IL IL - Nancy O'Sullivan, 15, South Holland, 7 March 1974

[Sarah]

A little more information here :

The link to that South Town Star article from above (http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/.../2086711,030710HMWDmissing.article)
is no longer active, but I've found a copy of the article and it gives a small amount of detail about the boys (snipped and BBM)

http://www.myspace.com/maelstrom5/photos/42372210

The Southtown Star
BY JOHN K. RYAN
March 7, 2010

. . . O'Sullivan later discovered Nancy got a ride from Chicago Heights to the home of her friends Greg and Neil Smith, who lived next door to the South Holland house the 11 O'Sullivan children and their parents lived in until they moved to Homewood in the early 1970s.

"I asked her to call me, but the next phone call I got was from Greg Smith, who wanted me to come get the purse he said Nancy left there," O'Sullivan recalled.

Smith told O'Sullivan that Nancy had left their house earlier and was picked up by someone in a car in the 1300 block of 168th Place . . .

. . . Homewood police Detective Sgt. David Owens said there was no foul play initially reported, including with the Smith family.

Greg and Neil have been dead for about 20 years, as have their parents, leaving only their youngest brother, Brian, around to talk to.

"He was only an 8-year-old and doesn't remember much from that day," Owens said . . .

 

[Sarah]

And another older South Town Star article with more information http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/star/spnews/news/22-sp9.htm. Again the original link is now inactive, but I've found a copy of the article (snipped again)

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t7492.htm

It reads to me like these two articles may be the original sources for the information on the DoeNetwork and Charley Project sites.

Thursday, December 22, 2005
By Patrick Ferrell,
The Star

. . . The O'Sullivan family was a typical South Side Irish clan with 11 siblings. In 1972, the family moved from South Holland to Homewood. On March 7, 1974, Nancy, then 15, went to visit some former friends and neighbors in South Holland. She never returned home.

Her parents reported her missing the next day; the Homewood police department has a one-page report, which says simply that Nancy went out and never returned home.

Some considered Nancy a simple runaway, but the family feels differently.

"We have always suspected some sort of foul play," Matt said.

Kathy said her sister was an attractive teen who was into boys and makeup. One of the three neighbors she went to meet had a drug problem. Another had a violent streak, she said.

The boys said Nancy left their house, "walked to the end of the driveway, put out her thumb and got into a blue Cadillac," according to Kathy.
It's a plausible story (Kathy admits the siblings were prone to running away for a few days at a time). But the story loses some credibility when one considers Nancy's purse was left at the boys' home, the family says.

"She wouldn't go anywhere without her makeup or her purse," said Kathy, who now lives in Tampa Bay, Fla.

Kathy said police never interviewed any of the neighbor boys. One was later killed in an auto accident in South Holland. Another died at an early age a few years ago, Kathy said. The third is apparently living near Las Vegas, but investigators with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children have been unable to find him, Kathy said . . .

Well there's my question about whether it was those particular boys with the drug and violence problem answered.

Also a strange, but quite interesting piece in that same article about a woman who thinks she recalls living in that area and having vague recollections of her father harming a child . . . unsubstantiated and doesn't quite add up though IMO.

 

[inthedark14]

A question for any local members :

What sort of area and demographic are we talking about with "the 1300 block of 168th place" in South Holland?
Are these fairly affluent and/or influential families or is this a high crime area where people would keep their mouths shut and cover for each other?
A close knit community or lots of people moving in and then moving on?

I think a feel for that sort of area and what it was like at that time might help fill in the picture a bit more.

At the time, that area was mostly middle to upper middle class people. As for the families being influential in anyway...I couldn't really say. I'm going to ask my mother if she remembers this case. Her family lived near there at the time and moved further south around the same time Nancy's family did.

 

[Claudette]

A question for any local members :

What sort of area and demographic are we talking about with "the 1300 block of 168th place" in South Holland?
Are these fairly affluent and/or influential families or is this a high crime area where people would keep their mouths shut and cover for each other?
A close knit community or lots of people moving in and then moving on?

I think a feel for that sort of area and what it was like at that time might help fill in the picture a bit more.

It is very very different now.

The south side of Chicago (including South Holland...Homewood is nice, the friend's house in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, with the cool cars, was in Homewood) was very blue collar in the 1970s, middle class to lower middle class. My mom is from this area. Typical American mid century homes and families. It was pretty close knit. I think in the 1980s, probably starting in the 1970s, it started to transition. The steel mills, which were the main source of jobs in the area, were starting to close. People were losing their jobs and not getting new ones because there weren't any. There are of course still some nice towns and areas but as a whole, the south side of Chicago is not a nice place. This is where all of the violence happens that you hear of in the news. It's very low income, very high crime now.

 

[Satch]

What I would like to know is, what if anything was in the police reports that said where Nancy was going when she visited the Smith boys? That's critical IMO to the investigation.Why would (at least according to some reports) they not be interviewed? That's just mind-boggling! Did the Smith boys know what home Nancy was going or the people she had planned to meet? It might have been others too, not just the Smith boys. Was it the Smith boys who had a drug problem and/or a violent temper?, Some other "friends" she say that day? Or the person or person with whom she got a ride? If the hitchhiking story is even true?

Was their social or political standing of the Smith family that could force a cover-up as to what happened to Nancy?, Other people she visited or planned to visit that day? Was their social or political standing with regards to whom Nancy may have been with if she got into a car? Or did Nancy just tragically accept a ride from a complete set of strangers, where the Smith's are totally innocent of any wrongdoing? If the last scenario is true, why would Nancy leave her purse at the Smith home? Her Mother stated that she never went anywhere without her purse.

Did the Smith boys take a polygraph? Results? We really need to know what communications went on between Nancy and the Smith boys in great detail that day and evening. If a polygraph were to show that they are telling the truth and they did not have the violent history spoken about, than Nancy could have either met up with other people who had a violent history, or the driver of the car in which Nancy hitchhiked turned out to be a cold-blooded killer.

However, the hitchhiking story circumstances of Nancy "being picked up at the end of her driveway" indicating she was hitchhiking don't make sense to me. It wasn't a highway or freeway, it was a driveway.

What the Smith boys know, or truthfully may not know, is essential to this case.

Satch

 

[inthedark14]

It is very very different now.

The south side of Chicago (including South Holland...Homewood is nice, the friend's house in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, with the cool cars, was in Homewood) was very blue collar in the 1970s, middle class to lower middle class. My mom is from this area. Typical American mid century homes and families. It was pretty close knit. I think in the 1980s, probably starting in the 1970s, it started to transition. The steel mills, which were the main source of jobs in the area, were starting to close. People were losing their jobs and not getting new ones because there weren't any. There are of course still some nice towns and areas but as a whole, the south side of Chicago is not a nice place. This is where all of the violence happens that you hear of in the news. It's very low income, very high crime now.

Just to quickly clarify...South Holland and Homewood are South Suburbs of Chicago. They don't actually qualify as the South Side of Chicago. The violence that you hear on the news is widespread over the City of Chicago and occasionally does happen in the suburbs as well. For example, Englewood is an embattled neighborhood on Chicago's south side.

There has been a transition of these south suburban towns since my mother, and myself grew up there. My grandparents actually moved my mother and her siblings further south (suburbs) in the early 70's because of these changes. Probably about 20-30 years after their own parents moved them out of the south side of Chicago. There are for sure some not great places in the South Suburbs...but up until the early to mid nineties, all but a few of those towns were still working middle class people with many nice and some really nice homes in the area.

Also, another quick point is that the Ferris Buller (Cameron's House) was filmed in Highland Park which is a north suburb of Chicago and far more affluent than most you'll see in the South Suburbs.

http://highlandpark.patch.com/articles/ferris-bueller-home-goes-off-the-market
http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/f/ferris.html

I'm just trying to paint a clearer picture of the area...this case really intrigues me because Nancy is only a few years younger than my mother and at that time the parallels between Nancy's family and my mother's are eerily similar. Which is why I'm waiting with bated breath for her to call me back and tell me if she remembers anything about this!

Always, MOO

 

[Claudette]

Thanks for the correction. A friend from Homewood said that house was from there but Highland Park makes sense.

My family hailed from Cal City and Munster and thinking of it now, my grandma lived there until she died in the early 90s. We still were able to visit without any concern until the mid 90s.

 

[jenstar]

Hey guys, I was trying everything I could to get some information on the brothers. IE (birth/death records) articles of the crash..anything. So far I've come up with this. And it could explain why I've put 10 hours into finding an obituary and NADA.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/LIVIN...ast+of+man+jailed+for+stealing...-a0233889557

 

[Sarah]

Thank you inthedark and Claudette for your recollactions and background information on the area.

inthedark, I'm also waiting with bated breath to see what your mum can recall.

Hey guys, I was trying everything I could to get some information on the brothers. IE (birth/death records) articles of the crash..anything. So far I've come up with this. And it could explain why I've put 10 hours into finding an obituary and NADA.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/LIVIN...ast+of+man+jailed+for+stealing...-a0233889557

:what: How spooky is that?

I'm really more of a reader than a poster, but something about this piqued my curiosity.
I had absolutely no idea that there could have been an indirect connection with Wales. Those locations in the link are practically on my doorstep!!!

 

[Satch]

Thank you inthedark and Claudette for your recollactions and background information on the area.

inthedark, I'm also waiting with bated breath to see what your mum can recall.



:what: How spooky is that?

I'm really more of a reader than a poster, but something about this piqued my curiosity.
I had absolutely no idea that there could have been an indirect connection with Wales. Those locations in the link are practically on my doorstep!!!

WOW!!!

If that GS is the same GS associated with one of the last few people to see Nancy alive, a HUGE BREAK in the case may have been uncovered!

Satch

 

[Satch]

I don't know the accuracy of the information of the report here, but I searched for "Greg Smith", Las Vegas" on Google and this came about:

http://www.intelius.com/Find-Phone-Address/Las+Vegas-NV/Greg-Smith.html.

Look at the fourth entry down. Now look at the "Related to" section. There's an alias listed as well. Very interesting!

Here is another listing from Veromi search for a Greg Smith Living in Las Vegas, second one down:

http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?f...s+Vegas&state=NV&vw=&Search=&Input=&x=39&y=12

Both show a former residence as South Holland, Illinois.

Satch

PS. No information comes up for the other brother, Neil. Did not do a search for Brian.

 

[jenstar]

I don't know the accuracy of the information of the report here, but I searched for "Greg Smith", Las Vegas" on Google and this came about:

http://www.intelius.com/Find-Phone-Address/Las+Vegas-NV/Greg-Smith.html.

Look at the fourth entry down. Now look at the "Related to" section. There's an alias listed as well. Very interesting!

Here is another listing from Veromi search for a Greg Smith Living in Las Vegas, second one down:

http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?f...s+Vegas&state=NV&vw=&Search=&Input=&x=39&y=12

Both show a former residence as South Holland, Illinois.

Satch

PS. No information comes up for the other brother, Neil.

But satch, I thought the younger brother's name was Brian..and that Greg and Neil were dead?

 

[unsinkable]

I believe these boys are the key. I can see her running to the store, mall, another friends house etc. and forgetting the purse. But heading for home? No. And BTW, where the heck were her parents letting her hitchhike? Sure it was the 70s, but my BFF had to move and we visited back and forth a few times but our parents always took us.

I don't mean this judementally at all, but if Nancy was one of 11 children, her parents might have let her have more freedom/less supervision than a child fr. a family with less kids.

JMO

 

[jenstar]

I don't mean this judementally at all, but if Nancy was one of 11 children, her parents might have let her have more freedom/less supervision than a child fr. a family with less kids.

JMO

Certain freedoms are a plus when you're a "good kid", even being a teenager. But out during a school night, as a Mom I wouldn't have tolerated it. Then again, big sister Kathy was the one who'd driven her to the neighborhood. So maybe Kathy was babysitting at the time?

 

[Satch]

But satch, I thought the younger brother's name was Brian..and that Greg and Neil were dead?

That part confuses me too. Could be the wrong Greg Smith perhaps? I saw the list of related names, South Holland, and an alias that that URL above claimed he had, along with a Neil Smith listed as a possible relative. Problem is that Greg Smith is such a common name, so it is hard to say.

Satch

 

[jenstar]

"Smith" in itself is the most common name in the U.S. But If it helps I looked for obits on both a neil/neal and a greg(ory) smith born in IL at or around 1958-1960 (DOB estimate because maybe the boys were her own age give or take a year since she was a "late" baby and couldn't have started school with the same grade. Most schools make you start a year late due to a "cut-off date).
There were no results in Ancestry.com or Local newspapers or even the Chicago Public Library. I have a feeling our boys weren't born in Illinois. As far as date of death goes; judging by the article's "dead for 20 years" I've searched dates of death from 78-83 and nothing there either.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

It could be that he knew the Greg Smith who passed. Or it could be he just went to the library and searched for obituaries of young men who had died who were roughly his age.
That article was from 2010. Wonder when he was actually finally deported and if they know where he's at now? Certainly worth calling in as a tip, IMO, of explaining to the investigator the possible tie in of witness Greg Smith to pseudo Greg Smith with a criminal record.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Another article with a little more. Sinister dude, for sure. She seems to think he was from Mass. Wonder what did happen to his first wife???

http://weeklyhubris.com/“greg-lloyd-smith-william-victor-bernson-iii-aka-legion”/

 

[jenstar]

Holy Scandal! I'd have NEVER thought this would have opened a can of worms this big. :O
I just wanted to let you guys know, I had no clue. I've been working on a time line of disappearances and cross referencing certain demographics to see if there was a pattern. ALOT of girls went missing..and the two cases that DO describe a "Big Blue Car" or a "Late 60's to early 70's Cadillac"..are TWO missing five year olds..
But it seems almost impossible since they're not the same TYPE of victim..and they occur so far apart geographically. I'm working on narrowing down just the "teenagers" in the "midwestern U.S."
We can either follow the car lead..or go with narrowing it down. (?)
At this point I'm kinda stuck because the description of the car is almost uncanny (which they also include a description of the perp) I mean do you think, that IF there in fact was a blue Caddy, that he would just jump the age range? I dunno.

 

[jenstar]

It could be that he knew the Greg Smith who passed. Or it could be he just went to the library and searched for obituaries of young men who had died who were roughly his age.


I wish I knew where he found that obituary. LOL
But if Psuedo GS is as good as everyone thinks he is, do you think he could have wiped the obituary out of the records to fully assume the identity?