IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Justice for Libby and Abby!

 

[TL4S]

The timing of NMcL's motion to amend charges has me curious. I'm not convinced there's any new relevant evidence or anything like that. Maybe this is something he was planning for awhile, but he saved it for a time when he was concerned about the D filing for a speedy trial. It doesn't have to mean NMcL isn't ready for trial, but there might be a good reason for waiting, either for him or the judge. Perhaps this added pressure will slow the D down, open more doors for pleading, etc. IDK.

 

[susiQ]

The timing of NMcL's motion to amend charges has me curious. I'm not convinced there's any new relevant evidence or anything like that. Maybe this is something he was planning for awhile, but he saved it for a time when he was concerned about the D filing for a speedy trial. It doesn't have to mean NMcL isn't ready for trial, but there might be a good reason for waiting, either for him or the judge. Perhaps this added pressure will slow the D down, open more doors for pleading, etc. IDK.

I tend to agree. I don’t for a minute believe there’s any new evidence, although I’m sure NMcL would like us believe there is. Not buying it. NMcL has held onto this little “bomb” for a strategic play to slow things down if he felt things might accelerate too quickly, like in the event the old D were reinstated, which they were. I don’t believe he’s ready for trial, never was and it has him shaking in his boots. JMHO

 

[TL4S]

I tend to agree. I don’t for a minute believe there’s any new evidence, although I’m sure NMcL would like us believe there is. Not buying it. NMcL has held onto this little “bomb” for a strategic play to slow things down if he felt things might accelerate too quickly, like in the event the old D were reinstated, which they were. I don’t believe he’s ready for trial, never was and it has him shaking in his boots. JMHO

I don't know if NMcL is ready for trial, but I'm thinking it's not great for his case to have all these issues with the prison system and such, so if the evidence can speak for itself, then he might well want to get on with it. OTOH, I do NOT think the judge is anywhere near ready. So it might be in NMcL's favor to give her more time. IDK...I'm just tossing the idea around.

It is so crucial to get this right. Unless this becomes a DP case, there is no room for bargaining. And even if it does become a DP case and he pleads, no matter what murder charges he pleads to, he will live the rest of his life in prison, IMO. His only chance, if convicted, is through appeals, which the system has left a lot of doors ajar for. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen faces 4 new charges. Why that matters​

MSN

The distinction between the two types of murders is that murder in the commission of a felony accuses Allen of kidnapping 14-year-old Libby and 13-year-old Abby, forcing them off of the trails east of Delphi near the Monon High Bridge, and in the process of the kidnapping, the girls were killed. Under that charge, prosecutors wouldn't necessarily have to prove Allen was the actual killer.
The charges of murder filed Thursday accuse Allen of the act of killing the girls on Feb. 13, 2017, on the banks of the Deer Creek, about a quarter of a mile east of the Monon High Bridge.

 

[photographer4]

I was just kinda wondering, surely RA isn't the only prisoner to have encountered staff at the corrections facility who present with Odin symbols etc? Have any other prisoners in facilities out there raised any issues over being fearful of / intimidated by such guards or staff? Or are we only hearing these allegations in this case because of the possible ties to the Odins given the crime scene?

 

[arielilane]

Last night on #Banfield:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748359724083335514

Delphi murder Supreme Court hearing was 'unusual': Bob Motta | Banfield​

The Indiana Supreme Court reinstated Richard Allen’s original defense team after they were removed from his case last fall. Arguments were heard Thursday, but Allen, the man charged with the 2017 killings of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi, Indiana, was not present. "Defense Diaries” podcast host Bob Motta was at the hearing. He joins "Banfield" with details.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The interest in RA getting the death penalty sent me on a search. This case has so many surprises that it's hard to say what McL will do. MOO Maybe he'll seek the DP just to show he means business? They don't even much luck in getting cop killers sentenced to death.

Snips from the article:
"With no executions in more than a decade and no new death sentences since 2014, Indiana’s costly death penalty has reached a “de facto moratorium,” says Indiana Capital Chronicle editor-in-chief Niki Kelly. “
Over the last decade, Indiana prosecutors have sought the death penalty six time in cases involving the killing of a police officer. None of those cases resulted in a death sentence."

Commentary: Indiana Death Penalty — Expensive, Unreliable, and Withering on the Vine

With no executions in more than a decade and no new death sentences since 2014, Indiana ’s costly death penalty has reached a “de facto moratorium,” says…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

I went through some of the cases we have covered and are covering; only 2 have asked for the DP.
Police officers killed by the following:
Jason Brown had a DP request but received 58 years.
Orlando Mitchell has a DP request (no trial yet)
Eddie Jones: ran down a police officer (no trial yet, no DP yet)

Others who have killed multiple people but no DP requests:
Cohen B Hancz-Barron: 4 murdered (sentenced)
Lemere Jones: 3 murdered (sentenced)
Raymond Childs: 6 murdered (no trial yet)
Malik Halfacre: 4 murdered (no trial yet)

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner update for Westerman if you're interested:

01/18/2024	Pretrial Conference Session: 01/18/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B. Result: Commenced and concluded
01/19/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Pretrial Conference scheduled for 03/07/2024 at 1:30 PM.
01/19/2024	Hearing Journal Entry State appears by Deputy Prosecutor. Defendant appears in person and by counsel. Defendant sworn. Cause is continued on Defense request and is reset for Pretrial Hearing on March 7, 2024 at 1:30 p.m., Final Pretrial on April 4, 2024 at 1:30 p.m. and Trial by Jury on May 14, 2024 at 8:30 a.m. Defendant is ordered to appear at all hearings. cd Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
03/07/2024	Pretrial Conference Session: 03/07/2024 1:30 PM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
04/04/2024	Final PreTrial Hearing/Conference Session: 04/04/2024 1:30 PM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
05/14/2024	Jury Trial Session: 05/14/2024 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.

 

[Niner]

@Niner update for Westerman if you're interested:

01/18/2024	Pretrial Conference Session: 01/18/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B. Result: Commenced and concluded
01/19/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Pretrial Conference scheduled for 03/07/2024 at 1:30 PM.
01/19/2024	Hearing Journal Entry State appears by Deputy Prosecutor. Defendant appears in person and by counsel. Defendant sworn. Cause is continued on Defense request and is reset for Pretrial Hearing on March 7, 2024 at 1:30 p.m., Final Pretrial on April 4, 2024 at 1:30 p.m. and Trial by Jury on May 14, 2024 at 8:30 a.m. Defendant is ordered to appear at all hearings. cd Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
03/07/2024	Pretrial Conference Session: 03/07/2024 1:30 PM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
04/04/2024	Final PreTrial Hearing/Conference Session: 04/04/2024 1:30 PM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
05/14/2024	Jury Trial Session: 05/14/2024 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.

I am not keeping track of this guy. Sorry!

 

[TL4S]

The interest in RA getting the death penalty sent me on a search. This case has so many surprises that it's hard to say what McL will do. MOO Maybe he'll seek the DP just to show he means business? They don't even much luck in getting cop killers sentenced to death.

Snips from the article:
"With no executions in more than a decade and no new death sentences since 2014, Indiana’s costly death penalty has reached a “de facto moratorium,” says Indiana Capital Chronicle editor-in-chief Niki Kelly. “
Over the last decade, Indiana prosecutors have sought the death penalty six time in cases involving the killing of a police officer. None of those cases resulted in a death sentence."

Commentary: Indiana Death Penalty — Expensive, Unreliable, and Withering on the Vine

With no executions in more than a decade and no new death sentences since 2014, Indiana ’s costly death penalty has reached a “de facto moratorium,” says…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

I went through some of the cases we have covered and are covering; only 2 have asked for the DP.
Police officers killed by the following:
Jason Brown had a DP request but received 58 years.
Orlando Mitchell has a DP request (no trial yet)
Eddie Jones: ran down a police officer (no trial yet, no DP yet)

Others who have killed multiple people but no DP requests:
Cohen B Hancz-Barron: 4 murdered (sentenced)
Lemere Jones: 3 murdered (sentenced)
Raymond Childs: 6 murdered (no trial yet)
Malik Halfacre: 4 murdered (no trial yet)

Yeah...I just don't see the purpose in pursuing the DP. If 50 year old RA is convicted, on any one of the charges, he will likely never get out of prison before he dies. Even if it became a DP case and he pleads, he's still not going to get a sentence light enough to benefit him, IMO. Most probably he'll face multiple convictions and consecutive sentences, each with 45 - 65 years, or whatever. There's not much room in that, IMO.

IANAL, so maybe I'm missing something big, but I see a DP case as spent time and money for a very similar outcome. Now, if it's a power play, setting precedence, or something like that, okay, but is the end result really worth it? I guess that's a question for NMcL. IDK.

 

[TL4S]

So now I'm really curious what AB and BR plan to do next. I don't think anything will be decided until the SCOIN's full explanation for their ruling comes out, because that will matter, but then what? If they want to file for a speedy trial, then I don't think they'll file for recusal of JG...that would take too long. Plus, I don't think she's ready for trial, so that might give them the upper-hand. She might even recuse herself on that basis. IDK. Do they adopt the new ex-D's motion to have RA moved out of Wabash? Do they file something against the amended charges motion? I think the next month or two could be very busy. JMO.

 

[photographer4]

So now I'm really curious what AB and BR plan to do next. I don't think anything will be decided until the SCOIN's full explanation for their ruling comes out, because that will matter, but then what? If they want to file for a speedy trial, then I don't think they'll file for recusal of JG...that would take too long. Plus, I don't think she's ready for trial, so that might give them the upper-hand. She might even recuse herself on that basis. IDK. Do they adopt the new ex-D's motion to have RA moved out of Wabash? Do they file something against the amended charges motion? I think the next month or two could be very busy. JMO.

How would a judge not be ready for trial? Are there laws or things she would need to consult / review before hearing this matter? What would she need to do in order to be prepared for this trial?

 

[TL4S]

How would a judge not be ready for trial? Are there laws or things she would need to consult / review before hearing this matter? What would she need to do in order to be prepared for this trial?

Because she has an extremely full docket being in Allen Co. At the Oct. in-chambers hearing, she had not even finished reading the Frank's memorandum and/or attached exhibits. Now she is also the Administrative Judge for the Criminal Division. On top of that, she recently had some unknown health issues that put her in the hospital. So through no fault of her own, she might simply not have the time to keep up with the enormity of this case in addition to her other duties. This is JMO, of course, and I'm sure if she has to, she can handle it, but not being rushed into doing it in 70 days would probably be preferable to her. JMO.

 

[photographer4]

Because she has an extremely full docket being in Allen Co. At the Oct. in-chambers hearing, she had not even finished reading the Frank's memorandum and/or attached exhibits. Now she is also the Administrative Judge for the Criminal Division. On top of that, she recently had some unknown health issues that put her in the hospital. So through no fault of her own, she might simply not have the time to keep up with the enormity of this case in addition to her other duties. This is JMO, of course, and I'm sure if she has to, she can handle it, but not being rushed into doing it in 70 days would probably be preferable to her. JMO.

I would hope that she began reading and making notes on whatever she had yet to read the moment she knew the SCION was hearing the case regarding choice of counsel! It is grossly unfair to RA (whether he is guilty or innocent) to have to spend month more waiting for his matter to be heard when it should have been before the courts right around now!! HOpefully if she does end up staying on and not recusing herself then she can have this back on track for ASAP - I see no reason why it couldn't proceed in Spring - am I crazy?