IL IL - Richard Griener, 13, Pekin, 17 Jan 1972

[STANDREID]

Of course his probable routes home would depend on the last hill he sledded. There are several hills that could be used for sledding in the park or near the park.

 

[dogperson]

This case makes me think of Richard http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Klitch-12-Grandview-Heights-Ohio-June-28-1971 due to the nearby railroad tracks. But this other young man's body was found.

 

[STANDREID]

This case makes me think of Richard http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Klitch-12-Grandview-Heights-Ohio-June-28-1971 due to the nearby railroad tracks. But this other young man's body was found.

There are several parallels -Thanks.

 

[momrids6]

I don't know how well the roads had been cleared but, if they were still snow covered, any blood would have stood out like a beacon.

and, In 1972, cars were heavy, and steel. For example, an AMC Gremlin weighed over 3000 pounds.

 

[STANDREID]

and, In 1972, cars were heavy, and steel. For example, an AMC Gremlin weighed over 3000 pounds.

Yes, virtually all cars back then had steel bumpers, often with big protruding bumper guards.

 

[STANDREID]

You actually jacked the car up by the bumper then rather than having to lay in the dirt and feel for some hidden notch like you do now.

 

[STANDREID]

Of course his probable routes home would depend on the last hill he sledded. There are several hills that could be used for sledding in the park or near the park.

There aren't any really big hills actually in the park that I can think of but there is at least one adjacent to it and I think it's the big sledding hill, at least now.

 

[dogperson]

Did we ever determine if his sled was found or not? I was having the creepy thought that maybe someone in the neighborhood lured him into their house, then concealed the sled afterwards in the house or in a shed. I am trying to think how or why someone would lure him into their car, sled and all.

 

[STANDREID]

I don't think the sled was ever found.

 

[STANDREID]

Mark Helmig, 9, of Pekin was found murdered, most likely by Guatney, in 1976 so that might be the source of some confusion. I think perhaps it was Mark's jacket that was found (while he was still missing) before his body was discovered in a railroad car some days later.

 

[Satch]

Sadly,

I think it is possible Richard could have been a Guatney victim as Charley Project suggests:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/griener_richard.html

Who was abducted about 200 yards away? That is so frightening!

Has anyone been able to account for Guatney's whereabouts in January of 1972? I learned that several of his victims were found near railroad tracks. Richard had to cross railroad tracks to get to the hill. Guatney was a suspect in Mark Helmig's murder. (And many other missing kids throughout the Southwest.) Here is information about Guatney:

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/guatney-william.htm

Did Guatney ever talk about Richard Griener? I know it has been said that Guatney murdered during summer months. However, I don't think weather is a good predictor for when a serial killer may strike.

Satch

 

[STANDREID]

I haven't heard that Guatney ever made a statement regarding Griener nor do I know if his whereabouts were determined for the time in question. They must not have been or he would have been eliminated.

 

[Satch]

I haven't heard that Guatney ever made a statement regarding Griener nor do I know if his whereabouts were determined for the time in question. They must not have been or he would have been eliminated.

If we take away that Guatney only killed in summer months belief, we have to at least consider him a suspect. Can't rule him out unless we can prove he was not near the area when Richard left in January 1972. Standreid, do you know who was abducted only about 200 yards away? Or was a name never released in that instance?

Satch

 

[STANDREID]

I would guess it was Mark Helmig.

 

[STANDREID]

As best I can tell, Guatney usually worked in some sort of temporary job so I guess I would wonder what that would be in Illinois during January.

 

[dogperson]

I think of Richard often; he vanished on my birthday, plus I always think of him on snowy winter days. I think if Guatney was not involved then it could well have been someone in the community. When Guatney travelled, did he stay in boarding houses, hotels, or what? I need to refresh my memory on his habits. If he enticed or forced Richard to wherever he was staying, it would need to be someplace private enough that nobody would notice anything suspicious.

 

[STANDREID]

Guatney sometimes went to homeless shelters. Beyond that, I think he stayed in places like barns and boxcars or just slept rough.

 

[RevSchmidtke]

Richard William Griener, 13, of Pekin, IL disappeared while out sledding on January 17 of 1972. He was last seen on a sledding hill in a local park. It is presumed that he has been murdered but no remains have been found.

Those are the basics. I will add some additional remembrances, facts and conjectures in a following post.

I was Helen Griener's pastor for 4 years in Marshall, MO. Shortly before her death, she spoke to me about her son's disappearance. Her husband had forbidden her to talk about it. He did not want them to be known as the couple with the missing son. He and the younger sister are still alive.

 

[STANDREID]

Thanks Reverend - that's very interesting.

 

[RevSchmidtke]

Yes, I conducted the funeral service.