IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[OldSteve]

Snipped:

Another holiday passes and the next milestone is the end of the semester and graduation for some. Doesn't it seem like just yesterday that we were all abuzz about all the boys returning in fall?!

Yes! Times flies by. I would have thought if any of the POI's were involved something would have been picked up by the PI's by now... but maybe it was a case of extreme luck for them, otherwise I'm thinking something random, or crime of opportunity... (Doesn't leave much else, unless you believe in alien abduction :beamup: )

 

[Mophebius]

Snipped:


Yes! Times flies by. I would have thought if any of the POI's were involved something would have been picked up by the PI's by now... but maybe it was a case of extreme luck for them, otherwise I'm thinking something random, or crime of opportunity... (Doesn't leave much else, unless you believe in alien abduction :beamup: )

I respectfully disagree with this likely being a random abduction or crime of opportunity. I have posted several times about this on here. I believe that LE has the right POI's, in all likelyhood there's probably more likely 2 or 3 unamed suspects that BPD have been zeroed in on for quite sometime now. I believe that the fact that we haven't had an arrest or arrests in this case as of yet has vastly more to do with a lack of body (tangible forensic evidence), motive and or issues of provability without a body in the case, than it has to do with a complete lack of direction by investigator's. Pretty hard to derive new information though from people who are stone-walling behind high priced legal council.


Now I am not a detective, nor a prosecutor, or any kind of expert when it comes to such things, but based on what we know of the nights events, timing, circumstances, unique variables and probability. I would say that there is a very very slim chance that this was done by a complete stanger/ random abduction senario, maybe about a 1 percent chance that the perp/perps isn't already known to LE and investigators, but as with any case of this nature they are notoriously difficult to solve without a body or clear tangible evidence.

Regardless of any of this, lets hope for a break in the case and closure for the friends and family soon!

Happy Easter Lauren!

 

[OldSteve]

snipped:

I respectfully disagree with this likely being a random abduction or crime of opportunity.....

Enjoyed reading your thoughts on this!
Problem I have with the POI's is motive, though something accidental could have happened.
The majority of abductions involve sex, especially when there is no husband involved in a divorce, control freak boyfriend, etc....

 

[Jacobite]

I really wanted to believe the POI's were innocent. But, they refused to sit down with Lauren's parents. This was so cruel that it has made them look suspicious. And, yes they do have motive. Lauren Spierer was moving on with her life and was telling a whole group of people good-bye. JEALOUSY, Lauren had some real connections. She was majoring in fashion for a reason. It was no joke. I promise she was not going to be working in the women's clothing department at Walmart. She was reaching for the top and was going to make it. Now, I can't say for sure that all the fighting and drama that went on the last 2 weeks before June 3 has anything to do with her disappearance? But, it just might.
I hope her family finds the answers very soon and that Lauren gets to go home and those responsible for this go to prison for a long time.

 

[Darcyline]

Motive is a tricky thing for me. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and there is also no way to know if one of them is a closet psycho. Not every person with violent or sadistic tendencies shows it especially since all the POIs (at least that we know of) are really young. This isn't a 55 year old that may have suddenly snapped, but 18-22 year olds.
But, of course, there could be some other circumstances that may have led to this happening without the person necessarily being a sadistic psychopath. We just don't know and both types of cases have happened before.

Mildly graphic content in this next part so skip if you want
I think most people have eliminated this as a possibility, but I still think it is possible she ODed and the perp didn't speak up because he gave her drugs, he roofied her, and/or they had sex so he knew it was or would look like rape. I think most people think a man would just call the cops or an ambulance in that situation, but it may look differently to a young 20 something guy who has just sold cocaine, roofied someone, and/or had sex with her right before she died. I would actually LOVE to eliminate this possibility because it literally makes me that angry to think about, but I still think it is one possibility among many.

 

[imkeylime]

Motive is a tricky thing for me. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and there is also no way to know if one of them is a closet psycho. Not every person with violent or sadistic tendencies shows it especially since all the POIs (at least that we know of) are really young. This isn't a 55 year old that may have suddenly snapped, but 18-22 year olds.
But, of course, there could be some other circumstances that may have led to this happening without the person necessarily being a sadistic psychopath. We just don't know and both types of cases have happened before.

Mildly graphic content in this next part so skip if you want
I think most people have eliminated this as a possibility, but I still think it is possible she ODed and the perp didn't speak up because he gave her drugs, he roofied her, and/or they had sex so he knew it was or would look like rape. I think most people think a man would just call the cops or an ambulance in that situation, but it may look differently to a young 20 something guy who has just sold cocaine, roofied someone, and/or had sex with her right before she died. I would actually LOVE to eliminate this possibility because it literally makes me that angry to think about, but I still think it is one possibility among many.

Sometimes (including now) I wonder if the perp here isn't someone once removed, i.e., someone who knew the primary POIs but isn't one. For example, maybe someone in the group who accosted CR at SW wasn't doing it on JW's behalf, but because he himself was interested in LS. If that was the case, that person might have ended up at 5 North, wondering what LS was doing with CR, and waited. I realize this is speculative, but I still wonder what the motivation behind the fight at SW was all about. Did someone dislike CR because he cheated someone out of $$$, for example, or because he was hitting on LS? I've heard rumors of the latter, but why not just call JW if it was about LS and him?

 

[imkeylime]

Another holiday passes and the next milestone is the end of the semester and graduation for some. Doesn't it seem like just yesterday that we were all abuzz about all the boys returning in fall?!

:seeya: Hi back to you...hope you're having a fine springtime.

Thanks, Jupiter! The same to you! I can't believe the semester is almost over. I just got back from visiting my son at college. We took him an Easter bunny, LOL. There was a flyer in the dorm lobby about an upcoming program on violence against women. He said his campus is pretty safe. And for a guy, it probably is.

I struggle with the thought that this was a random abduction. It seems like too much luck for a perv just passing through, unless hanging out at the Waffle House was a pastime or something. Wish I knew ...

 

[Darcyline]

keylime-I think that is a strong possibility. I even think LE may know about some of those people even if we don't.

 

[MonroeRes]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? Another thing, the cell phone has always bugged me. Did he offer to "hold" it for her, she kept getting texts that she didn't reply to, it would seem logical that he did something with her phone to keep her from texting her bf. I just keep going back to him, I don't think this is random, I think one of the POI's knows where she is. I hope with the amount of people mushroom hunting in the woods right now in Indiana that someone comes across something of use. Praying for LS, her family, and for everyone still thinking about her.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Motive is a tricky thing for me. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and there is also no way to know if one of them is a closet psycho. Not every person with violent or sadistic tendencies shows it especially since all the POIs (at least that we know of) are really young. This isn't a 55 year old that may have suddenly snapped, but 18-22 year olds.
But, of course, there could be some other circumstances that may have led to this happening without the person necessarily being a sadistic psychopath. We just don't know and both types of cases have happened before.

Mildly graphic content in this next part so skip if you want
I think most people have eliminated this as a possibility, but I still think it is possible she ODed and the perp didn't speak up because he gave her drugs, he roofied her, and/or they had sex so he knew it was or would look like rape. I think most people think a man would just call the cops or an ambulance in that situation, but it may look differently to a young 20 something guy who has just sold cocaine, roofied someone, and/or had sex with her right before she died. I would actually LOVE to eliminate this possibility because it literally makes me that angry to think about, but I still think it is one possibility among many.

Re: your second paragraph, I definitely still think it is possible.

" Hi" to all the new people as well as those who have been here since Lauren disappeared. I cannot believe so much time has gone by and we are still asking some of the same questions we had last summer.

 

[imkeylime]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? Another thing, the cell phone has always bugged me. Did he offer to "hold" it for her, she kept getting texts that she didn't reply to, it would seem logical that he did something with her phone to keep her from texting her bf. I just keep going back to him, I don't think this is random, I think one of the POI's knows where she is. I hope with the amount of people mushroom hunting in the woods right now in Indiana that someone comes across something of use. Praying for LS, her family, and for everyone still thinking about her.

Welcome, MonroeRes! I know the feeling (thinking about LS). I may be wrong, and if I am, please forgive me. But I think that since LS went missing early on June 3, she was reported missing later that same day, so when CR said that, it was actually the morning after (June 4) she went missing, so perhaps someone filled him in? I hope that makes sense. I keep thinking that CR knows something, though, so I understand your questioning.

It's interesting that you bring up mushroom hunting. I really thought the fall deer hunting season would yield something, at least a clue. But when mushroom hunting, one is much closer to the ground, I'm sure. So perhaps there's hope in that.

 

[Darcyline]

Welcome MonroeRes! Very happy to see new posters here especially since the thread has died down a bit!

I think the explanation for the him asking about the blonde girl was that he somehow vaguely remembered that Lauren came home with him so he expected her to be at his place in the morning. You are correct that that complicates the memory loss claim. I would give anything to be able to interview him personally. I am still not sure if LE has ever been able to interview him effectively given him getting a lawyer right away.
Of course, I know that is a legal right and doesn't indicate guilt, but it is frustrating sometimes.

 

[AbbeyR]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? <snipped for space>

Hi MonroeRes, welcome!

That question has come up here before as many of us had similar questions. It can be hard to remember/ find these posts after all this time, so here's one discussion, if you're interested:

Bessie quotes some of the articles with statements from friends and neighbours of CR/JR here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7444401&postcount=217"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26[/ame] and then it is discussed in the next couple of pages.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a clear answer. To summarize, yes: statements are odd. But, it seems that there was some sloppy reporting so it's hard to tell whether inconsistencies come from the POI or the journalists.

I have leaned toward sloppy reporting being the case for the 'little blond girl' comment (It was actually reported as FEB 4th, likely meaning JUNE 4th, but that still would have been the day after LS went missing, after people had started looking for her) It does strike me as weird either way though -- The comment seems suspicious if it occurred prior to him knowing she went missing, and flippant if it occurred after (IMO).

Another inconsistency in those 3rd hand accounts is about where CR and LS went after being recorded in the alley. Some claimed they heard that both went back to JR's. CR's official story (via MB due to the 'memory loss') is that they went to his apartment, MB put CR to bed, and then Lauren left to go to JR's alone. But even if we give MB the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a truthful and complete account: Was he up all night working on his papers, or did he go to bed? Would he have known/ heard if CR went out again? As far as I know, CR's story jumps from MB's recollection of 'putting him to bed' to waking up in the morning not remembering anything...

Since JR's account doesn't seem to include CR (at least as far as we know?) the focus turned to him quite quickly, but the Spierers' recent(ish) return to CR as a focus of interest made me wonder...

*sigh*... I was happy to see Lauren's thread bumped to the top of the page again. Still, it's discouraging that we still only have these scraps of information to turn over and over again.

 

[OldSteve]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? Another thing, the cell phone has always bugged me. Did he offer to "hold" it for her, she kept getting texts that she didn't reply to, it would seem logical that he did something with her phone to keep her from texting her bf. I just keep going back to him, I don't think this is random, I think one of the POI's knows where she is. I hope with the amount of people mushroom hunting in the woods right now in Indiana that someone comes across something of use. Praying for LS, her family, and for everyone still thinking about her.

:welcome: MonroeRes Good point about the memory loss!

 

[ellehill]

I really wanted to believe the POI's were innocent. But, they refused to sit down with Lauren's parents. This was so cruel that it has made them look suspicious. And, yes they do have motive. Lauren Spierer was moving on with her life and was telling a whole group of people good-bye. JEALOUSY, Lauren had some real connections. She was majoring in fashion for a reason. It was no joke. I promise she was not going to be working in the women's clothing department at Walmart. She was reaching for the top and was going to make it. Now, I can't say for sure that all the fighting and drama that went on the last 2 weeks before June 3 has anything to do with her disappearance? But, it just might.
I hope her family finds the answers very soon and that Lauren gets to go home and those responsible for this go to prison for a long time.

Curious, what fighting & drama are you aware of went on the last 2 weeks BEFORE she went missing? I haven't heard much other than she went to the Indy 500 w/o JW, but a lot of college kids do things like that.

 

[akh]

Why does it seem that most here don't seem to consider JW a higher level POI? Is there something known about JW that would seemingly confirm he couldn't be involved?

Whether he had means or opportunity is in question but as for motive it doesn't take speculation to make a motive connection (jealousy). For the other known PsOI it does take speculation to come up with a theory for a motive.

 

[shotgunhomicide]

Why does it seem that most here don't seem to consider JW a higher level POI? Is there something known about JW that would seemingly confirm he couldn't be involved?

It seems as if JW has escaped most of the suspicion the other POI's has (rightfully) had thrown their way. I firmly believe that he's a viable candidate that needs to be closely examined. As you said, the motive is certainly there and the means is unknowable without a body and a infallible cause of death. Currently we can't confidently say that he didn't have opportunity seeing as how we don't know LS's exact route that she would have taken after leaving JR's apartment building. Nor do we know JW's whereabouts during the window of opportunity for Lauren to be kidnapped or otherwise taken off the street without any of the numerous cameras that were running at the time. Even then, that's still assuming she left JR/CR/MB's apartment complex while she was still breathing.

I'm not saying I think he's the killer or a part of a coverup, but I still think he warrants close inspection by LE. Either way, he could probably provide LE with information about LS's encounters with her friends and enemies in the days and weeks leading up to her disappearance.

 

[Jupiter812]

I think JW is under the radar for a variety of reasons. The Spierer's have never mentioned him publicly with a grain of suspicion; in fact, if anything they seem to have support for him. If my memory is correct they said he was "suffering" (?) and I know Robert Spierer said he rec'd a Father's Day greeting from him. The video produced for Lauren's Shine Concert did not mention him either, whereas the other key POI were named and mugshots of DR, CR, JR but not MB.

Of course since there is no videotape or evidence (that we know of) of Lauren with JW that night, he manages to escape suspicion. With the motley group of guys she was with that night, there is enough drama to run circles of suspicion around them.

I agree there is no reason to get him off the hook and every reason to keep him on it. As I mentioned a while ago when the Spierer's made a signifcant public comment, they said they had not heard from JW in a long time which I find that interesting. Yes, I'm sure he's being advised to have no contact, but even no holiday greeting? That's harsh.

 

[Darcyline]

JW definitely missed out on a lot of the suspicion. I think there are several reasons for that-the Spierers' support of him while basically pointing fingers at the other POIs, the other POIs being much more dramatic (drug arrests, alcohol use, reputations), and JW being the one that actually started the ball rolling for her being reported missing. Of course, on the other side he technically does not have an firm alibi, he has a clearer source of motive, and at one point (I will try to find the link ) a local said that it was possible to walk from JR and CR's complex to JW's place and not be seen on cameras.

I feel like CR (it depends-the direction of suspicion has changed course a few times) has received the most suspicion, but oddly enough he has one of the strongest alibis on paper. By strongest I just mean cameras corroborate *supposedly* parts of the timeline and story and he has at least two other people who are corroborating as well or claiming to have interacted with Lauren AFTER CR supposedly drops out of the picture for the night.

I guess I am rambling, but it seems like there are so many puzzle pieces and some make sense, some don't, and I am frustrated because I doubt we will ever know the exact set of circumstances that led to her disappearance.

 

[monkey222]

I thought CR asked someone at a nearby convenience store in the am, if anyone had seen a blonde girl. I do not recall if being a "friend" that he asked. I think CR knew there was a hard night of partying going on, and was trying to put together the pieces, possibly knowing that if she started walking home in a clouded condition, it wouldn't be the best move, on all of their parts.