George Zimmerman's injuries #2

[beach]

Actually, the burden is quite a bit lower than that. There's needs to be a reasonable fear only of great bodily harm, not death. There is no need for injuries to have actually been sustained,, although that certainly helps depending on the circumstances. And the burden of proof on the defendant is a "mere preponderance" of the evidence.

I don't see your name listed as a verified poster on the professional posters thread at the top of the forum, are you an attorney?

I'm not an attorney, but I am a great researcher and I have learned the SYG law in order to discuss it responsibly. Does one have to be an attorney to know certain aspects of the law - especially those that require little more than a search of legal case law?

I don't think anyone discussing the SYG here or in the SYG thread is a verified attorney. It's right there in black and white, as is the case law. All of which I and others have posted a number of times. You don't need a law degree to read, obviously.

To clarify: Members are welcome to opine about what they know from research or, like many other subjects, life experiences. People can have some knowledge gained via college courses. What Karmady posted is easily verified via links on the SYG thread. The verified posters thread is for those who have chosen to become verified and wish to post in a professional capacity without having to provide links. They are given more leeway in that manner and their opinion usually carries more weight with fellow members. I would request that links be provided by any non-professional if a poster asks for them, however this is the entirely wrong thread for this whole conversation anyway.

I did want to address this here since it had gotten asked. It is disrespectful to call another member out in a public thread. If you have an issue, please PM the moderator of your choice.

And finally, NONE of this discussion has a darn thing to do with GZ's injuries. Every single bit of it belonged in the SYG thread.

 

[persnickety]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

Thank you very much for doing that. It certainly appears that there is absolutely no swelling in the area of the nose nor are they any bruises around his eyes,


my opinion only

 

[beach]

I am removing all these off topic posts.

Lots of lost work.

 

[cmsg2002]

The blood under the earlobe/s was there immediately following the killing of Trayvon Martin, and is apparent in this photo. This is before the medics showed up.

ABCNews photo

well there goes the theory of him putting his head down in the cruiser then....

 

[jjenny]

The blood under the earlobe/s was there immediately following the killing of Trayvon Martin, and is apparent in this photo. This is before the medics showed up.

ABCNews photo

Since he didn't remain on his back that is neither here nor there.

 

[TorisMom003]

The blood under the earlobe/s was there immediately following the killing of Trayvon Martin, and is apparent in this photo. This is before the medics showed up.

ABCNews photo

Thank you for finding and posting this. So based on this photo along with the other photos that I posted it appears that the EMT did not clean Zimmerman completely after all. It appears that the blood seen in the police station photos are what he really looked like immediately after the EMT cleaned and inspected him.

MOO

 

[rotterdam]

When I think about the entire set of circumstances, I find it very implausible that George would manufacture a story out of whole cloth about how his injuries occurred. It was early evening on a Sunday when many people were likely to be home and awake. He was in the middle of two rows of numerous homes all of which had porches and/or windows facing the courtyard. There was loud yelling, regardless of who was doing it, which would be expected to attract attention. He probably knew for certain that at least one person had seen what was happening because that person communicated that he did. George had called the police and they were expected on the scene any moment. They did, in fact, show up at the scene within moments of the shooting, as did a number of others.

If your head wasn't banged on the concrete under those circumstances, why make up a story that says it was when it could possibly be refuted by any number of potential eyewitnesses and the evidence. Just say your head was being banged on the ground and don't specify the surface. Especially if you've got plausible deniability down pat, as some believe George did. jmo

BBM. I dunno. His story is probably partly true and partly lies and/or gross exaggerations. After all, he does not want to go to jail. Nobody does.
And his close relatives/friends will back him up , whether it is the whole truth or not. They would not know anyway since they did not witness the incident but are repeating GZ's version of it.
And he had to come up with a believable story to reinforce his self defense claim. His injuries appear to be minor but for SYG , you really do not need any injuries at all. Just reasonable fear for your life, even if only anticipated.
If this ever ends up in front of a jury, even an intelligent one and not too gullible, the jury will have a struggle because of the way the SYG law is written .
And they(the jury) will have to follow the law , the way it is written and independent of their own personal opinion of this confusing Fla law. JMO.
I think GZ's multiple statements to LE, when/if we ever get to see them, might enlighten us somewhat. I am particular interested in the very first one.
I do think there was a short struggle/fight. Do not believe the head bouncing multiple times on concrete. The cut on the nose was high on the bridge and that could result in black eyes later on IMO. I had a similar type of injury in that spot and surprisingly developed black eyes(minor) the next day too. One just a little and the other one more.
All IMO

 

[Gayler99]

Yes, the phone would leave an impression like a L with a rounded corner. This looks like it could have been the flashlight. jmo

I totally agree.

 

[TorisMom003]

When you take the "before and after" photos and look at them next to one another you can see that the blood flow lines up. The same path taken that shows that this "after" photo is not fresh, new blood. MOO

 

[belle3]

I know slightly ot but can anyone tell me where the first aid kit on scene came from. Tia

 

[AJ Noiter]

I know slightly ot but can anyone tell me where the first aid kit on scene came from. Tia

The officers/etc. They also noted the medical blanket and gloves in the list(s) of things collected.

 

[Concerned Papa]

When you take the "before and after" photos and look at them next to one another you can see that the blood flow lines up. The same path taken that shows that this "after" photo is not fresh, new blood. MOO

Tell you something I'm not understanding about this deal.

All this blood on his head....blows raining down MMA style.....officers saying GZ was bleeding out of his nose and mouth....TM's hands over his mouth and nose....TM one punch breaks his nose.....TM bashing his head onto the sidewalk....on and on....

Not only is TM supposed to have managed to pull all this damage off and have only one small 1/4" nick below his ring finger knuckle, HE DIDN'T GET A DROP OF ALL THIS GZ BLOOD ON THE CUFFS OR SLEEVES OF HIS HOODIE....AND NOT A SINGLE SPEC UNDER HIS FINGERNAILS!

Starting on page 106

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

How's he supposed to have pulled that off? Wearing plastic gloves or something?

 

[rotterdam]

After taking a closer look at the photos of Zimmerman I noticed something. It appears that immediately after the head injuries Zimmerman was in a face down position. The longer blood lines are not straight down the back of his head, they go under the ear on one side, along his jaw line and into his beard. On the other side, they go to his ear. The back of his head shows the straight down the back of his head blood lines are much shorter and appear to be from an upright position. I am not a professional, however after dealing with my own cuts and my childrens cuts I would have to say that the picture evidence proves that Zimmerman was not held down on the ground having his head bashed onto the sidewalk repeatedly. It appears that the shorter blood lines were when the bleeding had almost stopped.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/255747/250/Docs-shed-light-on-Trayvon-Martin-killing

MOO

Since these pictures appear to be inside, I presume they were taken at the police station and after GZ already had been cleaned off once at the scene by EMT's. After sitting in a police car with head slight forward, I would think that would explain the direction of the blood trickle.

 

[suzihawk]

Since these pictures appear to be inside, I presume they were taken at the police station and after GZ already had been cleaned off once at the scene by EMT's. After sitting in a police car with head slight forward, I would think that would explain the direction of the blood trickle.

See ConcernedPapa's post upthread which shows the blood flow direction the same in the photo taken immediately after the shooting. This was before he was put in the police cruiser.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7957807&postcount=173"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - George Zimmerman's injuries, per leaked reports #2[/ame]

 

[rotterdam]

I'm not an attorney, but I am a great researcher and I have learned the SYG law in order to discuss it responsibly. Does one have to be an attorney to know certain aspects of the law - especially those that require little more than a search of legal case law?

I have read it a couple of times with many "what ifs" in my mind .And that Fla SYG law is very ambiguous and not like some in other States. And each time I come away with a different impression. Coupled with the other self defense Fl laws, it is a morass IMO. I pity any jury that will have to deal with it. And I bet prosecutors/Judges hate it too. Not enough case history yet.

 

[rotterdam]

Yes. The force of the blow knocks you down, but it also sends you reeling, you kinda spin and fall backwards. You don't always drop where you stood. And once I hit the floor, I started scrambling backwards to try to get away. (My attacker did what they do in the movies: lifted me up just to hit me again.) Clearly GZ was scrambling to get off the sidewalk, his scrambling and TM's punches = motion.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

BBM. That is the part I wonder if it was in his first statement. Or if it was added later since the evidence AFAIK did not support it without that "scrambling". RZ senior also emphasized that "scooting" away in one of his interviews..
May be the reenactment the next day was a result of that (added?) info.

 

[rotterdam]

I find it interesting that this report claims his nose was broken and yet the latest report from the doc dump claims "likely" broken. So which is the true report?????? What was ABC given with the understanding that their's was the original doctor's report. Can someone explain that??? I'm confused. jmo

I doubt without an xray and no bones sticking out and no obvious crookedness, there is no sure way to verify if really a broken/cracked nose bone. But even an xray now, might be able to determine if nose bone was broken (at one time).

 

[Allusonz]

1" x 1/2"? Looks like he's got about 10 1/2" to spare in the bandage department.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/...-cops-ripped.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

Does it matter what size the bandage is? or the wound?

Maybe the doctor wanted both lacerations covered in case of infection/keep clean et al

Maybe it was the only size they had?

 

[Zak]

I doubt without an xray and no bones sticking out and no obvious crookedness, there is no sure way to verify if really a broken/cracked nose bone. But even an xray now, might be able to determine if nose bone was broken (at one time).

I posted yesterday on page 1 of this thread about my husband breaking his nose around noon yesterday. The ER doctor looked up in to hubby's nose with a light and said I think it's broken. He said he could take an xray but it wouldn't show much. He said he could do a CT Scan if we wanted one since hubby also hit his forehead. So they did a CT Scan and the nose was broken.

One last thing, hubby's eyes started to bruise turning purple & black during the night. Still not complete black eyes even right now. I suspect each day will show more black and increase in size. Of course hubby wasn't punched in the nose and his break was on the bridge of the nose due to his safety glasses. Surprisingly his nose isn't swelled except at the bridge.

Just wanted to share what I was told about a broken nose and an xray along with some recent experience.

 

[elementary]

BBM. That is the part I wonder if it was in his first statement. Or if it was added later since the evidence AFAIK did not support it without that "scrambling". RZ senior also emphasized that "scooting" away in one of his interviews..
May be the reenactment the next day was a result of that (added?) info.

If he was scrambling, wouldn't there be grass stains and/or abrasions from the concrete on his jeans? Of course, current discovery hasn't covered that.