General discussion thread No. 15

[docwho3]

Wasn't the "pact" later explained to have meant that they let the parents of the missing child be the spokesman about the case (rather than having each of them be putting out a confusing and possibly accidently misleading hash from several mouths)?

 

[april4sky]

The widely reported Sol article of June 30th specifically quotes David Payne:

"Gerry and Kate’s friends, who are interrogated tightly by the PJ over almost a month, refuse to clarify this contradiction, when asked by Sol. “We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else’s business”, says David Payne, another element with the group."

Sounds like there was something they did not want to discuss with anyone else.

I think you may be reading too much into it. JMO.
It probably had more to do with not talking about possible evidence because of the secrecy laws and therefore he had no intention of talking to Sol/press.

 

[april4sky]

Wasn't the "pact" later explained to have meant that they let the parents of the missing child be the spokesman about the case (rather than having each of them be putting out a confusing and possibly accidently misleading hash from several mouths)?

doc, I think you might be right.

It does makes sense too.
It's just too easy to read something sinister in every word or phrase. IMO

 

[hcc2007]

When I suggested that doctors closed ranks around one of their own, it was not meant in any way to justify that behavior. No way! I find it absolutely repulsive.

But...we've all heard news stories of doctors doing bad things. They are capable of it, and in some cases I think they're MORE capable of it than the rest of us, as they think of themselves as above the rest of us and so, beyond ordinary morals.

a) They are smarter than average, just in the sense of getting through the necessary course work.

b) They've worked incredibly hard to get where they are. Internships at hospitals are brutal, and it's done deliberately to make sure only the toughest survive.

c) They've seen and done things most of us could never stomach.

d) They expect to be called "Doctor". Lots of doctors, even veterinarians, act uncomfortable when I call them by their first names. Too bad for them, I do it anyway.

e) They wield power of life and death. They do!

Not to say that 99% of the doctors in the world are not altruistic and wonderful people, but ... there IS the other 1%. So if there are 100,000 doctors in the world, that gives us 1,000 bad ones. Of which we only need 9 to explain this case.

 

[colomom]

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=16970

"Carlos Anjos, the unofficially official PJ spokesman, was just interviewed for a whole hour on Porto Canal TV, mostly about Maddie's case."

 

[colomom]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/19984

'MCCANNS ARE LYING'

A couple of things I just want to point out from this article that I think may be important:

"Now Dr Payne’s husband – medical researcher David, 41 – has claimed he saw Madeleine being put to bed when he visited the McCann flat at 7pm.

Before his new testimony, police sources admitted they could not confirm the whereabouts of Kate and Madeleine after 1.29pm that day."

It really bothers me how the report is only coming out NOW...4 months later....

In Portugal yesterday it was revealed that detectives have seized a British police manual from the McCanns.

Officers believe the book could be used as a key piece of evidence in building a case against them.

A Portuguese police source said: “It is certainly not the sort of reading material you would expect a couple to take on a relaxing family holiday.”

Previous reports described this book as:

from Sol, Sept 15:

3. In the Vista Mar villa (rented by the McCanns)

a) cadaver odour, detected by the dogs on clothes that belong to Kate, and on the pink soft toy
b) an English book, normally used by police, that focuses on the different types of crimes, as well as on what clues should be looked for to identify its perpetrators
c) a bible, on Kate’s bedside table, open at the Old Testament, at the passage that tells the death of King David’s son (God punished David with the death of his son, in order to force him away from sin and to return onto the path of good)
d) Kate’s diary, in which she writes about daily difficulties, in dealing with her children

So now we have a second report about this book....

 

[Morag]

Title should be Surprise! we're here to check out your books!

From Post 926, just above:

From Sol, Sept 15:

3. In the Vista Mar villa (rented by the McCanns)

a) cadaver odour, ...
b) an English book, normally used by police, ...
c) a bible, on Kate’s bedside table, open at the Old Testament,...
d) Kate’s diary, in which she writes about daily difficulties, in dealing with her children....

This might mean a search which took place when the McCanns were not present. Of course, they couldn't remove the corpse odor, but they would certainly have removed the other items if they had known the search was to happen.
Even if family were there when the PJ arrived, they wouldn't have known to quickly deal with the 3 books. Since I have never been the subject of a police search, I'm not sure about how the element of surprise works into this.

 

[pinto]

b) an English book, normally used by police, that focuses on the different types of crimes, as well as on what clues should be looked for to identify its perpetrators....
So now we have a second report about this book....

When was the search done?

Because unless it was made immediately after the crime, that book means nothing. THe McCanns are looking for some perpetrators, remember? It doesn't seem farfetched that they would be doing research.

Now, if it were proved that they bought the book in England, before the trip, then, yes, it is important. Very important!!

But I want to know where and when they got it before I raise my eyebrows.

 

[Brefie]

When was the search done?

Because unless it was made immediately after the crime, that book means nothing. THe McCanns are looking for some perpetrators, remember? It doesn't seem farfetched that they would be doing research.

Now, if it were proved that they bought the book in England, before the trip, then, yes, it is important. Very important!!

But I want to know where and when they got it before I raise my eyebrows.

I think that if they had that book AT ALL and if it were for sinister purposes, then they would have disposed of it along with Madeleine.

 

[AfterMidnight]

GOOD point, Brefie! They couldn't be completed stupid if they qualified as doctors. And, it would be stupid, I guess, to have that book around when people were pointing fingers at you for being a negligent parent and a possible child murderer. Naw, I don't believe that book or the Bible had much to do with guilt on the McCann's part.

 

[philamena]

I agree. I just can't see doctors willingly covering for something like this either. It sounds total nonsence to me.

It wouldn't just ruin their careers it would completely ruin all of their lives.
I don't buy it.

Me either! These people are not underachieving illiterates. They are drs for gawds sake. To think that all of them voluntarily forfeited their careers and lives is ridiculous!!!:silenced:

 

[philamena]

Wasn't the "pact" later explained to have meant that they let the parents of the missing child be the spokesman about the case (rather than having each of them be putting out a confusing and possibly accidently misleading hash from several mouths)?

Exactly doc, unfortunately that won't be repeated on this thread.

 

[Brefie]

Exactly doc, unfortunately that won't be repeated on this thread.

God forbid this would happen to our friends on vacation, but I would not utter a single word to anyone I could not trust with my life. You had better believe there would be silence from our li'l gang, and not any derogatory term for our respect and loyalty for the parents (victims) would make us talk. Nope, not all the ragloids or message boards in the whole wide world.

 

[colomom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=483715&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Kate McCann DID scream 'They've taken her' claims new nanny witness

WHY would the McCanns say something different????

 

[blaize]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=483715&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Kate McCann DID scream 'They've taken her' claims new nanny witness

WHY would the McCanns say something different????

Great find colomom. Finally someone who is willingly to put their name to what they are saying. Good for Nanny Charlotte Pennington.

From the same article [Source]

"There were no children in the room. The twins had been taken out already, I think by one of the McCanns' friends.

"When we were coming out we saw Kate and she was screaming: 'They've taken her. They've taken her!'

Asked if it was the only thing she said, Miss Pennington answered: "It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. She also repeated Madeleine's name and said: 'She's gone, she's gone'.

"I couldn't really believe what I was seeing - she was just so distraught. She was screaming out and tears were running down her face".

And further down in the same article

Asked why she thought Mrs McCann might have shouted "They've taken her", Miss Pennington said:

"I'm not really sure. But maybe she saw some people looking at Madeleine earlier that day, and she immediately thought that they must have taken her."

The nanny was one of three staff who steered Mrs McCann to the nearby reception area, where they asked her to describe what Madeleine was wearing.

But she remained so hysterical that she could hardly communicate.

Maybe at that stage they were so hysterical they didn't know what the heck they were saying or who they were saying it to?

 

[philamena]

From the same article. Statement first post by blaize:

Asked if it was the only thing she said, Miss Pennington answered: "It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. She also repeated Madeleine's name and said: 'She's gone, she's gone'.

"I couldn't really believe what I was seeing - she was just so distraught. She was screaming out and tears were running down her face" .

 

[Zelda]

Zelda, check out the earlier threads for the Murat connection. Same for some of the reasoning as to why all/any of the Tapas 9 diners would cover for the McCanns. Most here do not consider them all involved in a cover up. Those that would be, would consider it reasonable given their experience in how doctors are often framed or accused unfairly of mistakes made under pressure of time, with incomplete knowledge of a patient.

Some of the Tapas 9 diners insisted they saw Robert Murat that night. Murat has an alibi, although it's only from his mother. So some one is either lying, or mistaken. Take your pick.

Texana or someone else -- Pupleez identify Robert Murat. I just don't have time to search and read! I've been reading the Maddy board for awhile but now he is mentioned but not identified.

Pretty Please!!

 

[ThoughtFox]

colomom: This is strange:

Just before 10pm the last mother arrived to collect her child from the creche and mentioned that she had just bumped into a man, who had been shouting a name.

"She didn't get the name, but she said it sounded something like 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie'. We automatically went into lost-child procedure. In these situations, the first thing we do is investigate the scene.

"We knew that one of the other nanny's charges was called Maddie. We told the head of department what had happened and she took us straight to the apartment.

"There were no children in the room. The twins had been taken out already, I think by one of the McCanns' friends.

They had a Nanny? Who was it? :waitasec: And where was she that night?

Zelda: If you go to Google News and type in "Robert Murat" you get a page of articles. It takes just seconds:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=robert+murat

That gives you every news story there is right now about him, the background and everything.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article2993557.ece

The British expatriate was arrested 15 days after Madeleine's disappearance on 3 May, on suspicion of abducting the child, who was a few days short of her fourth birthday when she vanished. She was taken from the McCanns' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, where she had been left with her younger siblings while her parents dined in a nearby restaurant.

Mr Murat faced lengthy questioning, and the villa that he shares with his mother – which lies less than 120 yards from the spot where Madeleine was taken – was searched by police and sniffer dogs. Despite being formally named as a suspect, or 'arguido', Mr Murat was never arrested or charged, and has always vehemently denied involvement in Madeleine's disappearance. The property consultant, who was born in Portugal, is divorced and has a four-year-old daughter who lives in the UK.

 

[CaliKid]

Here is an interesting coincidence.

Remember Mari Olli Pollard, the Norwegian social worker who was adamant that she saw Madeleine in a Morocco gas station on May 9. She's the woman who heard a little blond girl say, "Can I see mummy soon?" and only after returning home realized that Madeleine was missing.

Well, it appears as if Mari Olli is married to a man named Raymond Pollard and they currently live in Spain. But up until last winter they lived in Groby, Leicester which is just down the road from Rothley, Leicester where the McCanns live.

The hospital where Gerry McCann works, Glenfield, is near Groby.

Raymond Pollard's brother is a political candidate on the Leicester Council, and the director of the Find Madeleine Fund is said to be be involved on the same council. More than likely, this director knows the Pollards. It's possible the McCanns know them too.

The Pollards apparently didn't tell the PJ of their Leicester link when they were interviewed about the sighting.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/mari-olli-is-married-with-ray-pollard.html

 

[ThoughtFox]

You want your hair to stand on end?

Read this:

Times Online ~ Mothers Who Drug Their Babies on Flights

Around the table, the normally reserved mothers were holding forth about the relative merits of Piriton versus Phenergan. “I always dose them up with Piriton before a long car journey”, slurred one mother – “it’s great stuff, sends ‘em off to sleep in ten minutes”. She offered to spell it for another mother who got out her diary. “Phenergan’s just as good” suggested someone from the other side of the table. “It’s been around for years. Your mother probably used to give it to you” (She did, I found out later).

First, let’s make one thing clear. Mothers of twins are mothers in extremis, always looking for ways to cope with the constant pressure of two or more small children demanding the same thing at the same time. . . . As a fiftysomething American remarked to a shocked new mother, who had a crying baby most of the flight, “Don’t you give your baby something to keep it quiet if you are travelling?”

Much more at link, and especially read the ending about the child who had the opposite reaction to a supposed sedative and couldn't sleep at all.