?
- What would change with the naming of JH as a suspect that would make it advantageous to the prosecutor or LE to delay it?
- If someone is already held on a number of lesser charges, but charges for a more serious crime are pending, would the prosecutor delay charging to get a more solid case because the person can invoke their right to a speedy trial once they are charged?
- Could it be that they are waiting for a grand jury to convene before bringing murder charges against JH?

 

[nursebeeme]

They found SOMETHING in the search of the house on Gano that morning that led them to name him a person of interest that same morning ... which means that they at least wanted him to explain that piece of evidence.

If he didn't kill Somer, he knows what happened to her. JMO

I agree... but why the wait? Do they not have enough oatmeal on the spoon for it to stick to the wall? I agree about the legal questions BeanE. I think that would help explain the time/progress of the case, etc.

ETA I in no way think this picture~taking~pieceofsh!t is innocent... I am just an impatient open heart nurse LOL

 

[JustyThoughts]

Thanks everyone for your replies and opinions; good point Dr. Fessel re: your signature line. And the wait for more information and facts...... continues.

 

[Sunshine77]

I think it might be helpful to put together a post with a list of legal questions, and then send them to one or more of the verified attorneys, and ask them if they could drop by the thread and provide some insight.

I *think* I know what LE and the prosecutors are doing with waiting on naming JH a suspect and charging him in relation to Somer, but IANAL, and I would really appreciate input from the attorneys.

JBean has a link in her signature to a thread that lists our verified attorneys.

Would anyone else find this helpful?

For myself, I'd like to know:
- Once JH is named a suspect, does a legal clock start ticking? Do they have a specific length of time in which to charge him?
- What would change with the naming of JH as a suspect that would make it advantageous to the prosecutor or LE to delay it?
- If someone is already held on a number of lesser charges, but charges for a more serious crime are pending, would the prosecutor delay charging to get a more solid case because the person can invoke their right to a speedy trial once they are charged?
- Could it be that they are waiting for a grand jury to convene before bringing murder charges against JH?

Traditionally, grand juries served as a shield between unjust prosecution by the state and the individual. Grand juries serve dual functions. The grand jury's primary role is to determine whether sufficient evidence exists to justify indicting an accused individual.1 To make such determinations, a grand jury also serves as an investigating body with subpoena powers.2 In Florida, a grand jury indictment is required only to try a person for a capital offense; i.e., one where the death penalty may be given.3 Otherwise, the state attorney has concurrent authority to file a formal accusation of the commission of a crime (an "information").4 The information is used routinely to charge individuals in Florida. In addition to capital cases, grand juries often are utilized for controversial cases such as those involving alleged wrongdoing by public officials. (BBM)

https://www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/P...penDocument#A report or presentment of the gr

Lots more good information here on grand juries in Florida.

 

[lawlady84]

"Suspect" and "Person of Interest" aren't legal terms - they are just PR terms. Police avoid publicly stating someone is a suspect in a case to avoid getting sued if they're wrong. Especially now in the google-age, if LE calls you a suspect, it can ruin your life/reputation. If LE is wrong, they don't want a defamation suit from an innocent person.

Also, if they name someone a suspect too early on (without then immediately following up on it), the defense can raise the argument "the police obsessed over my client and ignored finding the REAL KILLER!"

The only legal distinctions are once you are "arrested" (taken into custody), and when you are "indicted" (when formal legal charges have been filed after a probable cause hearing/grand jury indictment).

Suspect/person of interest is just psychological. Might put pressure on a guy, might encourage people who found him suspicious to call in their suspicions (without them thinking they are butting in for no reason).

 

[nursebeeme]

In practice, the prosecuting attorney selects those cases he believes warrant prosecution. The prosecutor then determines whether to proceed by indictment or information.

Florida's Grand Jury Structure.

A grand jury must consist of between 15 and 21 persons.5 Grand jurors are appointed for one term of court, normally five to six months of intermittent service

The courts so jealously guard that veil of secrecy they have closed proceedings merely ancillary to the grand jury session

The United States Supreme Court has enumerated the policies underlying grand jury secrecy:
1. The fear that witnesses will not come forward voluntarily if their identity is not protected;
2. The fear that witnesses will be less likely to give full and frank testimony if their identity is known so that they become subject to retribution or inducements;
3. The risk that the indicted will flee if indictments are made public prior to arrest;
4. The danger that a potential defendant might influence the votes of grand jurors; and
5. The protection of the reputation of an individual who is accused but not indicted by the grand jury

Reporters also are free to observe the coming and going of witnesses into the grand jury room. Normally, the state attorney, who guides, counsels and strongly influences the conduct of the grand jury, announces, in general terms, the subject of the grand jury inquiry. Often leaks occur and the diligent reporter may gather information from sources close to the grand jury, the grand jury's target and the court's files themselves.

Of course, there are potential risks involved in publishing grand jury-related information...........further snip..........If information is leaked to the press, the prosecutor or the court might seek to punish the source by contempt.

https://www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/P...badd5b4fce22d788852569cb004cc254!OpenDocument
reason I highlighted #3 was in case, as some have speculated, JH knew someone else involved

 

[Sunshine77]

Trash truck backup caused delay in Somer search

GREEN COVE SPRINGS &#8212; Somer Thompson&#8217;s body may have been found at a Clay County trash site rather than a Georgia landfill if not for a decision to end the local search primarily because of a backup of trash trucks, records and an interview with the county manager show.

An agreement by Alan Altman, Clay&#8217;s director of environmental services, and sheriff&#8217;s deputies combing the trash site on Oct. 20 ended the search, County Manager Fritz Behring said. That prevented an immediate opportunity to find the truck that picked up Somer&#8217;s body, learn the truck&#8217;s route and possibly narrow the location where she was killed and dumped.

Investigators later tried to identify the specific trash truck after Somer&#8217;s body was found Oct. 21, two days after she disappeared. The Sheriff&#8217;s Office said that search, which they called a potential key to helping solve the case, was complicated because the body had been mixed with tons of trash transferred from the Clay site to the Chesser Island Road landfill in Folkston, Ga.

Full article at http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...ash_truck_backup_caused_delay_in_somer_search

ETA: Not that I want to start the whole trash conversation again, 'cause it makes my head spin, but this article seems to go against what was reported earlier. Per this article, there are no known records of which trash trucks were loaded into which trailers, authorities have not said if they know which trash truck picked her up (I thought they had said they narrowed it down), and investigators sought records for a particular truck two weeks ago.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Trash truck backup caused delay in Somer search

GREEN COVE SPRINGS — Somer Thompson’s body may have been found at a Clay County trash site rather than a Georgia landfill if not for a decision to end the local search primarily because of a backup of trash trucks, records and an interview with the county manager show.

An agreement by Alan Altman, Clay’s director of environmental services, and sheriff’s deputies combing the trash site on Oct. 20 ended the search, County Manager Fritz Behring said. That prevented an immediate opportunity to find the truck that picked up Somer’s body, learn the truck’s route and possibly narrow the location where she was killed and dumped.

Investigators later tried to identify the specific trash truck after Somer’s body was found Oct. 21, two days after she disappeared. The Sheriff’s Office said that search, which they called a potential key to helping solve the case, was complicated because the body had been mixed with tons of trash transferred from the Clay site to the Chesser Island Road landfill in Folkston, Ga.

Full article at http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...ash_truck_backup_caused_delay_in_somer_search

Yes Yes:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

The truth and nothing but the trash truth. LOL LOL

 

[Sunshine77]

Yes Yes:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

The truth and nothing but the trash truth. LOL LOL

LOL I was editing my post as you were adding yours. The trash truth? I don't think it exists. MOO.

 

[Angleena]

He pleads "not guilty" to charges that include his photo on materials found in his possession; guess he missed out learning as a kid on the part about truth vs lie.
I'm beginning to think (like New) that LE needs to move on charges related to Somer.... if they have something to move on.

Even though it's obvious he is guilty of the molestation, possession and production of child *advertiser censored* charges, it's good legal sense to plead not guilty (no matter how much we don't like it).

=========
Here is a snippet (source: http://wokv.com/localnews/2010/03/jarred-harrell-pleads-not-guil.html:

"Charging in the most prudent way, and using all laws that have been violated in our opinion and charging it accordingly. So, it's the same incident, just charged a little bit more thoroughly," says Chief Assistant State Attorney Dan McCarthy.

McCarthy says the victim is a female relative of Harrell's and younger than seven years old.
==========

A good defense attorney will argue that he is not guilty on 2 counts of child molestation, since it was all the same incident and that would make him guilty on only one count. Same with the production, while there are several images, the whole even of producing them was one single incident and the attorney will argue that he is only guilty on one count of production. However, the possession charges are a bit different and hard to argue, each image he holds is one count against him. So that is part of the reason he has plead not guilty. The other part of the reason is that it opens up the door for plea bargaining, where he might agree to plead guilty for one count of production, one count of molestation and maybe 1/2 the counts of possession. I believe prosecution would agree to reduce it to one count of production and one count of molestation, but I doubt they would reduce the possession charges.

------------------

As far as charging him in Somer's case, it is best to wait as long as it takes if they do not have solid concrete evidence. As long as he has not been found guilty in the child *advertiser censored*, production and molestation charges, prosecution cannot use any of that evidence in a murder trial showing that he has a history of child molestation. If they wait until they have a conviction in the child molestation charges, they can use that evidence to show a jury that he has a history of such conduct and is a convicted felon because of his past conduct. If he is convicted on the current charges, being able to use that conviction charge as character evidence in a murder trial is absolutely priceless. It would be so much easier to convince a jury with only circumstantial evidence if you can show a pattern of sexually abusing children. Remember, a murder charge holds the death penalty in Florida, so anything they can use to drive their case home to a jury is well worth the wait. Like they said, JH isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Put yourself on a jury in Somer's murder trial. Would it be easier for you to convict someone with a prior felony and history of child molestation or someone that has never been convicted of it before? Remember, as long as he has not been found guilty by a jury of his peers, the current charges against him cannot be used in a murder trial - so with an untainted jury, they would have absolutely no knowledge of the current charges he is facing unless he has actually been convicted and the prosecution is then allowed to bring it to the jury's attention.