IDIs On This Forum?

[Holdontoyourhat]

well,JR said she was stun-gunned in her room..but then he also said Santa Bill would have fed her pineapple...that JB would have went downstairs with him to have a snack of pineapple..so which is it?? they throw stuff out there to see what'll stick...

I think my point has to do with the RN author's reference to two gentlemen. There's no rule that says the man who stungunned JBR is necessarily the same man that fed her pineapple.

 

[Ames]

well,JR said she was stun-gunned in her room..but then he also said Santa Bill would have fed her pineapple...that JB would have went downstairs with him to have a snack of pineapple..so which is it?? they throw stuff out there to see what'll stick...

That's exactly what they do...the RST..and the IDI's..

 

[Ames]

I think my point has to do with the RN author's reference to two gentlemen. There's no rule that says the man who stungunned JBR is necessarily the same man that fed her pineapple.[/quote]

That is TOTALLY beside the point. It doesn't matter WHO supposedly stun gunned her, and WHO supposedly fed her pineapple. She would have had to have been able to have shaken off the stun-gun attack, before she ate the pineapple and had tea with the intruder(s). NOW TELL ME....do you think for one second, that a six year old girl, is going to just tolerate being stun-gunned...and then when she shook it off, and got over that...sit downstairs and eat pineapple with someone, without screaming her head off for her parents. Have you lost your mind? NO OFFENSE...

 

[Ames]

I don't think lighting was a big issue. There's evidence the perp used a flashlight (wiped down batteries and flashlight) and there's testimony the kitchen light was on in the middle of the night.

I also don't think entry was a big issue. It probably wasn't dark at 4:30, it was probably dusk, since dusk lasts longer (it doesn't get dark quick). I'd bet an intruder walked right thru the front door somehow. Its less conspicuous than crawling thru the basement window.

I have said this before...you are so polite. I hope that you know that I kid with you alot, and you don't take the pot shots seriously.

The Butler Kitchen light was on, or so one of the neighbors said. But, that still doesn't explain how the intruder could have seen in the dark, down in the basement. And even if he left through the front door, he STILL would have had to have been able to see, to get TO the front door...or any door. He left the flashlight on the counter....remember?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I have said this before...you are so polite. I hope that you know that I kid with you alot, and you don't take the pot shots seriously.

The Butler Kitchen light was on, or so one of the neighbors said. But, that still doesn't explain how the intruder could have seen in the dark, down in the basement. And even if he left through the front door, he STILL would have had to have been able to see, to get TO the front door...or any door. He left the flashlight on the counter....remember?

You're totally underestimating the person or persons who would be the intruders. If it was intruders, then they got away with murder on a 6 year old. That despite leaving a handwritten note. And did so with a weapon that they made from two dollars worth of material, while their parents slept. Writing the note with their pen and paper.

If they were intruders, then they're resourseful, cunning, deadly, and have many resources you can't see because they never showed them to you.

 

[JMO8778]

I think my point has to do with the RN author's reference to two gentlemen. There's no rule that says the man who stungunned JBR is necessarily the same man that fed her pineapple.

the RN says 'the 2 gentlemen watching over your daughter' implies that the author is not one of them,that in fact,there are 3 of them in the 'SFF'..the ones JR was trying to set up in the note.

 

[JMO8778]

You're totally underestimating the person or persons who would be the intruders. If it was intruders, then they got away with murder on a 6 year old. That despite leaving a handwritten note. And did so with a weapon that they made from two dollars worth of material, while their parents slept. Writing the note with their pen and paper.

If they were intruders, then they're resourseful, cunning, deadly, and have many resources you can't see because they never showed them to you.

funny they've never surfaced again..

 

[Ames]

You're totally underestimating the person or persons who would be the intruders. If it was intruders, then they got away with murder on a 6 year old. That despite leaving a handwritten note. And did so with a weapon that they made from two dollars worth of material, while their parents slept. Writing the note with their pen and paper.

If they were intruders, then they're resourseful, cunning, deadly, and have many resources you can't see because they never showed them to you.[/quote]

Holdon, that still doesn't explain how they would have seen in that dark house. And WHY would an intruder turn on the Butler Kitchen light? He sure was brave....but, that light was off the next morning...so, whoever turned it on, also turned it off....so, if the intruder was using it to see by, then the minute that he turned it off, it was useless...and he STILL had to see to get out of the house. Try turning off all of your lights in your home...at night...and then try finding your way around. It will be hard....BUT, you have the advantage of knowing where things are that you could possibly run into. BUT...an intruder wouldn't.

 

[Ames]

the RN says 'the 2 gentlemen watching over your daughter' implies that the author is not one of them,that in fact,there are 3 of them in the 'SFF'..the ones JR was trying to set up in the note.

GOOD CATCH...man you're good. I had never picked up on that before...of course, I knew the minute that I heard about that long RN, that it was a fake, and written by one of the parents.. so I never really have studied it.

 

[Ames]

funny they've never surfaced again..

You would think that they would have killed other daughters of "fat cat" businessmen...that they were jealous of.

 

[JMO8778]

'JonBenet' by Steve Thomas,hardback,p. 290 (Lou Smit's theory):

The attacker struck her on the head,possibly with the black flashlight.The panicked intruder fled through the basement window,taking the remaining cord,duct tape and stun gun with him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess the flashlight walked back upstairs by itself.
I'll say a word here...WORD: the IDI's and RST will try to say that ST lied...that's always their excuse.But they're the ones doing the twisting...
When you have to say a word b/f the fact,that says a lot,IMO.I remember having to do that when my kids were little...'hey,behave yourselves when we go in here'...it seems the same for a lot of IDI's and RST theorists.JMO so I hope that doesn't get deleted.

 

[Ames]

'JonBenet' by Steve Thomas,hardback,p. 290 (Lou Smit's theory):

The attacker struck her on the head,possibly with the black flashlight.The panicked intruder fled through the basement window,taking the remaining cord,duct tape and stun gun with him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess the flashlight walked back upstairs by itself.
I'll say a word here...WORD: the IDI's and RST will try to say that ST lied...that's always their excuse.But they're the ones doing the twisting...
When you have to say a word b/f the fact,that says a lot,IMO.I remember having to do that when my kids were little...'hey,behave yourselves when we go in here'...it seems the same for a lot of IDI's and RST theorists.JMO so I hope that doesn't get deleted.

Funny how he leaves out his theory of how the flashlight made it back upstairs. I am with you...it must have walked...or sprouted wings and flew back up....cleaned itself and its batteries off...and then placed itself on the counter...

 

[JMO8778]

GOOD CATCH...man you're good. I had never picked up on that before...of course, I knew the minute that I heard about that long RN, that it was a fake, and written by one of the parents.. so I never really have studied it.

go back and study it again sometime,if you have the time.it's the most fascinating thing about this case,IMO.I love picking it apart and trying to figure out what their original intentions were,and how they did it.I think Patsy gave that away in DOI when she told how she and JR merged the 2 liturgies into one.(that's the one that contained the words 'and hence').Coincidence? I think not.
Jeff Merrick is clear that he believes he and 2 others were the target of the note,and that JR was trying to set him/them up in it.And JR did indeed try to do just that,right after he found the body,he said 'this had to be an inside job' ..and he kept pointing to Merrick many times,so that ST finally came right out and asked him: Why does John Ramsey keep bringing up your name?
The R's threw a lot of irony into the whole crime,and I think the note was no exception.I think Patsy psychically wrote it,while JR told her what to specifically point to.. I think they thought it would be harder to prove the author as being one of them if they both took part in it.
Things like 'I advise you not to provoke them' I take as JR is supposed to know who they are,but yet...he is not to call them ! (of course not,he helped write the note).
I think they also tried to buy themselves some time with it,what with the 'you will need to be rested' part (meaning stay home),and 'we will call you tomorrow' (this gives them a full 24 hrs to carry out a plan).
I do think they had planned,at first,to get her out of the house,and so the 'you will also be denied her remains for proper burial' line becomes obtuse once they decided to change course,but from the looks of the note,(the crossed out words)...there was no time left to write a new one..that one must stand.(and remember how late the 911 call came in,in accordance with their plans..they were running out of time).The line 'if we monitor you getting the money early' accounts for them being seen outside the house the next morning.
That last part where it switches to John's first name...that really does it for me...he was trying to make it appear to be someone who knew him on a first name basis...as Merrick did.As well as the 'use that good southern common sense of yours' line..Merrick knew him prior to Boulder,when he was in the south.It was just a little trick to throw in to point to him,IMO.
As far as the 'you are not the only fat cat around' (IOW-fear me,fear me!)...I think that was an attempt to say that Merrick himself was trying to appear to be a threat to him,as he'd made a comment in the past that he was going to 'bring John Ramsey down to his knees'.And JR pointed out that JM had made threats about him when he got fired.
In short,I think Merrick and friends were just quick,convenient ppl to point to since they'd been upset with him over his co.,and JR tried to use that to his advantage in the note, in trying to find someone(s) outside the home to pin the murder on.
I think the RN has been overanalyzed to some degree,take it more literally and you can see directly where they were going with this.
I disagree w. Andrew Hodges,in that he even said the note had something to do w. Patsy's cancer;I think that's just taking it too far....a good stretch of the imagination far...they put every word and line in the note to point to someone,as an excuse for something,or to buy themselves some time.

 

[Ames]

go back and study it again sometime,if you have the time.it's the most fascinating thing about this case,IMO.I love picking it apart and trying to figure out what their original intentions were,and how they did it.I think Patsy gave that away in DOI when she told how she and JR merged the 2 liturgies into one.(that's the one that contained the words 'and hence').Coincidence? I think not.
Jeff Merrick is clear that he believes he and 2 others were the target of the note,and that JR was trying to set him/them up in it.And JR did indeed try to do just that,right after he found the body,he said 'this had to be an inside job' ..and he kept pointing to Merrick many times,so that ST finally came right out and asked him: Why does John Ramsey keep bringing up your name?
The R's threw a lot of irony into the whole crime,and I think the note was no exception.I think Patsy psychically wrote it,while JR told her what to specifically point to.. I think they thought it would be harder to point to just one person if they both took part in it.
Things like 'I advise you not to provoke them' I take as JR is supposed to know who they are,but yet...he is not to call them ! (of course not,he helped write the note).
I think they also tried to buy themselves some time with it,what with the 'you will need to be rested' part(meaning stay home),and 'we will call you tomorrow' (this gives them a full 24 hrs to carry out a plan).
I do think they had planned,at first,to get her out of the house,and so the 'you will also be denied her remains for proper burial' line becomes obtuse once they decided to change course,but from the looks of the note,(the crossed out words)...there was no time left to write a new one..that one must stand.(and remember how late the 911 call came in,in accordance with their plans..they were running out of time).The line 'if we monitor you getting the money early' accounts for them being seen outside the house the next morning.
That last part where it switches to John's first name...that really does it for me...he was trying to make it appear to be someone who knew him on a first name basis...as Merrick did.As well as the 'use that good southern common sense of yours' line..Merrick knew him prior to Boulder,when he was in the south.It was just a little trick to throw in to point to him,IMO.
As far as the 'you are not the only fat cat around' (IOW-fear me,fear me!)...I think that was an attempt to say that Merrick himself was trying to appear to be a threat to him,as he'd made a comment in the past that he was going to 'bring John Ramsey down to his knees'.And JR pointed out that JM had made threats about him when he got fired.
In short,I think Merrick and friends were just quick,convenient ppl to point to since they'd been upset with him over his co.,and JR tried to use that to his advantage in the note,and in trying to find someone(s) outside the home to pin the murder on.
I think the RN has been overanalyzed to some degree,take it more literally and you can see directly where they were going with this.
I disagree w. Andrew Hodges,in that he even said the note had something to do w. Patsy's cancer;I think that's just taking it too far....a good stretch of the imagination far...they put every word and line in the note to point to someone,as an excuse for something,or to buy themselves some time.

Great post!! I agree with all of it....they also tried so hard to point the finger AWAY from themselves...that they rambled on and on and on. A RN which should have been just a few lines turned into almost three pages, of them trying to point the finger elsewhere. Which made them look even MORE suspicious. I agree with you...I think that its obvious that John tried to point the finger at JM. I have read an interview with him...and he thinks that too, just as you said. I had forgotten that it was him and TWO others that he was trying to set up...and I didn't put that together with the RN...."two gentlemen are watching over her"...or whatever the heck it said....two gentlemen watching over her, obviously means that there were three people supposedly involved. The author of the note...as you said previously...would have been the third person. GEEZ...why didn't I catch that before? Its quite obvious...duhhhhh

 

[JMO8778]

I was just looking through my books,and there are 2 reasons I think Patsy was the one that manually strangled JB and inflicted the head wound (remember Dr Spitz says she was manually strangled with a shirt collar first) ...the first is that she said she 'had flashbacks of JonBenet screaming',and the other is what she says in DOI,pprback,p. 122 (emphasis in italics mine):

Sitting in her car on the way to the Dr's office,frightening thoughts started racing through my mind.Almost as if JonBenet's death were occurring for the first time,the terror and horror of what had happened settled over me.My heart pounded like a bass drum booming away inside my chest.The thump-thump kept increasing,and I fought to breathe.As if someone were strangling me,I desperately gasped for air.I kept thinking "I've lost my daughter,who killed my child?" The fierce reality of it all came crashing down,and a panic attack swallowed me.

______________________________________________________________

There's her flashback,right there.
Not just a panic attack,as she states.
It's almost as if she'd stepped outside herself when she said it..and she saw herself doing it,but was helpless to stop it.
I think she projected JB's strangling and gasping for air onto herself.

edited to add: third reason would be what appears to be Patsy's ring marks on JB..the abrasions Dr Spitz says were caused by knuckles when her shirt collar was being twisted around her neck.(which I'm guessing was the red turtleneck,for several reasons).

 

[JMO8778]

Great post!! I agree with all of it....they also tried so hard to point the finger AWAY from themselves...that they rambled on and on and on. A RN which should have been just a few lines turned into almost three pages, of them trying to point the finger elsewhere. Which made them look even MORE suspicious.

exactly! I was trying to think,how would I write a ransom note,(not that I would do that,I wouldn't),but if I did,how would I write it? I'd be short and to the point: got your kid.1 mill gets her back.will call.
and that's it.

 

[Ames]

exactly! I was trying to think,how would I write a ransom note,(not that I would do that,I wouldn't),but if I did,how would I write it? I'd be short and to the point: got your kid.1 mill gets her back.will call.
and that's it.

Yep, that's how 99 % of ransom notes are written...short and to the point. And not trying to make it point to a certain person or group, so much that it ends up being almost three pages long!!

 

[philamena]

Honey that 3 page ransom note, aka the War and Peace of all ransom notes, is one powerful piece of evidence that points to the parents......not an intruder. Besides whose ever heard of a kidnapping note that was written when the person wasn't kidnapped????

 

[Ames]

Honey that 3 page ransom note, aka the War and Peace of all ransom notes, is one powerful piece of evidence that points to the parents......not an intruder. Besides whose ever heard of a kidnapping note that was written when the person wasn't kidnapped????[/quote]

Not me!! Except for JB...this case is in a class all by itself. And, IMO..there is a reason for that. You either have one or the other....a ransom note, with a missing person......or NO ransom note...with a dead body still in the house.....it can't be both ways, and be believable.

 

[JMO8778]

Honey that 3 page ransom note, aka the War and Peace of all ransom notes, is one powerful piece of evidence that points to the parents......not an intruder. Besides whose ever heard of a kidnapping note that was written when the person wasn't kidnapped????[/quote]

Not me!! Except for JB...this case is in a class all by itself. And, IMO..there is a reason for that. You either have one or the other....a ransom note, with a missing person......or NO ransom note...with a dead body still in the house.....it can't be both ways, and be believable.

right on,both of you.I don't know how on earth the R's or their supporters can think that no one should be able to see straight through it.It's as clear as a bell.JR should hang his head in shame on that stupid note.And for that matter,crawl underneath a rock somewhere.