GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972

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Backwoods said:
I haven't had a lot of time for posting on WS for several days, but still reading when I can ... and I surely haven't forgotten Carlene. I think of her often -- did so strongly the other day when I was in the "Westgate area" of Macon. Mulling some things over ... somehow, I just feel like her case may still be solve-able, in some way, to some degree.
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I hope so! Several really old cases have been solved lately, although they involved submerged cars from the 70s, but still it shows us we shouldn't lose hope.
 
I've hesitated to link this here, feeling it might be somewhat an invasion of privacy -- but decided to go ahead and link the FindAGrave page for Carlene's father. If it is inappropriate, please, mods, remove.

Carlene and her disappearance are mentioned here and also there is a nice family photo that includes Carlene (pretty sure she is third from the left --see if y'all agree)), her mom and dad, and her siblings. Even though the photo is not extremely clear, I felt it might be helpful to some to see a photo of her that is not a "portrait style" one, but more candid.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=40484830
 
That's neat to see the family photo. I have seen folks post stuff from Find A Grave before and as far as I know it's a public site and okay to post. If WS decides it isn't I guess they will remove it. I can't help thinking Carlene isn't far away from where she was last seen. If the police had used tracking dogs, or cadaver dogs, or done anything about taking it seriously back then, I think they could have found her.
 
I have to say that the idea of Carlene being deceased and her remains "paved over" or otherwise covered under a newer development is depressing to me. It could be -- but I sure hope not. There are plenty of other possibilities, too, IMO.

dogperson, you are right, some older cases have been solved and/or persons missing for many years have been found recently. It happens! Not only the bodies in the long-submerged cars that you mentioned, but I have also seen posts just in the last few days about remains found years ago and just identified, remains from years ago just found on a "tip", missing/murder cases many years apart in the same general area finally linked and probably solved. I think there are reasons for hope.

We've both said before that our hunches are that a "local" did not take Carlene, BUT -- if someone local was involved -- I keep hoping maybe that person talked to someone at some point, that someone else is still around and KNOWS something and will finally come forward, even if with an anonymous tip. That one act could answer so many questions that must have haunted this family.

One of the reasons I keep posting in Carlene's thread is that I hope that, somehow, keeping her thread active will help in some way to "reach" someone who may have that kind of information. One "tip" I read about recently on WS was the info, long held onto by someone, that a missing person's remains were buried under someone's porch -- and, turned out, they were. Something like that could happen here.

Also, maybe there is somebody out there who remembers something odd they saw, at Westgate or elsewhere, that day -- or remembers someone behaving oddly in the days afterward -- but who always felt "ahh, it probably wasn't even related" and hesitated to come forward. Even after all these years, some small bit of information could still be important! And it sure couldn't hurt, to share it.
 
Backwoods, you think the same way I do, that if we keep this thread active somebody who remembers her or maybe heard or saw something at the time may come across this site and give us some info or something. There may even be people who at the time heard she had run away, as the police believed, and don't even realize she was never located. I have never believed she ran away. It just doesn't make sense. She didn't take anything with her, plus she knew her sister was waiting to be picked up and would quickly sound an alarm. Also, if you are planning to run away, you would want to allow yourself a good cushion of time to do it in. You wouldn't hang around at the mall first or have plans to pick up your sister.
I was reading on some other threads and saw that when NAMUS says "DNA Submitted-Complete" it means the DNA is in CODIS, so maybe hers is there, just for some reason she isn't showing up on any ruleout lists. Strange to me, but maybe there is a good reason for it.
 
As far as our earlier ponderings about James Mitchell "Mike" Debardeleben: I just found out about this 10-part series on him that is on YouTube (first one linked below).

Had no idea these existed until it came up in another thread. I'll be making time to watch them ...

James M DeBardeleben 1 of 10 - YouTube
 
Bumping for this case you all have done such a tremendous job. This is so heart wrenching and I am such a huge supporter of LE, I wish these cases could be a priority ��. I understand all the reasons why these cases take a back burner, but with social media being such an amazing tool and time can be on our side now with some of these cases. Maybe people who know things will finally talk. So many of these aged missing children were thought of as runaways it's so sad . I realize that was not the perceived understanding here however I believe so many people during that time frame truly believed that most missing cases like this were runaways. I pray for resolution . I feel helpless these poor families . I live in a smaller town and we have a missing teen, it puzzles me as to the lack of media attention the family "seems" to not utilize. I don't understand certain families reluctance to seek it out. I'm so glad for web sleuths . Keep up the good job.
 
Time for me to take a turn at bumping Carlene's thread up.

Nothing new to post or speculate about at the moment. I think of her often -- always looking for some clue or link. Sure wish we could find her.
 
Thinking of you, Carlene. Had a dream about you the other day.
 
I spent today reading up on Carlene here and elsewhere. The hard work I've seen on this thread is greatly appreciated. Several times, I jotted down questions that were answered on the next page, so my research took a day instead of a week--thanks to y'all.

Now, munching down on those donuts:

Charley Project:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tengelsen_carlene.html
"The Pontiac was found at the shopping center at 1:45 a.m. the next day, parked in front of a Krispy Kreme donut shop."
________________________________________________________

Doe Network:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/2837dfga.html
"Charlene never arrived, and the 1963 Pontiac station wagon was located in the Westgate mall parking lot at 01.45, the night she disappeared, with the windows down and its doors unlocked."
________________________________________________________

Reporter Joe Kovak, Jr.
http://www.macon.com/2009/08/07/802938/the-miracle-of-loss-a-two-part.html
"And then there it was, parked across from the Krispy Kreme, your ride, big and ghost-white at 1:45 in the morning."

"It had only turned up across from the Krispy Kreme later."

"It had likely just been ditched, right there at Westgate, just off Pio Nono Avenue, the last place Carlene had been seen."
________________________________________________________

So I looked in the horse's mouth for accurate info, or tried to.

The Doe Network & the Charley Project lists the Macon Police Dept. for contact/investigating agency. I found 2 websites for the Macon, GA Police but couldn't find a Missing Persons Department on either one.
http://maconpolice.us/
http://www.cityofmacon.net/citydept-police

NamUs:
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/show/10554
Namus lists the Macon Police and the GBI as the investigating agencies. GBI Contact: Special Agent Jalaine Ward.

However, on the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) website the oldest missing person case is for 1984.
http://gbi.georgia.gov/cases/missing-persons
http://gbi.georgia.gov/cases/missing-persons?page=1
http://gbi.georgia.gov/cases/missing-persons?page=2

So, this is probably why Carlene isn't showing up on CODIS rule outs. I think one of us needs to contact the GBI and get her back in their computer. Shortest straw? The loser calls the GBI number on NamUs and asks for an email address for Ms. Ward?
 
I had thought of contacting LE but have never done this before and had no idea what to say or what to ask. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I'm trying to recall exactly where the car was but it was NOT in Westgate's parking lot. Someone who found this thread sent me a message a while back, someone who lives in Macon and knows the family, although this person did not know them at the time of the incident. I believe it was either at the Krispy Kreme or across from it, but I know it was near a tire store. These discrepancies in the articles confused me up until then, as I had assumed someone abducted her from Westgate and delivered the car back there as well, but it was not found parked in the mall parking lot but instead on the street. I will check and see if I still have that message. The car had not been there earlier, for sure, according to the family, and it was found with windows rolled down and unlocked, which they said Carlene would never do. This is why I believe she did not park it there and get abducted from the street. I think whoever took her parked it there because he needed to get back to the general area, although if you ask me it took a lot of nerve to come back that close to the mall knowing the family and most likely the police were looking for her by then. I do not have any secret info or anything that sheds light on this case or helps to solve it. The family contact just helped straighten up some items I had gotten confused from the various articles. I understand one family member believes Knowles was Carlene's abductor but I have not been able to find out if he was in prison in June. Records on him state he spent an average of 6 months out of each year in prison before he finally went on his killing spree, but which 6 months of 1972 he was incarcerated I have no idea.
 
BTW,

The Charley Project & For the Lost has a color photo of Carlene, which hasn't been posted to this thread. It shows her curly hair ironed straight - which is probably how she wore it the day she disappeared.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tengelsen_carlene.html

http://forthelost.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/carlene-tengelsen-missing-forty-one-years/

CTengelsen.jpg


This thread brought back tons of memories from the '60s & '70s. My BFF and I would get the ironing board out, and I'd iron her hair and she'd iron mine. Sometimes, when no one was available, I'd have to do it myself. The trick was to put a thin towel over each strand of hair before running the iron over it. Never scorched my hair or myself--and that's a miracle!
 
dogperson said:
I had thought of contacting LE but have never done this before and had no idea what to say or what to ask. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I'm trying to recall exactly where the car was but it was NOT in Westgate's parking lot. Someone who found this thread sent me a message a while back, someone who lives in Macon and knows the family, although this person did not know them at the time of the incident. I believe it was either at the Krispy Kreme or across from it, but I know it was near a tire store. These discrepancies in the articles confused me up until then, as I had assumed someone abducted her from Westgate and delivered the car back there as well, but it was not found parked in the mall parking lot but instead on the street. I will check and see if I still have that message. The car had not been there earlier, for sure, according to the family, and it was found with windows rolled down and unlocked, which they said Carlene would never do. This is why I believe she did not park it there and get abducted from the street. I think whoever took her parked it there because he needed to get back to the general area, although if you ask me it took a lot of nerve to come back that close to the mall knowing the family and most likely the police were looking for her by then. I do not have any secret info or anything that sheds light on this case or helps to solve it. The family contact just helped straighten up some items I had gotten confused from the various articles. I understand one family member believes Knowles was Carlene's abductor but I have not been able to find out if he was in prison in June. Records on him state he spent an average of 6 months out of each year in prison before he finally went on his killing spree, but which 6 months of 1972 he was incarcerated I have no idea.
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Revisiting this, dogperson: If what you were told by the friend of the family (that the car was NOT actually in the Westgate Parking lot) is correct, it was probably parked on the street on Hightower Road. The Krispy Kreme is located across the large, busy street Pio Nono Avenue from Westgate, and I believe KK is on the corner of Pio Nono and Hightower (a much "smaller" street). If memory serves, there is or was a tire place right around there, too.

Map at link will show (I hope) the KK with a red marker:

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...49&ei=-vqwUr2hGcnlsASR9oHgCg&ved=0CIkBEPwSMAs




I am not the family member (or a family member at all) dogperson speaks of, but I've done my share of considering Knowles as a possibility as well. I've recently found a few more sources that might help with the likelihood of the Knowles angle, but have to kind of sift through and sort them. I will try to do that soon. Still don't think it will give a definitive answer but it might help lead to one.
 
Came back trying to catch the edit window for my previous post but I was too late, so will just add in a new post:

Even if across Pio Nono, in front of the Krispy Kreme and/or tire place, the car was still, in a sense, "right there at Westgate," as one of the articles quoted above put it. Not in the shopping center parking lot, but right across Pio Nono from it. Right there "pretty much" where Carlene was known to have been at one point during the day.

ETA: I also still think it POSSIBLE that the car was found in the Westgate parking lot -- far out at the east edge, which also would make it "right in front of the Krispy Kreme" -- only across Pio Nono Avenue from the KK. (Westgate sits kind of up on a hill and, from a certain point on the far east edge of the parking lot, you would be looking a little bit "down" and across Pio Nono directly at the KK.) Though if dogperson feels the person that contacted her was in a position with the family to know differently through family members -- well, I tend to bow to her interpretation.

Also, I think it possible that perhaps, for some investigative reason, LE at the time may purposely have been a little vague with public/media about just exactly where it was.

Also wanting to note that we learned a few months back that the KK was new in 1972, built that year -- for whatever that info may be worth.
 
I was debating posting this for everyone to see or just sending a couple private messages. Carlene is my moms sister. I was researching some family history and was suprised to see anyone still working this case. I don't have any information on the case I was more wanting to say thanks for keeping her and my family in your thoughts.

I wish I had something to offer on the case, but it seems that everything that has been posted about locations on where the car was found and Krispy Kreme are already here.

Again, thanks for everything that you all are doing.
 
James3219 said:
I was debating posting this for everyone to see or just sending a couple private messages. Carlene is my moms sister. I was researching some family history and was suprised to see anyone still working this case. I don't have any information on the case I was more wanting to say thanks for keeping her and my family in your thoughts.

I wish I had something to offer on the case, but it seems that everything that has been posted about locations on where the car was found and Krispy Kreme are already here.

Again, thanks for everything that you all are doing.
Click to expand...

Thank YOU, James3219, for posting -- and welcome to WebSleuths!

:welcome5:


I think you will find there is a small but dedicated group of posters who keep Carlene's case in mind and close to the heart. We are glad to have you reading, and will welcome you any time you care to join the discussion. God bless your family in this new year!
 
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