GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 4

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“…To even consider that LE would not warn or inform the public that there was a dangerous killer in the community would be the height of irresponsibility on their part. I cannot imagine that scenario in my wildest dreams that they are putting Macon citizens at risk of being murdered ….” (from post 228)
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If LE issues a Dangerous-Killer-in-the-Community warning, what consequence?
1. Some people would take steps for their personal safety, perhaps---
--- locking doors at home, work, and in cars, if not already doing;
--- installing additional locks or alarms; carrying a whistle;
--- walking in pairs, office to car, stores to car, etc.; jogging/running in pairs, etc.
2. Some people would buy self-defense tools, guns, knives, pepper spray, etc. Not debating merits of these items, just noting some people would buy, after a D-K-C warning.
Negative consequence of LE issuing a warning? I don’t see harm, but such an alert may not be specific about anticipated target or victims.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On the flip side, I see possible difficulty for LE later. If LE is expected to issue D-K-C alert, does this line-of-thinking also obligate LE to make a public announcement later, which would then reset public safety expectation or steps to take?
----- When would LE announce?
------ After an arrest? After conviction? After all appeals, years later?
------What would LE say? Prolly none of the following.
----- “No dangerous killer in community.” “Don’t bother locking doors.”
”Macon citizens are no longer at risk of being murdered.”

Not being sarcastic. Just noting possible pitfalls in LE warnings & announcements. Those expecting LE to issue a D-K-C warning might consider difficulties LE may encounter, particularly the aftermath.

Sorry if this is not sufficiently sleuth-specific to Lauren’s case alone.
 
We are not going to debate personal family photos. True -- some images depict a normal, loving family celebrating the holidays. True -- in one photo, McD is holding a knife similar to the one posted downthread which appears to be a Christmas gift. He is smiling and surrounded by family.

That's it. End of discussion.

Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
McMunn said:
Who is this Most Evil Dr. Stone? LOL I've never heard of him before, but then again, I never watch TV either.
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Dr. Stone developed the scale of evil 1-22 I think it is, and has studied killers for many years, assigning them to a scale based upon various factors, he is considered very well-respected as some sort of psychologist. You can google him for more info, I think his first name is Michael.
 
Wondergirl said:
Well, so much for the new info.
-The door was locked even though LG's keys were inside. OKAY, I need a dunce cap. HTH could I have overlooked that? I am sure it has been discussed here, ad nauseum, but I really missed that. WTH?
Click to expand...

Whoever did this had to have known her, or at least stalked her first.
I see one of these options:
1. Lauren locked it with her spare key outside when she left
a. to go running
b. with her killer (possibly to go running)
2. Killer locked it with the spare key outside
- if McD, possibly the master key
3. Landlord did not notice the door was unlocked when she entered mid-week,
then she locked it when she left.
- i.e. assumed it was locked, put key in to unlock, wasn't paying enough attention to notice (can depend on the type or condition of the lock too)

Speaking of locks and keys... I'm not convinced that McD knew he had a master key.
If he did, how long has he had it? The entire 3 years? Any other reports of missing items, etc?
If he did this, and knew he had it, why would he have it out and easy to find that first day?
Was he so confident that the trash would pickup and this would only be a missing person case... so, nobody was going to be searching his apartment?

And these 2 condom burglaries... I still can't figure this out.
If they were displayed, labeled, dirty, etc... why not hide them somewhere with that key?
Could he have "made up" the story about getting them from the neighbors' to explain their presence for some reason? Were there only 2 in the place? Different brands or something?
If he made it up, have the police contacted those 2 people and had them "sign off" on filed accusations of theft so they could hold him? (i.e. hey guys, you can always drop the charges later... he told us he took them, so you're not filing a false accusation here.)

There are just sooo many questions :banghead:
 
SouthernKate said:
That's definitely interesting that the law class is standing behind him. Definitely says something about his character and what people thought of him. I know it's been said earlier in the thread that some murderers seem incapable of the crimes they've committed (ie, Craigslist killer). However, it's interesting to hear the opinions of people who knew both Lauren and Stephen.

And I'm unable to watch the show, so thanks for the updates!
Click to expand...

Ummm, I think you would have to interview everyone in the class to make that statement true. I find it hard to believe that everyone has been polled.
 
cluciano63 said:
Dr. Stone developed the scale of evil 1-22 I think it is, and has studied killers for many years, assigning them to a scale based upon various factors, he is considered very well-respected as some sort of psychologist. You can google him for more info, I think his first name is Michael.
Click to expand...

Give the man his MD! He earned it. Dr. Stone is professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons in New York City, and attending psychiatrist at the Mid-Hudson Forensic Psychiatric Hospital in New Hampton, NY. He is on the editorial board of the Journal of Personality Disorders, and is a trustee of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis. A life fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, Dr. Stone is also a member of the American College of Psychiatrists.

In other words...he is even more qualified than I am to make a judgement on the video....that is a joke because I am in no way qualified to make a judgement.
 
Givsmetheshivers said:
Ummm, I think you would have to interview everyone in the class to make that statement true. I find it hard to believe that everyone has been polled.
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Agreed.
Besides, if he were in jail on frivolous burglary charges, and all his classmates were convinced he didn't kill Lauren... Why have we not heard a single classmate (to my knowledge) standing up and loudly proclaiming "this is ridiculous!".
Would you not expect this?

In fact, I get the impression that nobody knew him that well.
With his peers, it was just surface contact.
Like working in the same office with someone. Sure, you know them... in the context of work - but you don't really know them.
I think the whole class is just in shock and waiting to see what happens.
 
~SuperSleuth~ said:
Agreed.
Besides, if he were in jail on frivolous burglary charges, and all his classmates were convinced he didn't kill Lauren... Why have we not heard a single classmate (to my knowledge) standing up and loudly proclaiming "this is ridiculous!".
Would you not expect this?

In fact, I get the impression that nobody knew him that well.
With his peers, it was just surface contact.
Like working in the same office with someone. Sure, you know them... in the context of work - but you don't really know them.
I think the whole class is just in shock and waiting to see what happens.
Click to expand...

Why would they? They are attorneys and they believe in the system. They know to wait until all the evidence is in. Have you heard any of them standing up saying anything about the case?
 
JeannieC said:
Why would they? They are attorneys and they believe in the system. They know to wait until all the evidence is in. Have you heard any of them standing up saying anything about the case?
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. I forgot about that. lol
That's a good point.
 
I could be wrong but I believe some will speak out once an arrest is made.
 
Giddings-case apartments come back to life after slaying
By AMY LEIGH WOMACK and JOE KOVAC JR. - Telegraph staff

On a steamy Friday morning earlier this month, the scene outside a patch of snug apartments tucked along a stretch of historic houses on a downtown hillside had already become something of a community spectacle.

And for the most grim and hurtful reasons.

Even so, the setting bore the feel of sacred ground.

In many ways, it still does.

No matter that the flowers, plastic and real, adorning the fence by the sidewalk are gone. Or that the memorial wreath on the railing by the dead woman’s front door and the white ribbon dangling from her porch lamp have been taken down. Or that locals paying their respects and gawkers alike may not ride by as slowly as they once did.

Read more:
http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html
 
No, many Of them appear to be much wiser than McD and not running out overly chatting it up with any and every local reporter with a mic and a cam.. But some of them have indeed spoken up and spoken LOUDLY corresponding with Lauren's family as well..

And I'll just put it this way.. The broad statement of all of the fellow law students/classmates of McD believing McD is not involved in Lauren's murder.. Well.. It is simply.. As many have already stated highly inaccurate, along with someone feeling they are entitled to In any way speak for or represent all of the classmates opinions and views is in no way indicative of what truly is felt by these fellow classmates..

Anyone can see for themselves in the hundreds of pages of comments on Macon.com where a few of the classmates have voiced a true and accurate opinion and view as to how they truly feel about both McD and Lauren..

Some of them state that they are very torn.. Bereft over their classmates murder and just in a state of shock that it's quite possibly a fellow student that is responsible for Lauren's brutal death..*

Others stating that as much as they hate to believe that one of their classmates was responsible for another classmate's death, especially given the brutal nature.. But with what they know it certainly seems to be looking as if that is what they are being faced with.. And that is making just that much more painful, extremely difficult to deal with and many are only coping through diverting their complete attention and time to hobbies, and things that bring enjoyment(much like Sandstorm told us that his/her fam member, a friend of Lauren's was coping in a similar way)..

I have only read from the few students that hove spoken nothing but respect toward both the victim as well as the possible perpatrator.. They have spoken about Stephen in an extremely fair way and even some who felt he was most likely responsible.. Even tho, he too corresponding with Lauren's family member spoke of positive attributes about McD.. This touched me and had me feel a great respect for this individual who was big enough to set apart his personal beliefs of who he thought was most likely to be Lauren's killer and able to somewhat humanize McD with positive attributes.. Lauren's family member thanked him for sharing those humanizing details about McD because it was truly difficult with what has thus far been learned about the evil that was done and inflicted on their loved one.. Because of that all they could see was a monster.. But due to this classmate they were thankful to be able to humanize him.. As I said this touched me as well and I thanked that particular gentleman as well for doing that for Lauren's family.. This fam member spoke as if this was something that she, personally needed and I was glad the classmate was able to look beyond what he may have personally believed and to humanize Stephen and in doing so obviously helping this particular family member and possibly other fam members as well..

I spoke about these comments over a week ago and posted about this last detail about the classmates humanizing Stephen..

So, as I said at the opening of this post I feel that the majority Of students are wisely(unlike McD's choices/decisions) not going out and speaking on cam/on mic with local reporters about their opinions and views about either of the classmates involved.. But the extremely broad and blanket statement that all the fellow classmates are believing in McD's innocence and that he was in no way involved.. That blanket statement is just not accurate..
 
The above referenced article says that Ms. Bush can submit crime scene repair receipts to the city for reimbursement. Will the public have access to the receipts in order to learn what was taken from the physical structure of the building? I said in an earlier post on Thread 2, I think, that I thought we could probably learn what was taken as evidence by knowing what was replaced/repaired in them.
Ms. Bush could be a wealth of information if she so chose to do so.
 
Backwoods said:
(respectfully snipped for focus, and emphasis above mine)

I guess I would be pretty fair jury material at this point! ... except, of course, that I do not support capital punishment and so would be unlikely to make it to the box in a Georgia murder trial, and also that I have been pretty well enmeshed in media reports, forum discussions, rampant rumor and other influences that I am not sure I could truthfully say I could totally sort out in my mind

In a way, I think this forum makes an interesting place to study possible jury behavior, for sure. To a point, we could be seen as a mock jury. Sometimes I just get the uncomfortable feeling that some of us are in a real big hurry to make it home in time for supper, or to milk the cow, or not miss the big golf game!

I can't see it as a bad thing to have that "toggle switch" in my mind at this point, when so much of the important evidence is yet to be available. Like others, I think we may get at least a better inkling of the evidence very soon in the days ahead.

I posted the other day to tell another poster that I would "stand with" her when she said something to the effect that she was not yet totally convinced of SM's guilt but would stand red-faced and ashamed before everyone who is if further evidence proves he is indeed the perp. What I really should have posted was that I do not see any reason for her, or me, to anticipate needing to stand ashamed for not having "reached a verdict" at this point, whatever the outcome eventually.

I said to someone the other day that it is not a particularly comfortable position, being "on the fence", at this point. Nor do I feel it should be, for me or especially for a real-life juror. Right now it is emotionally draining to me, actually. If anyone is interested, I'm having a "he probably did it" day today; I still do go back and forth at this point, with, as I said, the most telling evidence yet to be available. I have about three really strong reasons when I am "leaning" toward SM as being the perp. All of them depend somewhat on that as-yet-not-known evidence, but I'll reveal one of them: the (apparent) timing of the placement of the torso in the trash bin.

I do know that I couldn't be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt on the evidence available to me now --realizing that some of you may know things I do not -- and certainly not on the SM interview video alone.
Click to expand...

Backwoods, thanks for a really thoughtful post as well as to
Smoothoperator who also put forth some good points on post #468,

Allow me to weigh in:
The torso location - beside BH apt and in the trash can
the timing of finding the torso
the dismemberment
the McD 3 part interview - his vocalization and reaction to body find
LE approach to this case including searches and evidence collection
McD possessing a master key
McD creeping in and out of BH apts
McD stealing condoms
the removal of the refrigerator
the timing of the crime - end of law school

Based on those points, in the logical thought processes of my mind, I find McD guilty.

I think that over the 3 years of McD living next door to Lauren and going to school with her, that he had developed a deep seeded hidden adoration for her. Now, law school was finished, and she was moving away, and McD would never see Lauren again....
I think this tragedy is rooted in that premise.

Whether Lauren's death was by accident or intentional, I do not have an opinion.
I can play the intentional scenario or the accidental scenario in my mind with equal weight.


On the other hand...

If I were a juror in a court of law, given all I have mentioned above, how would I vote?
NOT guilty.

I am not on the fence in my OPINION, because I do think he is guilty.
However, I am on the fence if I were required to cast my vote.

I believe in our justice system, and I need PROOF as in forensic evidence that ties McD to this crime.
Only then I could I cast my vote as GUILTY.


As we know:
"It is better that ten guilty escape than one innocent suffer."
William Blackstone
 
Bush said the cans of food in the kitchen cabinets were lined up just so, “all turned with their labels out.” That said, the apartment, she added, “wasn’t very clean.”
Friday it was barren. It contained no signs of its former tenant, save for a clump of hair beside the toilet that resembled McDaniel’s frizzy chestnut locks.
http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html
Click to expand...

This statement made by apt mgr as well as the plumber about severe organization to the point of having in his kitchen cabinet's canned goods were arranged and displayed with all labels facing forward.. Their being organized in a just so fashion..

It takes my mind back to the 2 felony burglary charges against McD for the two separate *occasions of burglary if his neighbors in stealing one single condom from each residence.. And many of us questioning throughout what could possibly have drawn LE to their existence being suspect rather than them just being seen as 2 random condoms in his apt??

This obsessive type organization and OCD like behaviors do lend more credence to what some of us have theorized that the condoms possibly were "displayed" or " labeled" in a way that would first bring attention to LE and second to have been seen in any way suspect that would lead to LE then questioning McD about them..*

Just something that came to mind in reading the article..

Also extremely organized in an almost obsessive fashion but yet the owner want to point out that in a completely odd and totally opposite type of behavior the apt was not kept "clean".. Of course IMO that's typical college guys bachelor pad .. Unclean and and a mess.. But it is strange in this case given the obsessive organization.. The two are like oil and water IMO and they just don't mix..

Lastly as is in the snipped quote ^above^ they state that there is a clump of what was obviously McD's hair beside the toilet.. Anyone care to speculate on what that's about?? Given his particular hair style it's not as tho he's cutting his hair.. So what would explain a clump Of his hair next to the toilet??

Thanks guys for posting the link to this latest article;)
 
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