GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

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What type of information concerning this crime will likely be given during SM's next court appearance? I'm not asking for specifics just what type can be expected. How much evidence will have to be revealed to keep SM charged with this crime?
 
Wondergirl said:
After having watched someone use a saw recently, I can imagine that the tool of convenience (hacksaw) was actually fairly tedious and time consuming to use, for such a gruesome and despicable act of dismemberment.
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respectfully snipped for focus

Actually, a hacksaw is one of the most efficient tools for the task. Granted, the quality of the blade on a run-of-the-mill Stanley hacksaw is inferior to an actual surgical instrument, but a surgical bone saw is basically a hacksaw.
 
AgentFrankLundy said:
This is a good timely article, especially since it is from a source other than the locals who I am totally frustrated with. I found a few things interesting: This is the first time I have heard Lauren, she truly was a beautiful girl in every way. Interesting that police say they do not have a motive. Kaitlyn said when McD bragged about being able to get away with murder, he referred to a murder similar to Lauren's ( this may have been pointed out earlier or part of the warrant , come to think of it) And the search for the rest of her body,I still believe, is not only for closure but to establish the cause of death.
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I'm afraid it would be extremely difficult to determine COD at this late date unless, perhaps, the skull showed signs of injury.
 
bessie said:
respectfully snipped for focus

Actually, a hacksaw is one of the most efficient tools for the task. Granted, the quality of the blade on a run-of-the-mill Stanley hacksaw is inferior to an actual surgical instrument, but a surgical bone saw is basically a hacksaw.
Click to expand...

Awe you beat me to it, I asked one of my friends in anatomy about this and she said same.
 
pearl said:
What type of information concerning this crime will likely be given during SM's next court appearance? I'm not asking for specifics just what type can be expected. How much evidence will have to be revealed to keep SM charged with this crime?
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From what I (not a lawyer) understand...

At this commitment hearing, the DA only needs to show probable cause.
The difference between this and getting the warrant is that the defense will be present
and will have a chance to argue the evidence, and present his own if he likes to refute the charge.
We've been told there is no "discovery" rules for this, so the DA will most likely start with
the evidence on the warrant, then see what Buford has to counter this, then go from there.
I'm sure they'll continue to keep as much evidence undisclosed as possible.
But, hopefully we'll get at least some new bit of info out of this.

Next would be the Grand Jury.
Here the DA will basically present everything they have.
This is not public, the defense will not be present, and we will not know what is disclosed (unless leaked).

I believe at this point, or maybe even before the Grand Jury, Buford could file other motions,
like another conflict of interest or change of venue, etc.
But, one of the lawyers here will have to chime in to give details :)

So, in summary, we may get a little more at this hearing next week.
Then, unless info is leaked, we won't know any more until the trial. :banghead:

ETA: As to what "type" of evidence... since they only have to show probable cause at this hearing,
if anything new does come out, it will be the weaker of any evidence they have.
 
~SuperSleuth~ said:
If you do stop by the Zaxby's, have a look around the intersection there.
I have a feeling based on the description of what they said the video showed
that the video may have come from a DOT camera.
Have a look and see if it's pointed in that direction.
I'd be interested to know, but I don't know when I'll be in that part of town next...
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I posted earlier that I talked to a family member of the owner of the Zaxby's and it was their video.
 
~SuperSleuth~ said:
From what I (not a lawyer) understand...

At this commitment hearing, the DA only needs to show probable cause.
The difference between this and getting the warrant is that the defense will be present
and will have a chance to argue the evidence, and present his own if he likes to refute the charge.
We've been told there is no "discovery" rules for this, so the DA will most likely start with
the evidence on the warrant, then see what Buford has to counter this, then go from there.
I'm sure they'll continue to keep as much evidence undisclosed as possible.
But, hopefully we'll get at least some new bit of info out of this.

Next would be the Grand Jury.
Here the DA will basically present everything they have.
This is not public, the defense will not be present, and we will not know what is disclosed (unless leaked).

I believe at this point, or maybe even before the Grand Jury, Buford could file other motions,
like another conflict of interest or change of venue, etc.
But, one of the lawyers here will have to chime in to give details :)

So, in summary, we may get a little more at this hearing next week.
Then, unless info is leaked, we won't know any more until the trial. :banghead:

ETA: As to what "type" of evidence... since they only have to show probable cause at this hearing,
if anything new does come out, it will be the weaker of any evidence they have.
Click to expand...
If the latest evidence is sufficient to charge him with malice murder, some of that evidence will be presented at the prelim. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
Thoughts regarding earlier discussion of it being questionable for Zaxby's employee(s) to have first of all even remembered or have been capable of an accurate identification that it was indeed Lauren Giddings at their drive thru window at 6:30pm on July 25th, and secondly questioning that the Zaxby's employee(s) would have been able to state with any type certainty whatsoever whether Lauren Giddings were alone(as is reported) or whether she had a passenger anywhere in her car, specifically mentioned even in her backseat..

bessie stated some of the extremely easy ways for it to have been narrowed down to whom the exact server of her meal was at the Zaxby's drive thru such as simply going by the time and date stamped receipt with the employees personal identification number.. Therefor then being to able to make certain to speak with the employee that would have been most likely to remember her since they were the one who dealt with her at the drive thru for payment and rendering the service of giving Lauren her ordered to-go meal..

*we are talking a very close in vicinity restaurant To Lauren's BH apt(just literal blocks) which would quite possibly be frequented by her IF even not on a regular basis, frequented well enough that employees would recognize her face and vehicle as a customer who frequented their place of business on more than one occassion..

*A couple of quick details that would IMO lend even more credence to this possibility, IMO therefor making it all the more likely that she would easily be recognized is for one she was a very blonde, attractive young woman.. And IMO it's a given that especially attractive features and individuals are going to be alot more likely to be remembered.. Another detail IMO that would add to the likelihood that she would be an easily distinguished customer, therefor remembered and recognized even if not heavily frequenting the establishment would be her having a unique to the area license plate(I.e. Maryland state tag vs.. State of Georgia tag or even tag of a surrounding state).. Not only would the state of Maryland tag be a not regularly seen detail, even more importantly a state of Maryland vanity plate with the name Kaitlyn largely displayed as her license plate number..

These IMO are just a couple of easily discerning details that IMO would have made it extremely likely that the employee(s) did easily recognize and identify Lauren as the customer seen at 6:30pm on July 25th..

Combined with video of her arm and ATLEAST a portion of her car IMO makes it very likely that these employees were able to make this identification when speaking with LE with extreme ease..

As for being able to discern whether there was a passenger, yes, a passenger even in her backseat.. IMO the majority of employees are acutely aware of many more details than credit is given.. IN my personal experiences of not only easily recognizing an employee working the drive thru of a neighborhood food chain if seeing them even more than once..I've also had it affirmed that they, too not only recognize me as a customer having previously been at their to-go window(and definitely not as any type of regular frequenting at all but rather in frequent).. But even affirmed to me that many pay acute awareness to detail.. For example I have a teeny min-chi(literally less than 3lb) and tinted windows in my SUV(that is a run of the mill vehicle) and on several occasions at multiple neighborhood drive thrus I have employees comment on both seeing her(thru tinted windows in my back seat).. Or their lack of seeing her and therefor questioning or noticing that If I did not infact have her with me in my backseat..

These type of details, info, and personal experiences IMO all lend much credence to the fact that not only Lauren would have easily been recognized as that 6:30pm drive thru customer on July 25th, but just as well likely they would have been able easily and accurately state that she infact was alone in vehicle when she came thru the drive thru at 6:30pm on July 25th..

As always jmo, tho!!
 
Couple of responses from further up the line here.

First, when it comes to tossing tools in the trash, that is incredibly common. I have done it, as has probably most anyone I know. Who would imagine someone taking something out of the trash that you considered broken and worthless and then using it to kill someone? Burying a tool is probably against the law somewhere. Some environmental thing. I have no problem with the plausibility of tossing a tool in the trash. Not that this really happened, but the idea of it is plausible.

Second, the master key was reportedly not able to open the storage closet. I remember that was a discussion here long, long, and many threads back. That was a bee in the bonnet of McD being nailed by having it found there. Not that he couldn't have gotten in there, but the key they reportedly linked to him did not open that closet. I hope someone remembers posting about that before. IF the link is still available, it may have been edited, but I will try to locate it myself.
 
PsychoMom said:
Couple of responses from further up the line here.

First, when it comes to tossing tools in the trash, that is incredibly common. I have done it, as has probably most anyone I know. Who would imagine someone taking something out of the trash that you considered broken and worthless and then using it to kill someone? Burying a tool is probably against the law somewhere. Some environmental thing. I have no problem with the plausibility of tossing a tool in the trash. Not that this really happened, but the idea of it is plausible.

Second, the master key was reportedly not able to open the storage closet. I remember that was a discussion here long, long, and many threads back. That was a bee in the bonnet of McD being nailed by having it found there. Not that he couldn't have gotten in there, but the key they reportedly linked to him did not open that closet. I hope someone remembers posting about that before. IF the link is still available, it may have been edited, but I will try to locate it myself.
Click to expand...

BBM- Yes, you are right Psychomom, I remember the report coming out and the discussion here about it as well. Cannot find the link to the article just yet, but IIRC, it was either around the time of the murder charge being made or around the time the murder warrant was made public. Anyone else with a better memory or quicker at finding the news articles?
 
I found a post by GT&T:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6994905&postcount=185
GypsiesTramps&Thieves

Okay, I think I may have sparked the conversation about whether or not Stephen had access to the "storage room" so I'll state again what I heard.

Probably two weeks ago (before the murder charge) someone told me that police had removed a hacksaw from a storage room that was on the property. Notice I said room, so big enough that someone could walk into is the way it was described to me. The person said that Stephen's master key didn't open that room. But the person could have been wrong. Or since he had a direct key that opened Lauren's door, maybe he also had a key specifically to the room. Or maybe he's handy enough to be able to pick locks. On second thought, police stated that it was locked so I guess no picking; he wouldn't have been able to lock it back.
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That is one of the places I heard this. Maybe GT&T can clarify this information.
Purty Please! With sugar on top!
 
I clearly remember much discussion of whether or not Stephen's masterkey fit the storage room and to my knowledge it was never a verified rumor.. I certainly don't have a problem being wrong or incorrect in anything I state that can be proven to be otherwise.. nor admitting that I am wrong about anything that I am proven to be incorrect regarding a specific detail, information, circumstance.. I just do not recall any verification of this as anything other than a rumor..

That is why without any verification I have stuck with the specific wording of the most legitimate and verifiable source available in any case.. LE's words.. Stating that Stephen's masterkey "unlocked all doors at the apartment complex"
 
Well, there's not much to clarify...

Like I said before, someone TOLD me that his master key didn't open that door. And again, that person could have been wrong. Honestly, I think they were wrong.
 
PsychoMom said:
Couple of responses from further up the line here.

First, when it comes to tossing tools in the trash, that is incredibly common. I have done it, as has probably most anyone I know. Who would imagine someone taking something out of the trash that you considered broken and worthless and then using it to kill someone? Burying a tool is probably against the law somewhere. Some environmental thing. I have no problem with the plausibility of tossing a tool in the trash. Not that this really happened, but the idea of it is plausible.

Second, the master key was reportedly not able to open the storage closet. I remember that was a discussion here long, long, and many threads back. That was a bee in the bonnet of McD being nailed by having it found there. Not that he couldn't have gotten in there, but the key they reportedly linked to him did not open that closet. I hope someone remembers posting about that before. IF the link is still available, it may have been edited, but I will try to locate it myself.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct about the key not fitting the tool closet. I'll help you look. We discussed that for at least 2 pages and I believe it was 2 threads ago.
 
SmoothOperator said:
IMO a key element that is often overlooked in the warrant is the key statement immediately preceding the statement that follows about the Stanley hacksaw being found in a LOCKED storage room of the apt complex..

And that is the statement BBM ^above^ which specifically(and IMO intentionally) states that found to be in Stephen's possession was a masterkey that unlocked all doors in the apartment complex.. which as I stated IMO is no accident that it was worded specifically to say UNLOCKED EVERY DOOR IN THE COMPLEX.. immediately preceding the statement of exactly where the Stanley hacksaw was found..

DD the person labeled as MM my Stephen in his statements to his mom and his attorney Buford.. Much to Stephen's dismay not only was he wrong in labeling DD as a Maintenance Man for BH, IMO he was wrong in assuming this Maintenance Man had access to all the apts(<- which Stephen also made in his statement) by having a masterkey in his possession.. DD was never anything more than a resident contact and was never given a masterkey/access to All apts in the complex..

So while some opinions about*the statement regarding the hacksaw and it's packaging specifically belong to the the particular hacksaw used and contained Lauren's DNA can be argued whether it "matched" .. The clear and precise wording that precedes it let's you know exactly that Stephen had access to the locked storage area not DD..
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That's exactly the way I read it too and it's bothered me all along that somewhere it was said that he didn't have a key to the storage room. I felt like the language in the warrant was very clear that McD DID have access to the LOCKED storage room. Glad to know now that was only an unsubstantiated rumor posted by G T & T and that it was apparently never brought up again, unless I have missed something. This is precisely why we have to be careful about accepting rumor as fact. Not saying G T & T did anything wrong - it was clearly stated that it was a rumor. Its just that all this time, we've been discussing McD's lack of access to the storage room as though it were fact and it now doesn't seem to be fact at all. LE was very clear in their statement that McD had a key that UNLOCKED EVERY DOOR IN THE COMPLEX.
 
That's why I asked. And GT&T clarified where that part came from. If there was an article verifying or anything else, I would love to see it. Not seeing it at this point.

I do agree with unsubstantiated rumors. I know a lot of people are sharing them all over the place. Including rumors of DNA issues and all. But, some of you already know that. ;) I know rumors are rumors, that is why I ask all the questions. :D
 
PsychoMom said:
That's why I asked. And GT&T clarified where that part came from. If there was an article verifying or anything else, I would love to see it. Not seeing it at this point.

I do agree with unsubstantiated rumors. I know a lot of people are sharing them all over the place. Including rumors of DNA issues and all. But, some of you already know that. ;) I know rumors are rumors, that is why I ask all the questions. :D
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Yes, I saw that, I think we were posting at the same time. With LE being as tight-lipped as they have been, sometimes its hard to substantiate even the most reliable of rumors. Nothing wrong with rumors. I just don't always have a chance to read every post as carefully as possible and I guess when the comments about him not having a key to that storage room came out, I didn't dig further and just assumed it was fact. (Yeah, I know better.) But it has bothered me from the beginning, since the warrant said his key opened every door there.
 
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